IRC log of wai-wcag on 2016-01-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:39:10 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:39:10 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-wai-wcag-irc
15:39:12 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:39:14 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:39:14 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:39:15 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:39:15 [trackbot]
Date: 26 January 2016
15:39:27 [Joshue108]
zakim, agenda?
15:39:27 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:39:28 [Zakim]
2. Survey (Items 3-5 only): https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20161stSurvey/ [from Joshue108]
15:39:28 [Zakim]
3. Github issues walkthru. https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues [from Joshue108]
15:39:39 [Joshue108]
zakim, clear agenda?
15:39:39 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
15:41:04 [Wayne]
Wayne has joined #wai-wcag
15:41:17 [Joshue108]
agenda+ • Extension document comment survey [continued / to be short!] (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Ext_req_comments/
15:41:33 [Joshue108]
agenda+ • UAAG/ATAG update.
15:41:45 [Joshue108]
agenda+ • Proposed responses to Github issues: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Jan26_2016/
15:41:57 [Joshue108]
agenda+ • Github issues walkthru. https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues
15:42:04 [Joshue108]
Chair: AWK
15:42:43 [Wayne]
scribe: Wayne
15:52:45 [AWK]
AWK has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:12 [AWK]
Zakim, agenda?
15:53:12 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:53:13 [Zakim]
1. • Extension document comment survey [continued / to be short!] (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Ext_req_comments/ [from Joshue108]
15:53:13 [Zakim]
2. • UAAG/ATAG update. [from Joshue108]
15:53:13 [Zakim]
3. • Proposed responses to Github issues: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Jan26_2016/ [from Joshue108]
15:53:14 [Zakim]
4. • Github issues walkthru. https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues [from Joshue108]
15:54:30 [Wayne]
How do I go from topic to topic and how do I keep comments out of the minutes?
16:01:16 [AWK]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:01:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
16:01:33 [AWK]
Chair: AWK
16:01:35 [AWK]
+AWK
16:01:37 [Mike_Elledge]
Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:07 [AWK]
Scribe: Wayne
16:02:41 [Wayne]
TOPIC:
16:03:14 [laura]
laura has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:34 [marcjohlic]
marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:56 [Joshue108]
present+ Joshue108
16:04:57 [Greg]
Greg has joined #wai-wcag
16:05:36 [AWK]
Agenda+ Survey for attendance: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WhenWCAG/
16:05:54 [Mike_Elledge]
+Mike Elledge
16:06:03 [Wayne]
TOPIC: Extension document comment survey [continued / to be short!]
16:06:18 [Wayne]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Ext_req_comments/
16:06:25 [adam_solomon]
adam_solomon has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:26 [yatil]
present+ EricE
16:07:09 [Sarah_Swierenga]
Sarah_Swierenga has joined #wai-wcag
16:07:40 [laura]
present+ Laura
16:08:00 [Wayne]
present+ Laura
16:08:09 [Wayne]
present+ Wayne
16:08:30 [marcjohlic]
present+ marcjohlic
16:08:30 [adam_solomon]
present+ adam_solomon
16:08:38 [Kathy]
Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:08:40 [Sarah_Swierenga]
present+ Sarah
16:08:41 [Greg]
present+ Greg_Lowney
16:08:44 [Kathy]
present +Kathy
16:08:52 [Kathy]
present+ Kathy
16:09:06 [yatil]
s/present +Kathy//
16:10:04 [AWK]
Zakir take up item 5
16:10:49 [AWK]
Zakim, take up item 5
16:10:49 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Survey for attendance: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WhenWCAG/" taken up [from AWK]
16:10:53 [yatil]
s/Zakir take up item 5//
16:11:19 [Wayne]
AWK: We have an attendance survey and it helps project.
16:11:47 [Wayne]
... please fill out the survey.
16:11:56 [AWK]
Zakim, close item 5
16:11:56 [Zakim]
agendum 5, Survey for attendance: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WhenWCAG/, closed
16:11:59 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:11:59 [Zakim]
1. • Extension document comment survey [continued / to be short!] (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Ext_req_comments/ [from Joshue108]
16:12:06 [AWK]
Zakim, next item
16:12:06 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "• Extension document comment survey [continued / to be short!] (https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Ext_req_comments/" taken up [from Joshue108]
16:13:39 [Wayne]
AWK: Have received not additional comments. Relates to people's concerns that the extensions will be optional. If we just take out the word optional we are not representing the document properly.
16:14:15 [Wayne]
... If you are working for X-corp it can make it required, but all w3 documents are optional.
16:14:33 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:14:44 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:15:49 [Wayne]
... Leaving it in represents what the document is doing. I have change my comment because it is desireable because it is accurate. Would like other peoples comments.
16:16:06 [Wayne]
+1
16:19:25 [Wayne]
Adam: I like the way David said it. Must discuss discussion. It is not optional if you do not want to conform it is optional. If you want to conform it is not optional. Standing alone optional is too ambiguous.
16:21:22 [Wayne]
Greg: Worked early on accessibility with MS, and has worked on many WGs. Now I can do it.
16:21:27 [Joshue108]
q?
16:22:42 [Wayne]
... I would vote to accept. Most is my concern giving the term optional calls out the particular document
16:23:03 [AWK]
zakim, queue?
16:23:03 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
16:23:16 [Wayne]
AWK: WCAG itself does not refer to itself as optional. Only the conformance claims are optional.
16:23:57 [Joshue108]
q+
16:24:16 [Joshue108]
ack me
16:24:17 [Wayne]
??: Extensions are opti0nal relative to WCAG 2, but not conversely.
16:25:20 [Wayne]
josh: We are not trying to hide these are option. We place it in the abstract and moved somewhere else as to how it relates to conformance.
16:25:22 [AWK]
Currently in status: "This is a First Public Working Draft of Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Extensions by the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group. It sets requirements for WCAG 2.0 extensions, optional modules that add accessibility guidance to the base of WCAG 2.0."
16:26:28 [laura]
q+
16:26:42 [Joshue108]
ack laura
16:26:46 [Wayne]
AWK: This would be the place it would appear. Speaking about approach is better approach. (David)
16:27:04 [Wayne]
Laura: Just use it verbatum.
16:27:26 [Wayne]
josh: I don't see what else it is adding.
16:27:32 [laura]
“for those who claim conformance to them.”
16:28:00 [Joshue108]
+1 to davids
16:28:10 [Joshue108]
q?
16:28:10 [Wayne]
insert the words "for those who claim conformance to them..."
16:28:19 [Wayne]
+1
16:28:20 [Greg]
+1
16:28:35 [laura]
+1
16:28:45 [AWK]
Quick try at adding: "This is a First Public Working Draft of Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Extensions by the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group. It sets requirements for WCAG 2.0 extensions, optional modules that build on the existing requirements for WCAG 2.0. Extensions are designed to work in harmony with the WCAG 2.0. standard, for those who claim conformance to them. Conformance to WCAG 2.0 by itself does not mandate conformance to these extension
16:28:48 [AWK]
s"
16:29:34 [AWK]
this one: "This is a First Public Working Draft of Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Extensions by the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group. It sets requirements for WCAG 2.0 extensions, modules that build on the existing requirements for WCAG 2.0. Extensions are designed to work in harmony with the WCAG 2.0. standard, for those who claim conformance to them. Conformance to WCAG 2.0 by itself does not mandate conformance to these extensions."
16:29:52 [Kathy]
+1
16:29:54 [adam_solomon]
Conformance to WCAG 2.0 on its own does not mandate conformance to these extensions."
16:29:55 [laura]
+1
16:29:58 [Wayne]
+1
16:30:14 [yatil]
s/Quick try at adding: "This is a First Public Working Draft of Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Extensions by the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group. It sets requirements for WCAG 2.0 extensions, optional modules that build on the existing requirements for WCAG 2.0. Extensions are designed to work in harmony with the WCAG 2.0. standard, for those who claim conformance to them. Conformance to WCAG 2.0 by itself does not mandate conformance to
16:30:14 [yatil]
these extension//
16:30:33 [Wayne]
adam: Inserts an alternative
16:30:48 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:30:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:31:22 [marcjohlic]
+1
16:31:34 [Wayne]
AWK: Are there objections?
16:31:37 [Sarah_Swierenga]
+1 like
16:31:39 [yatil]
+1 – I like it
16:31:46 [Mike_Elledge]
+1
16:31:47 [Wayne]
like
16:31:51 [Greg]
+1
16:32:18 [Wayne]
RESOLUTION: We sent this wording to the list.
16:33:00 [AWK]
Zakim, close this item
16:33:00 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
16:33:01 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:33:01 [Zakim]
2. • UAAG/ATAG update. [from Joshue108]
16:33:08 [AWK]
Zakim, next item
16:33:08 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "• UAAG/ATAG update." taken up [from Joshue108]
16:33:50 [MichaelC]
q+
16:33:58 [Wayne]
AWK: We will be talking about and will continue...
16:34:27 [MichaelC]
q-
16:35:35 [Wayne]
... We may take up UAAG and ATAG issues. There is not too much to discuss. But we may come back with topics and keep the group up to date.
16:36:22 [Wayne]
MichaelC: We need to make a considered proposal before we discuss it.
16:36:33 [AWK]
Zakim, close this item
16:36:33 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
16:36:34 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:36:34 [Zakim]
3. • Proposed responses to Github issues: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Jan26_2016/ [from Joshue108]
16:36:41 [AWK]
Zakim, next item
16:36:41 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "• Proposed responses to Github issues: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Jan26_2016/" taken up [from Joshue108]
16:38:41 [Wayne]
TOPIC: [Github ISSUE: #151] ARIA5: About jQuery code
16:40:07 [Wayne]
AWK: Feel that the draft should mention jQuery. In the live example you can see jQuery. We will not change because jQuery is not essential.
16:40:42 [Wayne]
MichealC: Our general practice without adding reason.
16:41:39 [Wayne]
MikeE: I think it may be useful when we mention something like jQuery is being used.
16:42:20 [Wayne]
AWK: In this case the example is from the open AJAX alliance. They have an example that uses jQuery in the code.
16:42:43 [AWK]
ARIA5: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA5.html
16:42:47 [Wayne]
??: Our example has jQuery in the code. That was linked, not out code.
16:43:51 [Wayne]
MichealC: There is jQuery code but it is not relevant to the technique.
16:44:33 [jamesn]
q+
16:45:48 [AWK]
ack j
16:45:57 [Joshue108]
q?
16:46:04 [Wayne]
MikeE: For people who are not experts it is important. If it uses jQuery for tasks, it is important to use the reference. It could require a lot of information.
16:46:33 [Wayne]
adam: I feel it is not a real world problem to anyone.
16:47:24 [marcjohlic]
+1
16:47:31 [marcjohlic]
q+
16:47:35 [Wayne]
AWK: My problem is the technique requires jQuery. This is to display the ARIA. It could give the wrong impression.
16:48:33 [Wayne]
.. Based on principle of not making changes when not necessary. This is more than editorial. How would you like to handle it.
16:49:24 [Wayne]
MichaelC: This person is looking for consistency.
16:50:04 [Wayne]
adam: what if that person wants this consistently could they do it.
16:51:06 [Wayne]
josh: Should we just suggest that he submit his full changes?
16:51:24 [AWK]
"Proposed response for WG: We keep the examples as simple as possible, and JQuery is not critical for the clarification of the important points in the technique, so we are not making a change at this time. Consistency of this type between techniques is good but is not an absolute requirement. If you would like to submit a pull request with specific changes we will consider them."
16:51:39 [marcjohlic]
+1
16:51:43 [laura]
+1
16:51:50 [Wayne]
+1
16:52:00 [jamesn]
+1
16:52:03 [Kathy]
+1
16:52:03 [Joshue108]
+1
16:52:07 [MichaelC]
+1
16:52:10 [Sarah_Swierenga]
+1 ok
16:52:15 [Greg]
+1
16:52:27 [yatil]
+1
16:52:30 [Mike_Elledge]
+1
16:52:48 [Wayne]
RESOLUTION: We send the wording above to the list for consensus.
16:53:51 [Wayne]
TOPIC: Github ISSUE: #150] ARIA4/5: Clarification of a user interface component
16:54:34 [AWK]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/150
16:55:23 [Wayne]
RESOLUTION: Pass the wording of the response to the list for consensus.
16:56:06 [Wayne]
TOPIC: [Github ISSUE: #148] WAI-ARIA Technology Notes: Old UA descriptions
16:56:17 [AWK]
https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/148
16:57:00 [Wayne]
AWK: Not all of our UA comments are correct. They are too old. Josh's comment discusses changes.
16:57:38 [Wayne]
AWK: This is a lot of work, to keep up with all UA.
16:58:06 [Wayne]
James: if we are to add comments, make sure mobiles are missing.
16:58:44 [Wayne]
... I am not sure if we only list the supported releases.
16:59:08 [Wayne]
MichaelC: Should we make a change or notes for an edit.
17:00:09 [Wayne]
josh: anyone with improvements could include them.
17:00:20 [jamesn]
i have lost sound
17:00:53 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
17:01:18 [Wayne]
AWK: How would WAI ARIA respond to helping us change the techniques for ARIA technology.
17:01:54 [Wayne]
james: They would probably say we have no time. If someone had interest.
17:02:41 [Wayne]
MichaelC: We need to note that WCAG cannot maintain this, but other groups do not have similar priority.
17:03:04 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
17:03:21 [Wayne]
josh: The thing is work in general, but there are problems with details.
17:03:55 [Wayne]
... we don't want to create documents that address Firefox X and Jaws Y.
17:04:15 [Wayne]
james: Maybe we should just chop the old versions.
17:05:10 [Wayne]
AWK: Our options are: say sorry cannot do it or ask ARIA WG to do it, or to have some people do the work to review it.
17:06:02 [Wayne]
... The task can be much larger. ... We know there is a depth we are going to address. How do we do this in general.
17:06:28 [MichaelC]
q+
17:06:43 [Joshue108]
ack marc
17:06:49 [Joshue108]
ack mike
17:07:22 [Wayne]
mikeE: Maybe we should make a link to some active links that keep track of this, or is it vendor preference?
17:07:41 [AWK]
ack mich
17:07:52 [Joshue108]
ack mich
17:10:06 [laura]
Powermapper people: http://www.powermapper.com/company/people/
17:10:21 [laura]
Mark Rogers, CEO
17:10:21 [Wayne]
MichaelC: We have strayed into a recurrent discussion. The accessibility support DB is supposed to be current. We might look to off source. We shouldn't make a pointer casually. But this is possible. I don't a vender question. We cannot say you must use this. We've given up on keepping up but here are some options.
17:10:27 [MichaelC]
503 on https://www.w3.org/WAI/accessibility-support/
17:11:27 [Wayne]
AWK: Does anyone on the call thinks the update ARIA is in the top 5 of things to do. Does anyone want to allocate any time.
17:11:52 [Wayne]
... My gut is we are not going to do anything about this.
17:13:07 [Wayne]
MichaelC: If you want a change please submit a pull request. Get that out there. This is a public forum.
17:13:26 [Wayne]
AWK: Can you submit a pull request.
17:14:06 [Wayne]
RESOLUTION: Leave this one open.
17:14:19 [AWK]
Zakim, close this item
17:14:19 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
17:14:20 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
17:14:20 [Zakim]
4. • Github issues walkthru. https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues [from Joshue108]
17:14:23 [AWK]
Zakim, next item
17:14:23 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "• Github issues walkthru. https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues" taken up [from Joshue108]
17:16:28 [Wayne]
AWK: I hope people feel encourages, but I am not sure if the know how.
17:20:53 [Wayne]
Kathy: Should we get rid of HTML stuff should be a NO answere.
17:21:07 [Wayne]
s/answere/answer/
17:23:01 [Wayne]
AWK: I there anyone on the call who can give any time to any issues?
17:23:27 [David]
David has joined #wai-wcag
17:23:36 [Wayne]
AWK: Could everyone look at the list and take them on.
17:23:47 [David]
regrets... I have to teach today.... on lunch now
17:24:42 [Mike_Elledge]
bye all!
17:25:00 [Sarah_Swierenga]
have a good week. bye
17:25:05 [Wayne]
trackbot, draft minutes
17:25:05 [trackbot]
Sorry, Wayne, I don't understand 'trackbot, draft minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
17:25:17 [Wayne]
trackbot, end meeting
17:25:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
17:25:17 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been AWK, Josh, wayne, jon_avila, JF, Sarah_Swierenga, MichaelC, Katie, Haritos-Shea, JamesNurthen, Laura, Mike, Elledge, Jan, Rakesh, Eric,
17:25:20 [Zakim]
... LisaS, Kathy, David_MacDonald, Joshue108, Srini, EricE, marcjohlic, adam_solomon, Greg_Lowney
17:25:25 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:25:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
17:25:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
17:25:26 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items