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13:43:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:43:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:43:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:43:13 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
13:43:13 <trackbot> Date: 20 January 2016
13:43:59 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jan/0020
13:44:07 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jan/0020
13:44:12 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:44:15 <Steven> Regrets: None
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14:01:26 <Steven> Present: Erik, Alain, Philip, Nick(remote), Steven
14:01:49 <Steven> Topic: OpenDataKit XForms
14:01:49 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jan/0019.html
14:02:10 <Steven> Steven: What was your opinion of their differences?
14:02:25 <Steven> Erik: I didn;t have time to fully analyse it, but we can quickly run through the list
14:03:14 <Steven> ... 1. Repeat - the intent makes sense, adding and remove item controls by default, number of items, template.
14:03:24 <Steven> ... the way that they do it is a different question
14:03:39 <Steven> ... not sure of the UI
14:03:54 <Steven> ... you can turn off the add/remove possibilities
14:04:14 <Steven> s/;/'/
14:04:47 <Steven> Erik: The other approaches to doing that, for instance ours, is to *add* the new parts
14:05:44 <Steven> ... and there are other issues.
14:07:12 <Steven> Steven: I like the approach of having these things supplied for you: they are difficult to do right.
14:07:17 <Steven> Erik: True.
14:07:41 <Steven> Erik: Orbeon has the 'grid' component, that does this and more
14:07:47 <Steven> ... such as reordering.
14:08:07 <Steven> ... min number of items, maximum number, initial number.
14:08:32 <Steven> ... Do you want to 'freeze' the initial values?
14:08:39 <Steven> ... quite a number of things you might want.
14:09:28 <Steven> Erik: I like a layered approach, such as using components.
14:10:07 <Steven> ... I prefer this to be done as a componenet rather than at the level of repeat.
14:10:26 <Steven> s/componenet/component/
14:10:48 <Steven> Erik: 2 is the handling of templates.
14:11:22 <Steven> ... in the old days we did it differently, no source attribute, using one of the elements from the data
14:11:45 <Steven> ... which meant umping through hooops when deleting the last item.
14:11:51 <Steven> s/ump/jump/
14:11:58 <Steven> ... and made submission tricky
14:12:09 <Steven> .. so we updated the insert action to make this easier.
14:12:58 <Steven> ... they have done something more like the first option, but with a magic attribute
14:13:04 <Steven> ... I'm less charmed by that
14:14:47 <Steven> s/^.. /... /
14:15:46 <ebruchez> For reference, our grid component: http://doc.orbeon.com/form-runner/component/grid.html
14:15:54 <Steven> Steven: I do like the idea of associating messages to binds
14:16:50 <Steven> ... because ti keeps the messages close to the tests.
14:17:07 <Steven> Erik: There are many extensions that people have with binds Betterforms have written about it.
14:17:18 <Steven> ... they support something similar.
14:17:46 <ebruchez> https://betterform.wordpress.com/2012/12/19/taking-mips-to-the-next-level/
14:19:15 <Steven> Erik: We can link from bind to message, but the message is still in the UI.
14:20:29 <Steven> ... (I'll send a link later)
14:20:56 <Steven> ... there are issues with I18N
14:21:07 <Steven> Steven: Yes, but no different from int and alert etc in the UI
14:21:10 <Steven> Erik" True
14:21:14 <Steven> s/"/:/
14:21:48 <Steven> Steven: And then 3. Extra XPath functions
14:21:57 <Steven> Erik: Some inconsistencies here.
14:22:40 <Steven> ... they have some XPath 2 and even one from XPath 3, plus their own functions. Didn;t have time to analyse what they were doing.
14:23:30 <ebruchez> tokenize(value, '\s+') = 'my-value'
14:23:49 <Steven> Erik: The selected function is less needed with XPath 2.
14:24:40 <Steven> ... but I can see the point.
14:25:06 <Steven> Steven: Thanks for doing that, some interesting things to think about for the future.
14:25:22 <Steven> Topic: Sections 1-3
14:25:22 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jan/0018.html
14:26:48 <Steven> Steven: Thanks for the comments on 1-3.
14:27:01 <Steven> ... I have made the corrections, and I see a couple of typos
14:27:56 <Steven> Alain: Section 1.1, shouldn't say "the successor to HTML FOrms"
14:28:02 <Steven> Steven: Right, I'll fix that
14:28:12 <Steven> s/FO/Fo/
14:29:41 <Steven> Steven: One thing that struck me today, and I'm not sure if we discussed before, but in the CSV examples,
14:30:08 <Steven> ... if the name is a non-XML name, we should record the real name (with name="") to be able to round-trip them.
14:30:11 <Steven> Alain: I agree.
14:31:01 <Steven> Topic: AOB
14:31:41 <Steven> Steven: next week, sections 1-3 if you haven't already read it, and section 4-6. The week after, section 7.
14:31:50 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:31:50 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:31:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/20-forms-minutes.html Steven
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