IRC log of aria on 2016-01-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-irc
17:27:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
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Zakim, this will be
17:27:03 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
17:27:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
17:27:04 [trackbot]
Date: 14 January 2016
17:31:07 [fesch]
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17:31:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0035.html
17:31:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
RRSAgent, make log public
17:31:24 [fesch]
present+ fesch
17:31:25 [jongund]
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17:31:33 [richardschwerdtfeger]
present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:33:02 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
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17:34:57 [clown]
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17:37:24 [MichaelC]
if we learn otherwise, we´ll have to stop that practice too
17:37:40 [JF]
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17:37:41 [jamesn]
scribe: jamesn
17:37:54 [jamesn]
agenda?
17:38:05 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0035.html
17:38:37 [richardschwerdtfeger]
Topic: Group-Wide Process for Consensus on Resolutions
17:39:07 [jamesn]
RS: we reached consensus on feed role at TPAC
17:39:20 [jamesn]
about a month later someone came in and said they had issues with it
17:39:41 [jamesn]
how do we make sure people are aware of resolutions so they can weigh in on them
17:39:57 [jamesn]
feed wasn't that big of an issue but I think we need a process
17:39:59 [clown]
present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:40:03 [jamesn]
is the resolution process enough
17:40:10 [JF]
present+ JF
17:40:26 [jamesn]
should we take resolutions and put them up for a call for consensus
17:40:39 [jamesn]
can't give a month as that is a long time
17:40:56 [jamesn]
MC was looking at how we can extract resolutions from minutes
17:41:05 [mck]
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17:41:09 [JF]
Q+
17:41:11 [jamesn]
MC: requested enhancements to tracker for this
17:41:29 [jamesn]
MC: but probably in a bucket which won't get anything done for a while
17:41:35 [jamesn]
would need to look at other ways
17:41:44 [jamesn]
maybe will get a tracker feature some day
17:41:45 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
17:42:33 [jamesn]
JF: if we pass a resolution on a call suspect it is in the minutes.... if there are resolutions in a call, perhaps the scribe who sends out the minutes that there are resolutions in the minutes
17:42:43 [jamesn]
RS: sounds like an option
17:43:16 [jamesn]
MC: APA discussions were that the chair needed to do it
17:43:29 [jamesn]
JS: CFC needs to go to the admin list not the public list
17:43:48 [mck]
scribe: matt_king
17:44:14 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:44:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
17:44:18 [mck]
RS: does that mean we have to author a formal CFC?
17:44:31 [mck]
JS: We do not want public weighing on CFCs
17:44:38 [cyns]
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17:44:57 [mck]
JS: Chair would need to pull the resolutions out of the minutes and post them
17:45:20 [mck]
RS: how long do we give?
17:45:31 [mck]
JS: decision policy says 1 week for cfc
17:45:31 [MichaelC]
chair: Rich
17:46:41 [mck]
RS: Usually people with an objection are the ones who didn't attend
17:46:50 [MichaelC]
present+ MichaelC, Michiel, JamesN, Bryan, Janina, Matt
17:46:53 [mck]
RS: How do we resolve that?
17:46:59 [mck]
JS: read minutes
17:47:10 [mck]
RS: Could take a very long time to resolve
17:48:04 [mck]
MC: W3C is moving to teleconferences for decisions/discussion
17:48:16 [mck]
MC: We have right to request use of a telecon
17:48:38 [mck]
MB: Not sure traveling is always a valid excuse not to attend
17:48:57 [mck]
MB: Difficult with CFC is that is hard to find time to read all the specs that come through.
17:49:09 [mck]
MC: Most cfcs are very gramular.
17:49:22 [mck]
MC: sometimes they are larger, e.g., pub a doc
17:49:25 [richardschwerdtfeger]
s/gramular/granular/
17:49:38 [mck]
Joseph: sometimes multiple resolutions per call
17:49:49 [mck]
separate cfc for each one?
17:50:08 [mck]
JS: easy to do if we had a bot but may too much for a manual process
17:50:41 [mck]
Joseph: often the resolution precedes the edits to the doc
17:51:01 [mck]
RS: Can the cfc refer to the minutes
17:51:16 [mck]
MC: Sometime pushback from people about having to read minutes
17:51:36 [mck]
JS: If minutes are not clear, probably better to capture that early.
17:51:47 [mck]
rs: they should have to read the minutes
17:52:05 [mck]
js: if minutes are not clear, then it is something the group will stumble on
17:52:31 [mck]
rs: what if I write up the cfc and get 2nd set of eyes on it?
17:52:41 [mck]
jmc: can do that
17:53:00 [mck]
js: not sure you have to write it up, just paste in that part of minutes
17:53:07 [JF]
+1
17:54:48 [jnurthen]
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rrsagent, make minutes
17:57:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html jnurthen
17:58:22 [mck]
MK: can we use the public objection process for late-raised objections?
17:58:30 [jnurthen]
s/scribe: matt_king/scribe: mck/
17:58:49 [mck]
JS: This approach may be worth considering
17:58:59 [jnurthen]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:58:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html jnurthen
17:59:28 [mck]
js: explained the issue process
18:00:46 [MichaelC]
q+
18:00:54 [jamesn]
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18:01:11 [mck]
js: what I like about the admin list approach and posting resolutions for cfc, is it gives a way to serve people who are not in a postion to participate in calls, perhaps b/c tz
18:01:42 [mck]
js: it gives something defined, written, and creates a good trail.
18:01:53 [JF]
ack me
18:02:35 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
18:03:21 [mck]
RS: Cynthia, if you can't make a call, and group makes a resolution on a decision, would appropriate thing be to post these decisions to the admin list?
18:04:08 [mck]
cs: I like the approach where each cfc is in a separate e-mail, but a weekly mail with all the resolutions would be acceptable.
18:04:22 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
18:04:45 [MichielBijl]
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18:04:52 [MichaelC]
ack me
18:04:59 [mck]
js: if the bots can do it, then they could be individual e-mails.
18:05:17 [mck]
mc: discussion in apa, concern about people having to read the minutes.
18:05:40 [mck]
but, I think reading min if you can not attend call, is important.
18:05:57 [mck]
if you can't do at least that, then perhaps not a member in good standing.
18:06:13 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:06:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
18:06:21 [mck]
rs: so put out in a resoutions in a cfc to admin list, the cfcs can refer back to the minutes.
18:06:42 [mck]
rs: and there is a 1 week review period for each cfc.
18:06:57 [mck]
rs: can we get that decision policy out for another review.
18:07:16 [mck]
js: Michael, can we get that uri?
18:07:21 [MichaelC]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/decision-policy
18:07:39 [mck]
mc: may need some modest updates based on this discussion.
18:08:02 [mck]
rs: will need to vote on decision policy, Michael, do you need time to update the policy?
18:08:49 [mck]
mc: there is at least one sentence that needs to be reworded; not sure there is more than that.
18:09:19 [mck]
rs: can we have something to vote on in the next week?
18:09:23 [mck]
mc: yes
18:11:42 [JF]
+1 to Michael, and further I think Michiel's draft resolution works for me
18:12:34 [mck]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:12:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck
18:13:25 [mck]
Joseph: if we have a draft spec text related to a resolution, make sure the resolution includes the link.
18:15:01 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:15:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html jamesn
18:16:53 [mck]
RESOLUTION: The group resolved that we will post the resolutions for each individual meeting to the aria admin list with a brief summary and a link to the minutes of the meeting. Members have a week to respond to CfC's as per the decision policy.
18:17:52 [mck]
RS: the decision policy draft will be available for review on the admin list prior to the next meting.
18:18:59 [cyns]
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18:19:31 [mck]
TOPIC: Scoping ARIA 1.1
18:19:40 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:19:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
18:20:18 [mck]
rs: I will write an approach to managing scope and hsare with the group.
18:20:43 [mck]
rs: There are some issues that we know aria 1.1 must address b/c how long it will be until aria 2.0.
18:21:39 [mck]
TOPIC: Issues and action review
18:21:47 [cyns]
q+ to ask about tracker vs github issues
18:22:05 [clown]
action-2004?
18:22:05 [mck]
action-2004?
18:22:05 [trackbot]
action-2004 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create proposal for password role -- due 2016-01-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:22:05 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004
18:22:05 [trackbot]
action-2004 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Create proposal for password role -- due 2016-01-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:22:07 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004
18:22:35 [mck]
TOPIC: password role proposal
18:22:38 [joanie]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#password
18:22:48 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2004
18:22:51 [MichielBijl]
Related GitHub issue: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/166
18:23:27 [MichielBijl]
+1
18:24:18 [JF]
Q+
18:24:48 [mck]
rs: rich liked something joanie wrote ...
18:24:54 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
18:25:23 [clown]
q+ to ask when would an author not obscure the text?
18:26:28 [mck]
mk: do we need to say a "type of"
18:26:42 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ack cyns
18:26:42 [Zakim]
cyns, you wanted to ask about tracker vs github issues
18:26:55 [mck]
joanie: i could take an action to clean up that kind of language in the spec
18:26:58 [fesch]
q+ to say amazon lets show your password, I like that option
18:27:08 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ack JF
18:27:57 [mck]
jf: concerned about the wording that suggests a sscreen reader that may be silent when entering a pw
18:28:17 [mck]
joanie: not saying a screen reader should be silent
18:28:41 [mck]
jf: I was not reading as normative
18:28:58 [mck]
is that a useful option, or should it say something different
18:29:19 [mck]
bg: typically sr says something like * or bullet
18:29:36 [mck]
jf: not saying we should specify what to do
18:30:52 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
18:30:56 [mck]
mk: not sure we say anything about sr behavior
18:31:41 [mck]
joanie: it is important that the authors make sure there are actual chars that line up with what's behind
18:32:12 [mck]
joanie: tyring to say that an sr should be able to do what it does in a native pw field
18:32:24 [mck]
jf: agree
18:32:36 [mck]
rs: can't specify sr behavior
18:32:57 [mck]
but people want an idea of what behavior the role enables for AT
18:33:47 [mck]
jf: Do not have issue with what is happening ... maybe we should say that sr shold mimic what they do in a native pw field
18:34:21 [richardschwerdtfeger]
q?
18:34:25 [mck]
joanie: I will submit to some new text for review
18:34:27 [richardschwerdtfeger]
ack clown
18:34:27 [Zakim]
clown, you wanted to ask when would an author not obscure the text?
18:34:28 [fesch]
ack me
18:34:28 [Zakim]
fesch, you wanted to say amazon lets show your password, I like that option
18:35:00 [mck]
joseph: i am objecting to the author should ... it should be an author must that authors reveal
18:35:33 [mck]
Joanie: iw will address that
18:36:14 [JF]
+1 to thanking Joannie
18:36:27 [MichielBijl]
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18:36:30 [mck]
TOPIC: Review overdue actions
18:36:33 [clown]
action-1380
18:36:33 [trackbot]
action-1380 -- Léonie Watson to #presentation should mention aria-hidden vs presentation role on raster and vector images in relation to ACTION-1379 -- due 2015-09-25 -- OPEN
18:36:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1380
18:36:40 [mck]
action-1380?
18:36:40 [trackbot]
action-1380 -- Léonie Watson to #presentation should mention aria-hidden vs presentation role on raster and vector images in relation to ACTION-1379 -- due 2015-09-25 -- OPEN
18:36:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1380
18:36:49 [janina]
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18:37:48 [clown]
For role="presentation" and aria-hidden="true" that states that if the host language treats the element as having no owned children in the DOM that it is treated as a single entity such as <img src="foo.svg">
18:38:11 [mck]
rs: Joanie can you take it up now?
18:38:28 [MichielBijl]
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18:38:35 [mck]
Joanie: No; this is not ready for me .... I do not yet know what to make it say.
18:39:02 [clown]
<div role="presentation" aria-hidden-"true"> a whole bunch of other children </div>
18:39:16 [clown]
that div becomes a single accessible object in the tree.
18:39:29 [MichielBijl]
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18:40:36 [mck]
rs: have a table with role presentation and aria-hidden true ... what should happen?
18:41:00 [MichielBijl]
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18:41:03 [mck]
Fred: what happened if a child in the table was a link?
18:41:19 [mck]
joanie: you can't have a focusable element that is not exposed
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18:43:14 [mck]
rs: this has to do with svg and iframe stuff
18:43:28 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-aria-minutes.html
18:43:42 [MichielBijl]
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18:44:14 [mck]
Joanie: Rich, if you are the one who understands this, can you write the sentence?
18:44:43 [MichielBijl]
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18:45:53 [mck]
joseph: this wording is meant for the presentation role definition
18:46:19 [mck]
mk: this needs to be in agreement with 5.1.1 and 5.1.2 in AAM
18:46:22 [clown]
action-1465?
18:46:22 [trackbot]
action-1465 -- Shane McCarron to Or shane to fix default values in 1.1 respec -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
18:46:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1465
18:46:45 [MichielBijl]
MichielBijl has joined #aria
18:47:18 [mck]
RS: Is the styling of default values currently addressed in the spec?
18:47:29 [clown]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#checkbox
18:47:29 [mck]
joseph: not bolded now
18:47:44 [mck]
rs: editorial issue; need to assign to you Joanie.
18:47:46 [MichielBijl]
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18:48:28 [mck]
Joanie: this may be a duplicate action
18:49:18 [clown]
action-1567
18:49:18 [trackbot]
action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking to glossary items -- due 2015-11-19 -- OPEN
18:49:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567
18:49:26 [mck]
Joanie, look at action 1567
18:49:33 [mck]
action-1567?
18:49:33 [trackbot]
action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking to glossary items -- due 2015-11-19 -- OPEN
18:49:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567
18:49:54 [MichielBijl]
MichielBijl has joined #aria
18:50:03 [mck]
Joanie changing title of 1567 and making 1465 a duplicate
18:51:03 [joanie]
action-1567
18:51:03 [trackbot]
action-1567 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Fix inconsistencies in linking to glossary items -- due 2015-11-19 -- OPEN
18:51:03 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1567
18:51:29 [mck]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:51:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck
18:53:00 [mck]
action-1489?
18:53:00 [trackbot]
action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2015-11-12 -- OPEN
18:53:00 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489
18:53:01 [clown]
action-1489?
18:53:01 [trackbot]
action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2015-11-12 -- OPEN
18:53:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1489
18:53:24 [richardschwerdtfeger]
https://www.w3.org/2014/07/21-aria-minutes#item05
18:55:53 [mck]
Joseph: the question is whether or not aria should awyas win? aria-label perhaps, but what about aria-required, aria-autocomplete, etc.
18:56:20 [fesch]
s/awyas/always/
18:59:28 [mck]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:59:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck
19:00:33 [mck]
zakim, bye
19:00:33 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been fesch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, JF, MichaelC, Michiel, JamesN, Bryan, Janina, Matt
19:00:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #aria
19:00:54 [mck]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:00:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/01/14-aria-minutes.html mck
19:17:35 [joanie]
RRSAgent, stop