19:48:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
19:48:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-sdw-irc
19:48:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:48:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdw
19:48:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:48:25 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
19:48:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:48:26 <trackbot> Date: 09 December 2015
19:48:41 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:48:50 <phila> regrets+ Bill, Ed
19:50:36 <Payam> Payam has joined #sdw
19:51:23 <phila> regrets+ Rachel, Andreas, Alejandro
19:51:39 <kerry> zakim, code?
19:51:39 <Zakim> I have been told this is SDW WG Weekly. https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mc96ab6583bd632deef4bf778ff424d78 Or :+1-617-324-0000, Meeting: 642 235 291
19:52:06 <kerry> regrets+ Jon Blower
19:52:20 <kerry> regrets+ bill roberts
19:52:36 <kerry> regrets+ ed parsons
19:59:08 <ClemensPortele> ClemensPortele has joined #sdw
19:59:10 <frans> frans has joined #sdw
19:59:44 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
19:59:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:00:13 <phila> chair: kerry
20:00:22 <ClemensPortele> present+ ClemensPortele
20:00:26 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20151209
20:00:28 <Payam> Present+ Payam
20:00:43 <phila> present+ phila, kerry
20:00:43 <Payam> Present+ Phila
20:00:54 <robinlk> present+ robinlk
20:00:59 <Payam> present+ Payam
20:01:04 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has joined #sdw
20:01:36 <frans> present+ frans
20:03:05 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
20:03:36 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
20:03:50 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
20:04:14 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ bart
20:04:18 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ BartvanLeeuwen
20:04:36 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
20:04:38 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
20:04:52 <LarsG> LarsG has joined #sdw
20:04:58 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
20:05:01 <Linda> present+ Linda
20:05:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:06:30 <LarsG> present+ LarsG
20:07:41 <kerry> present+ kerry
20:07:55 <kerry> chair: kerry
20:08:26 <BartvanLeeuwen> -1
20:08:54 <phila> scribe: LarsG
20:08:55 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdw
20:08:59 <phila> scribeNick: LarsG
20:09:26 <kerry> http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-sdw-minutes
20:09:27 <jtandy> +1
20:09:30 <kerry> +1
20:09:33 <Linda> +1
20:09:34 <ClemensPortele> +1
20:09:36 <LarsG> topic: approve last week's minutes
20:09:39 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
20:09:40 <phila> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes
20:09:43 <Payam> +1
20:09:45 <frans> +0 (was not present)
20:09:47 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
20:09:47 <MattPerry> +1
20:09:49 <KJanowicz> KJanowicz has joined #sdw
20:09:50 <phila> RESOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes
20:10:09 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
20:10:11 <LarsG> topic: patent call
20:10:25 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
20:10:40 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
20:10:42 <LarsG> topic: Use Cases and Requirements Note: resolve to publish 2nd public working draft
20:10:53 <kerry> ack Bart
20:11:17 <LarsG> Bart: is the Swiss topographical survey in our WG?
20:11:27 <LarsG> phila: not to my knowledge
20:11:46 <jtandy> I don't know anyone from swisstopo particiapting either
20:11:52 <LarsG> BartvanLeeuwen: They have much content and should be aware of what we do
20:12:02 <LarsG> ... just want to make sure they aren't already
20:12:09 <jtandy> s/particiapting/participating/
20:12:21 <LarsG> phila: don't know if they are W3C members
20:12:37 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has joined #sdw
20:12:44 <phila> s/W3C members/OGC members, I know they're not W3C members/
20:13:06 <LarsG> kerry: we want to publish 2 PWD of UCR
20:13:39 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/publishing-snapshots/2015-12-17-UseCases/ UCR Snapshot
20:13:54 <LarsG> frans: the document is ready, phila did some cleanup of broken links
20:14:03 <LarsG> ... but it's ready for publication
20:14:24 <LarsG> kerry: we can vote on that
20:14:41 <phila> q+
20:14:50 <phila> q-
20:14:58 <LarsG> frans: still some loose ends, document is not finished
20:15:22 <LarsG> ... unresolved issues around, there might be new requirements
20:15:29 <LarsG> ... all loose ends in the tracker
20:16:02 <LarsG> ... assigns actions to other document editors
20:16:23 <LarsG> ... the editors can then pass the actions on to others
20:16:59 <LarsG> kerry: well done
20:17:10 <Linda> q+
20:17:12 <LarsG> frans: using the tracker is a great help
20:17:18 <kerry> ack next
20:17:33 <LarsG> Linda: What is the difference to the current WD?
20:17:54 <LarsG> frans: minor details, some issues were resolved. FPWD published in summer
20:18:05 <phila> And 2 new UCs
20:18:09 <jtandy> q+ to ask if we can put a diff section in
20:18:12 <LarsG> ... did some rephrasing, fixing errors etc.
20:18:27 <kerry> ack next
20:18:28 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask if we can put a diff section in
20:19:12 <LarsG> jtandy: in previous work I was involved in there was a diff section in the documents. Don't see this in the UCR document. Is that needed?
20:19:20 <LarsG> phila: no, it's not necessary
20:19:30 <LarsG> jtandy: but it's easy with a good diff tool
20:19:45 <LarsG> ... does respec do that?
20:20:14 <LarsG> phila: don't know
20:20:44 <LarsG> frans: if we list all changes it will be a large boring document. It could be assigned as an action so someone
20:20:53 <phila> -> http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2F2015%2FNOTE-sdw-ucr-20150723%2F&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fw3c.github.io%2Fsdw%2Fpublishing-snapshots%2F2015-12-17-UseCases%2F The diff between the two
20:21:05 <LarsG> jtandy: previously we have done an external diff document with all changes
20:21:19 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #sdw
20:21:34 <LarsG> phila: there is a diff available (through the diff tool). Is that enough?
20:21:39 <Linda> Looks good to me
20:22:20 <jtandy> yes- I think that's sufficient for a diff
20:22:44 <LarsG> ... Talked to OGC about their publication process. Minimum period is eight days, so we must get the OGC process going today.
20:23:04 <kerry> +1 to diff as Phil linked
20:23:22 <LarsG> ... OGC can vote before we do. Has sent a snapshot of the document to them so that they can kick off their process
20:23:33 <LarsG> ... there is no need to hold up their process
20:24:11 <LarsG> joshlieberman: has posted the PDF on the OGC portal and initiated a poll
20:24:13 <jtandy> [aside: generating diffs automatically ... see https://github.com/w3c/csvw/blob/gh-pages/publishing_process.md for what we did on CSVW ... steps 6 & 7 are relevant]
20:24:30 <frans> About the diff tool: do we want to have a link to the document marked with changes in the documents that we will publish next?
20:24:40 <LarsG> ... saying that we need to start the vote this evening. Passes it on to Scott
20:25:09 <LarsG> kerry: so if we vote tonight we can have it formally published before Christmas
20:25:27 <LarsG> ... Do we need to update the snapshot to include the diff?
20:25:55 <LarsG> joshlieberman: we should mention that there are two more UCs and a new requirement. Don't know if we need more details
20:26:16 <frans> Could we decide to add the diff info in next publications?
20:26:19 <jtandy> q+
20:26:48 <LarsG> phila: we can say that we accept it for publication iff the diff is added
20:27:00 <LarsG> joshlieberman: there is an automated process in the OGC
20:27:36 <LarsG> ... so the new version is OGC r1
20:27:44 <jtandy> [see CSVW PR (http://w3c.github.io/csvw/publishing-snapshots/PR-metadata/Overview.html) that shows "Diff to previous version" (automatically generated) and the editorial list of notable changes at Appendix E Changes from previous drafts http://w3c.github.io/csvw/publishing-snapshots/PR-metadata/Overview.html#changes]
20:27:54 <LarsG> ... but that is not a substantive change
20:28:14 <joshlieberman> q+
20:28:24 <kerry> ack jtandy
20:28:26 <phila> ack jt
20:29:10 <LarsG> jtandy: CSVW have a diff-to-previous-versoin section created by the diff tool, probably using respec
20:29:15 <jtandy> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/publishing-snapshots/PR-metadata/diff.html
20:29:33 <jtandy> http://w3c.github.io/csvw/publishing-snapshots/PR-metadata/Overview.html#changes
20:30:08 <jtandy> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/commits/gh-pages
20:30:12 <LarsG> ... the document also has an editorial section listing major changes. We can also link to the commit history
20:30:33 <LarsG> ... on github. so it shouldn't be difficult to add that
20:30:41 <joshlieberman> Summary: 2 new use cases (Provenance of climate data, representing geospatial data in RDF), 1 new requirement (update datatypes in OWL Time), Accepted requirements by deliverable, Deferred requirements.
20:30:56 <phila> q+ to make an offer
20:31:11 <phila> ack j
20:31:16 <LarsG> frans: if W3C and OGC don't mind an additional change it's OK. Can see the usefulness of the diff.
20:32:07 <kerry> ack phila
20:32:07 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to make an offer
20:32:13 <LarsG> joshlieberman: some requirements shifted their numbers but that should be OK
20:32:13 <jtandy> [ jtandy noticed the change in REQ numbering too ]
20:32:39 <LarsG> phila: changing numbers shouldn't be a problem since we use textual links anyway
20:32:55 <LarsG> ... adding the diff should be fine
20:33:06 <frans> the id tags are fixed, the numbers are flexible. To refer to use cases or requirements please use the iss (fragment identifiers)
20:33:21 <LarsG> ... asks frans to write a brief summary and phila can add it to the document
20:34:19 <phila> action: frans to write short textual summary of changes since FPWD of the UCR doc
20:34:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-122 - Write short textual summary of changes since fpwd of the ucr doc [on Frans Knibbe - due 2015-12-16].
20:34:35 <phila> action: phila to add links to Diff and Commit history to UCR doc
20:34:35 <LarsG> joshlieberman: OGC is fine with that
20:34:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-123 - Add links to diff and commit history to ucr doc [on Phil Archer - due 2015-12-16].
20:35:14 <LarsG> frans: is it possible to have a universal URI that points to the most recent version?
20:35:27 <phila> That's what http://www.w3.org/TR/sdw-ucr/ is, frans
20:35:38 <jtandy> q+ to ask @phila if he will update http://w3c.github.io/sdw/
20:35:49 <joshlieberman> http://www.w3.org/TR/sdw-ucr/
20:36:32 <LarsG> phila: there is a process to create those short URIs. They point to the most recent published version.
20:36:45 <LarsG> ... and there is a link to the editors' draft
20:37:02 <Linda> q+
20:37:03 <kerry> ack jtandy
20:37:03 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask @phila if he will update http://w3c.github.io/sdw/
20:37:11 <phila> action: phila to update GH pages index etc
20:37:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-124 - Update gh pages index etc [on Phil Archer - due 2015-12-16].
20:37:16 <kerry> ack Linda
20:37:33 <LarsG> Linda: there is no link to the draft from our wiki
20:37:50 <kerry> action: kerry to ensure wiki has link to http://w3c.github.io/sdw/
20:37:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-125 - Ensure wiki has link to http://w3c.github.io/sdw/ [on Kerry Taylor - due 2015-12-16].
20:37:59 <LarsG> frans: if we change the link on the wiki to the short URI we have links to both the published and the current version
20:38:20 <LarsG> Linda: misses link to the current WD
20:38:33 <LarsG> kerry: will take care of that
20:38:58 <kerry> q?
20:40:42 <phila> PROPOSED: That the version of the UCR at http://w3c.github.io/sdw/publishing-snapshots/2015-12-17-UseCases/ be published as the next version, modulo actions being complted by Frans (editorial notes of changes since the last version) and Phil adding links to the mechanically-generated diff and GH commit history
20:40:57 <jtandy> +1
20:41:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
20:41:10 <phila> PROPOSED: That the version of the UCR at http://w3c.github.io/sdw/publishing-snapshots/2015-12-17-UseCases/ be published as the next version, modulo actions being complted by Frans (editorial notes of changes since the last version) and Phil adding links to the mechanically-generated diff and GH commit history. And that the OGC process is also concluded satisfactorily.
20:41:40 <jtandy> +1
20:41:41 <LarsG> s/complted/completed/
20:41:44 <ClemensPortele> +1
20:41:46 <frans> +1
20:41:48 <joshlieberman> +1
20:41:49 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
20:41:50 <MattPerry> +1
20:41:52 <kerry> +1
20:41:55 <Linda> +1
20:42:07 <LarsG> +1
20:42:07 <Payam> +1
20:42:10 <ahaller2> +1
20:42:15 <KJanowicz> +1
20:42:26 <phila> RESOLUTION: That the version of the UCR at http://w3c.github.io/sdw/publishing-snapshots/2015-12-17-UseCases/ be published as the next version, modulo actions being completed by Frans (editorial notes of changes since the last version) and Phil adding links to the mechanically-generated diff and GH commit history. And that the OGC process is also concluded satisfactorily.
20:42:42 <phila> Vote of thanks to the editors
20:42:51 <phila> q+
20:42:53 <kerry> +1
20:42:58 <frans> thank you, could not have done it without all of you
20:43:10 <phila> q- clap, of
20:43:12 <kerry> ack phila
20:44:29 <ahaller2> present+ ahaller2
20:44:30 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:44:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:44:45 <frans> bye Phil1
20:45:09 <frans> s/Phil1/Phil!/
20:45:12 <LarsG> topic: 2.	Best Practice: Revised timescales
20:46:58 <LarsG> jtandy: BP editors see that there is more work to do in order to have it review ready
20:47:35 <LarsG> ... if editing is delayed to the end of next week (+10 days) editing could be finished
20:47:48 <LarsG> ... then WG members can review until January 6
20:48:09 <LarsG> ... and we can vote. This assumes that OGC vote is eight working days,
20:48:20 <LarsG> ... then we can publish on January 19 or 20
20:49:13 <LarsG> Linda: wants to vote one week later
20:49:15 <AndreaPerego> +1 to vote on Jan, 13th.
20:49:25 <LarsG> kerry: it's fine to vote on Jan 13
20:49:32 <LarsG> ... holiday time everywhere
20:49:41 <ahaller2> +1 for 13 Jan
20:50:11 <jtandy> PROPOSED: delay vote to release BP FPWD until Jan 13 2016 ... we will present the ed draft on Jan 6 2016
20:50:30 <joshlieberman> +1
20:50:31 <jtandy> +1
20:50:32 <ClemensPortele> +1
20:50:33 <LarsG> +1
20:50:35 <Linda> +1
20:50:36 <KJanowicz> +1
20:50:37 <MattPerry> +1
20:50:37 <frans> +1
20:50:38 <Payam> +1
20:50:42 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
20:50:47 <jtandy> RESOLVED: delay vote to release BP FPWD until Jan 13 2016 ... we will present the ed draft on Jan 6 2016
20:51:00 <jtandy> RESOLUTION: delay vote to release BP FPWD until Jan 13 2016 ... we will present the ed draft on Jan 6 2016
20:51:27 <LarsG> topic: Best Practice:  ACTION-98 list/matrix of the common formats
20:51:47 <Linda> http://www.w3.org/TR/sdw-ucr/
20:52:03 <Linda> http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/98
20:52:28 <jtandy> [ Ed's table is here: http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#applicability-formatVbp ]
20:52:34 <LarsG> Linda: action is about common spatial formats and what you can do with them
20:52:49 <Linda> http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_SpatialDataFormats
20:52:59 <LarsG> ... Ed has done one table and Clemens another one
20:53:20 <LarsG> ... would like to merge those tables
20:53:31 <LarsG> ... both have useful information
20:53:42 <jtandy> Column headers: Format	Openness	Binary/text	Usage	Discoverability	Granular links	CRS Support	Verbosity	Semantics vocbab?	Streamable	3D Support
20:53:56 <jtandy> (in Ed's table)
20:54:19 <LarsG> ... Clemens's table is more detailed
20:54:22 <frans> q+
20:55:09 <LarsG> ... is worried about including both general and specific properties when merging
20:55:17 <ClemensPortele> q+
20:55:22 <kerry> ack frans
20:55:36 <LarsG> frans: depends on the purpose of the table
20:55:53 <LarsG> ... do editors have a clear vision of that?
20:56:16 <LarsG> ... e. g. webiness of formats or also stand-alone GIS software formats
20:56:23 <LarsG> ... what is the purpose?
20:56:49 <LarsG> Linda: Purpose is to help people to choose a format for publishing on the web, so webiness is a criterion
20:56:51 <kerry> ack ClemensPortele
20:57:09 <LarsG> ClemensPortele: agrees that webiness is a factor but shouldn't be the only one
20:57:27 <joshlieberman> Second purpose could be to help people to transform existing data to a webbier format...then we need to reference existing data formats.
20:57:28 <kerry> q+
20:57:48 <LarsG> ... it's better to have the data out as a shape file if the alternative is to have no data at all
20:57:58 <LarsG> ... how much guidance do we want to give?
20:58:09 <LarsG> ... multiple geometries etc.
20:58:17 <jtandy> q+ to ask the WG what they would look for regarding guidance of format choice
20:58:20 <LarsG> ... tries to stick to objective measures
20:58:34 <LarsG> ... looking at link support, semantic requirements
20:58:56 <LarsG> ... knows that the list is long and might be hard to understand for non-geoexperts
20:59:17 <LarsG> ... Ed's classification is a bit subjective (verbosity)
20:59:22 <jtandy> [ agree that Ed's classifications are subjective ]
20:59:28 <kerry> ack next
20:59:30 <LarsG> ... to we want to inlude soft critera, too?
20:59:47 <AndreaPerego> s/inlude/include/
20:59:49 <LarsG> kerry: likes Ed's table, key best practices
21:00:23 <LarsG> ... otoh there are people who recognise the value of the number of attributes listed
21:00:41 <LarsG> ... both tables have a purpose, do we have room to do both?
21:01:02 <jtandy> [ thinks that the multiple user aspect might work ...  ]
21:01:03 <LarsG> ... one table with the most common ones (casual) and one as a deeper reference
21:01:09 <Linda> q?
21:01:17 <jtandy> ack jtandy
21:01:17 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to ask the WG what they would look for regarding guidance of format choice
21:01:17 <LarsG> ... has a preference for that
21:01:21 <LarsG> jtandy:
21:01:29 <joshlieberman> q+
21:02:05 <LarsG> jtandy: asking the WG to help the editors by saying what kind of table they would prefer (what would be helpful to pick a format)
21:02:09 <joshlieberman> Ed's criteria are good, just have to formalize them a bit.
21:02:22 <joshlieberman> e.g. what is "discoverable"?
21:02:22 <frans> I would to see only one recommended format, not twenty formats for different purposes
21:02:37 <frans> s/would to see/would like to see/
21:02:54 <kerry> action: andrea to comment on table content and format around ACTION-98
21:02:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-126 - Comment on table content and format around action-98 [on Andrea Perego - due 2015-12-16].
21:03:21 <frans> q+
21:03:30 <kerry> ack josh
21:03:48 <kerry> action: josh to Comment on table content and format around action-98
21:03:48 <trackbot> Error finding 'josh'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
21:03:55 <kerry> ack frans
21:03:55 <Linda> q?
21:03:57 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman
21:04:16 <jtandy> q+ to note that we've done some more updates to the BP doc too ... particularly note that Linda has finished BP 1
21:04:20 <kerry> action: joshlieberman  to Comment on table content and format around action-98
21:04:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-127 -  to comment on table content and format around action-98 [on Joshua Lieberman - due 2015-12-16].
21:04:28 <LarsG> frans: we need a good definition of format
21:04:56 <LarsG> ... some in the table are classic GIS formats, others are in the RDF/Web sphere (e. g. GeoJSON)
21:04:58 <KJanowicz> I would not consider neogeo a format
21:05:08 <LarsG> jtandy: we collate that information. There is an action for that
21:05:14 <KJanowicz> it is more like a vocabulary and this is action 101 and 103
21:05:16 <LarsG> ... vocabularies are not formats
21:05:31 <kerry> q?
21:05:31 <joshlieberman> There are combinations of model, schema, and encoding...not just format.
21:05:37 <LarsG> ... so there are two collections
21:05:49 <jtandy> that we've done some more updates to the BP doc too ... particularly note that Linda has finished BP 1  ... http://w3c.github.io/sdw/bp/#globally-unique-ids
21:05:54 <LarsG> topic: Best Practice: update on progress, any other issues
21:06:21 <LarsG> jtandy: work is underway
21:06:37 <LarsG> topic: Reminder: Christmas Break (no meeting 23 & 30 December
21:06:55 <LarsG> kerry: last meeting 2015 is next week December 16
21:07:03 <KJanowicz> bye bye
21:07:07 <joshlieberman> Ta ta
21:07:11 <LarsG> ... then Christmas break until January 6
21:07:12 <frans> thank you. good day!
21:07:13 <ClemensPortele> bye
21:07:13 <MattPerry> \quit
21:07:17 <LarsG> Cheers
21:07:18 <joshlieberman> \quit
21:07:18 <kerry> ta ta from me!
21:07:25 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has left #sdw
21:07:28 <kerry> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:07:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/09-sdw-minutes.html kerry