IRC log of webfonts on 2015-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:56:28 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-irc
20:56:30 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
20:56:30 [Zakim]
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20:56:32 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3668
20:56:32 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
20:56:33 [trackbot]
Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
20:56:33 [trackbot]
Date: 02 December 2015
20:56:43 [ChrisL]
Chair: Vlad
20:56:49 [ChrisL]
Scribe: ChrisL
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20:58:45 [RSheeter]
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21:02:17 [RSheeter]
Chris would you like to scribe or shall I?
21:02:36 [ChrisL]
I was ready to (but thanks!) I'm fine this week
21:03:40 [ChrisL]
(discussion on DPub IG and recent font discussions, licensing for online/offline/epub)
21:05:42 [ChrisL]
Vlad: sorry for the delay in getting the changes done. Now ready for review
21:06:15 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/pendingreview
21:06:46 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: have reviewed the spec changes
21:07:03 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: found a few minor typoes, nothing major, will send to list
21:07:08 [ChrisL]
action-184?
21:07:08 [trackbot]
action-184 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Add test for valid collection to spec & cts -- due 2015-09-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
21:07:08 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/184
21:07:47 [ChrisL]
Vlad: if it rejects a collection, it still passes which is bogus so we add a conformance requirement to accept valid font collections and do something with it
21:08:04 [ChrisL]
... just a placeholder pn the CTS plan
21:08:25 [ChrisL]
https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent#mustLoadFontCollection
21:08:26 [jfkthame_]
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21:08:32 [ChrisL]
(it is fine)
21:08:52 [ChrisL]
close action-184
21:08:53 [trackbot]
Closed action-184.
21:08:56 [ChrisL]
action-187?
21:08:56 [trackbot]
action-187 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Incorporate jonathans hmtx suggestion into spec -- due 2015-10-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
21:08:56 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/187
21:09:15 [ChrisL]
http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#hmtx_table_format
21:10:01 [ChrisL]
Vlad: several changes there, lets review all of them
21:10:19 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: Think I am satisfied by these changes, it seems ok
21:10:47 [ChrisL]
Vlad: original draft had hmtx transformation mandatory, now it is optional as discussed at f2f
21:11:05 [ChrisL]
close action-187
21:11:05 [trackbot]
Closed action-187.
21:11:09 [ChrisL]
action-188?
21:11:09 [trackbot]
action-188 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Update spec for flags, weith glyf and loca treated specially for historical reasons -- due 2015-10-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
21:11:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/188
21:11:41 [ChrisL]
Vlad: as discussed at f2f, stepping back from original hard andate on glyf and loca transforms, allow encoder to be more flexible.
21:11:53 [ChrisL]
s/andate/mandate
21:12:00 [RSheeter]
http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#conform-transformedLocaMustAccompanyGlyf
21:12:35 [ChrisL]
... so we made it possible to not transform, using a special flag. if both set to 1, tables are not transformed.
21:12:54 [ChrisL]
... so gives us 0 through 2 and space for other transforms
21:13:27 [ChrisL]
Vlad: added to spec and placeholders to CTS plan
21:13:39 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: lgtm
21:14:58 [ChrisL]
Vlad: special case is section 5.3, added condition to say actual transfrm 0 is optional, conditional on the other table ie do it to both or neither
21:15:24 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: seems clear to me
21:15:29 [ChrisL]
close action-188
21:15:29 [trackbot]
Closed action-188.
21:15:34 [ChrisL]
action-189?
21:15:34 [trackbot]
action-189 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Clarify about shared hmtx tables, can only transform if all glyf tables match -- due 2015-10-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
21:15:34 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/189
21:16:24 [ChrisL]
Vlad: depends on checking for all fonts in a collection, to look for shared tables
21:16:38 [ChrisL]
... change discussed at f2f
21:17:41 [ChrisL]
Vlad: this is also relevant to action-190
21:17:46 [ChrisL]
action-190?
21:17:46 [trackbot]
action-190 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Add conf reqt on at and ff to test for non-transformable shared hmtx with non-atching metrics in the two glyf tables -- due 2015-10-20 -- OPEN
21:17:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/190
21:18:27 [ChrisL]
Vlad: not sure how to test without making it very complicated
21:18:45 [ChrisL]
Vlad: see comments on http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/190
21:20:01 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: we don't test a lot of invalid bytestreams that the decoder still has to deal with.
21:20:24 [ChrisL]
... happy to leave this one as an untestable (FF)
21:21:12 [ChrisL]
Vlad: so if we reconsider, just close the action with no change
21:21:38 [ChrisL]
... can keep open looking for new data
21:21:43 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: just close it
21:22:03 [ChrisL]
close action-190
21:22:03 [trackbot]
Closed action-190.
21:22:44 [ChrisL]
close action-189
21:22:44 [trackbot]
Closed action-189.
21:23:07 [ChrisL]
topic: open action items
21:23:08 [ChrisL]
http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/open
21:24:24 [ChrisL]
topic: remaining public comments
21:24:48 [ChrisL]
Vlad: we still have some open issues from publiuc comment, need to close before requesting Candidate Recommendation
21:25:02 [ChrisL]
... issues with how some things are worded, c-like structures
21:25:58 [RSheeter]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webfonts-wg/2015Nov/0000.html
21:26:02 [ChrisL]
Vlad: from frederick, some issues are marked as deferred
21:26:57 [ChrisL]
Vlad: some changes impact existing implementation, hence deferred. Nice to have it clean and pure but we have to consider the cost
21:27:18 [ChrisL]
s/frederick/Frédéric
21:28:20 [ChrisL]
Vlad: his second comment was related to uint128 datatype
21:28:42 [ChrisL]
... would improve spec but is a breaking change
21:29:01 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: does it make the spec clearer?
21:29:03 [ChrisL]
Vlad: no
21:29:23 [ChrisL]
... he wants to eliminate the chance for overlap
21:29:39 [ChrisL]
.. not a simple improvement. Invalidates all existing fonts
21:30:01 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: prefer not to invalidate all deployed fonts
21:30:16 [ChrisL]
jfkthame_: might have been better, but benefir no longer wirth the breakage cost
21:30:21 [ChrisL]
Vlad: feel the same way
21:30:49 [ChrisL]
resolved: do not change how uint128 works because it would break all deployed fonts
21:31:24 [ChrisL]
jfkthame_: he is wanting pseudo code, not a format change
21:31:30 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: I like that in a spec
21:32:13 [ChrisL]
action: RSheeter to come up with pseudo code for the uint base128 description
21:32:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-191 - Come up with pseudo code for the uint base128 description [on Roderick Sheeter - due 2015-12-09].
21:32:54 [ChrisL]
Vlad: table tags comment
21:33:17 [ChrisL]
... he is asking why allow a known table to be encoded as custom tag
21:33:26 [ChrisL]
jfkthame_: have always wondered
21:33:47 [RSheeter]
we all want to know ... who is then left to answer :D
21:34:03 [ChrisL]
... we no longer rely, with the flag bits, on table tags to see if it is transformed or not
21:34:28 [ChrisL]
... it is all defined by flags. That one would trigger impl changes, does not affect existing fonts
21:35:12 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: would disallowing it have any impact
21:35:24 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: our code already does it that way
21:35:36 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: Vlad do you have a secret encoder?
21:35:39 [ChrisL]
(laughs)
21:36:12 [ChrisL]
resolved: accept change, known tags must use known tag format not custom tag format
21:36:40 [ChrisL]
jfkthame_: so that need s a new decoder test. in theory this affect backwards compat, in practice it will not
21:37:53 [ChrisL]
Vlad: next deferred one is why the decoder should verify the checksum
21:39:05 [ChrisL]
Vlad: need to find out exactly what he is asking there
21:39:43 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: is it his question that is unclar?
21:39:56 [ChrisL]
Vlad: no, need to follow up his references. discuss in email
21:41:01 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: does the mathml get rendered properly?
21:41:05 [ChrisL]
Vlad: no!
21:41:28 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: prefer to say "it is C integer division" in words
21:41:55 [RSheeter]
even better specify what that actually means
21:42:03 [jfkthame_]
or write it as "4 * floor( (numGlyphs + 31) / 32)"
21:42:20 [ChrisL]
Vlad: alternative is to keep original and add it is C notation. Division is C integer division
21:42:20 [RSheeter]
I like that
21:42:38 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: like that too
21:43:08 [ChrisL]
action: vlad to insert "4 * floor( (numGlyphs + 31) / 32)"
21:43:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-192 - Insert "4 * floor( (numglyphs + 31) / 32)" [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2015-12-09].
21:44:01 [ChrisL]
Vlad: last comment was related to defining flag components, bitshify vs explicit ref to bit numbers, like OT spec does
21:44:11 [ChrisL]
... seems reasonable
21:44:28 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: prefer the bitshift version better, but not a strong opinion
21:45:06 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: issue is they say bit 1, is that 0 or 1?
21:45:28 [ChrisL]
Vlad: OT spec uses 0 to 15, so it is clearly defined
21:46:48 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: clearer to me, but not necessarily the entire world. either is fine
21:47:02 [ChrisL]
resolved: accept the comment on bit numbers
21:47:44 [ChrisL]
Vlad: last question is already addressed. lsb vs lsb
21:48:27 [ChrisL]
(adjourned)
21:48:33 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:48:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
22:00:40 [ChrisL]
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22:01:30 [ChrisL]
present+ Rod, David, jfkthame, Sergey, Ken, Vlad, Chris
22:01:45 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
22:01:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/02-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
23:40:13 [jdaggett]
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