IRC log of aria-apg on 2015-11-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:44:55 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:44:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/30-aria-apg-irc
17:45:27 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
17:45:27 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Placement and format of design paterns for structural ARIA elements like landmarks and lists; draft example of landmarks pattern by John https://rawgit.com/jongund/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html
17:45:27 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review bug fixes for menu and menubar pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html
17:45:38 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review bug fixes for menubutton design pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html
17:45:45 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html
17:52:31 [MichielBijl]
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17:53:21 [jemma_ku]
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17:53:25 [jemma_ku]
hi
17:57:18 [jemma_ku]
can I get meeting pw?
17:58:14 [jemma_ku]
I understand and it is easy pw
18:00:29 [mck]
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18:00:54 [annabbott]
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18:01:00 [jamesn]
present+ JamesNurthen
18:01:23 [annabbott]
present+ AnnAbbott
18:01:36 [jemma_ku]
present+ jemma_jaeun_Ku
18:01:36 [MichielBijl]
present+ Michiel_Bijl
18:04:43 [jongund]
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18:10:40 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make log world
18:13:19 [mck]
test
18:13:35 [jamesn]
agenda?
18:15:17 [jamesn]
zakim, pick a victim
18:15:17 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose JamesNurthen
18:15:19 [MichielBijl]
scribe: MichielBijl
18:16:58 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next
18:16:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'next', MichielBijl
18:17:00 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
18:17:00 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from jamesn]
18:17:25 [MichielBijl]
MK: Have edited the first column of the status table
18:17:50 [MichielBijl]
MK: dialog modal isn't quite ready
18:18:06 [MichielBijl]
MK: put Jon's name in the edit column for landmarks
18:18:22 [MichielBijl]
MK: those are the changes that have been made recently
18:19:04 [MichielBijl]
MK: any takers for menu/menubutton?
18:19:13 [MichielBijl]
JG: me and Jemma can take that
18:19:23 [MichielBijl]
AA: I can help with landmarks.
18:20:59 [MichielBijl]
JN: Jon and Jemma, you still have radio/checkbox group to do.
18:21:43 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
18:21:43 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Placement and format of design paterns for structural ARIA elements like landmarks and lists; draft example of landmarks pattern by John
18:21:45 [Zakim]
... https://rawgit.com/jongund/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
18:22:08 [MichielBijl]
MK: agenda item for larger topic
18:22:26 [MichielBijl]
MK: where do we put stuff in the guide related to non interactive widgets
18:22:55 [MichielBijl]
MK: there may be deswign patterns like landmarks, but not have them limited to interactive role
18:23:01 [MichielBijl]
s/deswign/design
18:23:19 [MichielBijl]
MK: or have a separate section for them
18:23:34 [MichielBijl]
MK: do you want us to look at your example content first Jon?
18:23:43 [MichielBijl]
MK: did you do some writing at that link?
18:24:03 [MichielBijl]
JG: started to write some stuff. But looked at overall structure. Need to talk about.
18:24:20 [MichielBijl]
JG: right now there is a landmark section
18:24:32 [MichielBijl]
JG: I think we should have a section for non-interactive widgets.
18:24:59 [MichielBijl]
JG: we have a lot of them: map, list, etc
18:25:43 [MichielBijl]
JG: help developers find them easier
18:26:01 [MichielBijl]
MK: do we want an index section of the document?
18:27:36 [MichielBijl]
regrets+ Léonie_Watson
18:27:56 [MichielBijl]
MK: if we have that in our guide, it would be easier for people who are using it to use it as a reference
18:28:37 [MichielBijl]
MK: why would you separate interactive and non-interactive, what about cases where it's not clear?
18:28:52 [MichielBijl]
JG: have a section for landmark roles
18:31:30 [MichielBijl]
chair: Matt_King
18:34:51 [MichielBijl]
JG: me and Ann will propose a solution/example and we'll take it from there
18:38:42 [annabbott]
Jon & Ann: landmarks on Dec 14 agenda
18:39:03 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
18:39:03 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Review bug fixes for menu and menubar pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
18:39:43 [MichielBijl]
MK: I'll merge after the call
18:40:17 [MichielBijl]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html#menu
18:42:00 [jemma_ku]
https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html#h-menu
18:42:24 [MichielBijl]
MK: removed references to desktop applications
18:43:19 [MichielBijl]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/compare/apg_menuPattern
18:45:24 [MichielBijl]
MK: made keyboard section shorter and added notes to clarify
18:48:03 [MichielBijl]
JN: don't want to add links to everything
18:49:31 [MichielBijl]
AA: remove the link on menu button?
18:49:43 [MichielBijl]
JN: no, links to separate section
18:51:17 [MichielBijl]
MK: interested to know if the keyboard section is an improvement
18:51:32 [MichielBijl]
MK: the other thing I tried to do is be consistent if we talk about keys
18:53:35 [MichielBijl]
JN: would you tab to a container?
18:53:43 [MichielBijl]
JN: why not?
18:53:48 [MichielBijl]
JN: you would tab to it.
18:54:01 [MichielBijl]
MK: you would tab to an element that contains a menu
18:54:13 [MichielBijl]
s/contains/activates
18:54:30 [MichielBijl]
MK: if you put on menubar you could tab to a container
18:55:44 [Birkir]
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18:56:34 [MichielBijl]
JN: I have a question about up/down arrow
18:57:49 [MichielBijl]
JN: you wouldn't use up/down for first/last if it is vertical
18:57:52 [MichielBijl]
MK: you could
18:59:08 [MichielBijl]
MK: on the wrapping behaviour
19:00:23 [MichielBijl]
MK: do we want to enforce it or make it optional
19:01:45 [MichielBijl]
MK: really like to encourage this
19:01:58 [Birkir]
This is highly desirable for large menus (arbitrarily saying 8 menus or more), but for small menus with few items, it is less important.
19:02:03 [MichielBijl]
JN: why do we want this
19:02:35 [Birkir]
I'd vote for "optional but nice", to use my invented technical term.
19:04:26 [MichielBijl]
MK: *long story* it's easier if you go through a menu and make up your mind if you're on the last item
19:04:48 [MichielBijl]
MK: you can just wrap to the first item
19:07:37 [MichielBijl]
AA: so make wrapping optional?
19:17:29 [MichielBijl]
MK: main bug in menu button, don't duplicate anything that is in menu
19:22:30 [jemma_ku]
Thanks, Micheil. I sent you an email.
19:22:52 [jemma_ku]
s/Micheil/Michiel
19:23:33 [jemma_ku]
I have another meeting in 7 min
19:25:21 [MichielBijl]
MK: thank you all, great feedback
19:26:54 [MichielBijl]
AA: I'm seeing a bunch of other variations on setting properties.
19:27:28 [MichielBijl]
BG: are you removing quotes?
19:27:43 [MichielBijl]
MK: removing quotes and add “to“
19:28:36 [MichielBijl]
MB: I like having the quotes, makes it easier
19:28:57 [MichielBijl]
MK: we don't have it consistently.
19:29:18 [MichielBijl]
MB: maybe later
19:29:19 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
19:29:19 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Review bug fixes for menubutton design pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/apg_menuPattern/practices/aria-practices.html" taken up [from jamesn]
19:29:34 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
19:29:34 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:29:38 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
19:29:38 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:29:48 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, close item
19:29:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close item', MichielBijl
19:29:50 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
19:29:50 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:30:13 [MichielBijl]
NOTE: covered in previous discussion
19:30:13 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
19:30:13 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:30:39 [mck]
zakim, take agendum item 5
19:30:39 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'take agendum item 5', mck
19:30:53 [mck]
zakim, take up agendum item 5
19:30:53 [Zakim]
'item\ 5' does not match any agenda item, mck
19:31:10 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, take up item 5
19:31:10 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html" taken up [from jamesn]
19:31:13 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, take up item 5
19:31:13 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
19:31:14 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html" taken up [from jamesn]
19:31:14 [Zakim]
agendum 5 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:31:16 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, next item
19:31:16 [Zakim]
agendum 5 was just opened, MichielBijl
19:31:30 [jemma_ku]
take up item agenda 5
19:32:06 [mck]
TOPIC: Review revised descriptive text for example of mixed checkbox
19:32:23 [mck]
https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html
19:33:22 [MichielBijl]
MK: semantics typo in first sentence
19:33:29 [MichielBijl]
JK: I'll fix it
19:34:00 [MichielBijl]
MK: third bullet “This set of example” should be “This set of examples”
19:36:47 [MichielBijl]
MK: how come there are square brackets around role=checkbox?
19:37:05 [MichielBijl]
MB: only makes sense if you're talking about CSS selectors; which we are not
19:45:29 [jemma_ku]
michiel, we don't hear you
19:45:45 [jemma_ku]
you are on mute
19:45:54 [mck]
One way to write it: The <code>div</code> element with role <code>checkbox</code>
19:48:18 [MichielBijl]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:48:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/30-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
19:49:19 [MichielBijl]
present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:49:37 [MichielBijl]
RRSAgent, make minutes
19:49:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/30-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl