14:58:10 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:58:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/26-tt-irc 14:58:12 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:58:12 Zakim has joined #tt 14:58:14 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:58:14 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:58:15 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:58:15 Date: 26 November 2015 14:59:24 tmichel has joined #tt 15:00:03 Present: nigel 15:00:07 Chair: nigel 15:00:09 scribe: nigel 15:00:13 Regrets: dakim 15:00:54 Regrets+ Frans 15:02:29 Present+ pal 15:02:45 pal has joined #tt 15:03:32 Present+ tmichel 15:03:42 Topic: This meeting 15:03:54 pal: Maybe we can close the loop on the process issue 15:04:00 ... Also possibly the aspect ratio issue 15:04:18 ... And review the new issue on smpte:backgroundImage in case we can close it straight away. 15:04:23 ... So we can make some progress. 15:04:38 nigel: Agreed. So we'll focus on IMSC 1. 15:04:58 nigel: AOB? 15:05:00 group: none. 15:05:07 Topic: IMSC issues, pull requests etc 15:05:48 pal: Can we start with the process question? 15:06:27 ... In issue-92 nigel noted that the document still references the 2014 process. It was 15:06:32 atai has joined #tt 15:06:38 ... mentioned that we automatically adopt the new process with revisions, so it should 15:06:49 ... be updated to 2015. I don't remember discussing it - maybe it's not an issue because 15:07:01 ... the changes are not meaningful to us this time, but in the future, automatic adoption 15:07:13 ... of new process documents in the middle of developing a new document could be 15:07:16 ... really disruptive. 15:07:41 nigel: I think this is really important - I couldn't find the source of this assertion either. 15:07:54 tmichel: As I recall the only process change we approved was to 2014 but for the latest 15:08:00 ... it was not discussed within the group. 15:08:06 pal: That matches my recollection too. 15:08:19 tmichel: Then if we want to adopt the new process we should check with the group if 15:08:33 ... everyone is happy with it. Who requested that we use the latest process by the way? 15:08:59 nigel: I'm pretty sure that plh asserted that having adopted the 2014 process we by default adopt future versions as well. 15:09:07 ... I can't see where that's written down though. 15:09:18 pal: I've searched through the Process document and can see no such thing. 15:09:21 nigel: Me too! 15:09:37 tmichel: It would be odd to me if it says that. 15:10:21 nigel: In that case it looks as though we have not agreed to adopt the 2015 process. 15:10:37 tmichel: Shall I investigate if we are required to move to the 2015 process or we can proceed with the 2014 one? 15:10:42 nigel: Yes please. 15:11:41 tmichel: Is the concern just for IMSC or also for TTML2 and WebVTT? 15:11:49 pal_ has joined #tt 15:11:58 nigel: It's for everything - we need to be clear which process we're working under. 15:12:20 nigel: Also by the way I'm pretty sure there are no substantive differences that would affect us with the 2015 process. 15:12:31 tmichel: It's not a major change like it was to adopt 2014. 15:13:38 nigel: There is actually a Latest Operative Version link so we need to go back and check which one we said we'd adopt: http://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/ 15:13:54 pal: Maybe it's simpler not to adopt unless we're compelled to, then we don't have to make any changes. 15:15:39 pal__ has joined #tt 15:15:49 nigel: We have 2 choices (unless we're compelled to move to 2015): 15:15:55 ... 1. Stay with 2014 15:16:14 ... 2. Propose to adopt 2015, use our Decision Process and then adopt it and update our specs accordingly. 15:16:58 Action: tmichel Investigate if we are required to move to the 2015 process 15:16:58 Created ACTION-451 - Investigate if we are required to move to the 2015 process [on Thierry Michel - due 2015-12-03]. 15:17:10 tmichel: I'll be able to report back on this at the next telecon 15:17:29 pal: You can also put the answer in issue #92, which we may be able to close directly. 15:17:37 nigel: We need the info in the meeting also. 15:17:54 tmichel: I'll first find out the situation and then we can make a decision about changing the document. 15:17:57 pal: Sounds good. 15:18:14 https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/92 15:18:33 Can not access Webex details from member archive...can some send me the link please? Thanks! 15:18:47 nigel: Shall we look at the aspectRatio issue? 15:18:57 pal: Yes, you mentioned to me that there may be some more feedback on this. 15:19:39 nigel: There's nothing formal yet - a group is considering if it would be beneficial in addition to ttp:aspectRatio also to signal a safe area, 15:19:58 ... outside of which the document contains no regions. This would allow for some scaling 15:20:09 ... scenarios to be met that can't otherwise be handled. 15:21:55 ... Until we receive something formal we can't formally respond though. 15:22:14 pal: Okay then we can probably close issue #84 https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/84 next week. 15:22:44 nigel: Have I reviewed the note for that? 15:22:54 pal: Yes, and I think from your comments that you're happy so we can close it next week. 15:22:57 nigel: Yes. 15:25:46 pal: The next issue is regarding smpte:backgroundImage https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/97 15:27:43 Present+ atai 15:30:48 nigel: Looking at this in detail, the #image feature is defined by SMPTE-TT, but that 15:31:04 ... has a weird referencing problem, in that it defines conformance in relation to its 15:31:20 ... section 5.7.3, but the backgroundImage semantics are defined in a different section, 15:31:32 ... being 5.5.3. 15:33:50 pal: So the bug here is in ST2052 §5.9.2 missing the reference to §5.5.2. 15:34:04 nigel: Agree - that's a bug in SMPTE-TT, but it doesn't help us here! 15:34:20 pal: We can just put a note that this bug exists. 15:35:17 nigel: Well that wouldn't help the formal problem. 15:35:43 pal: I think we're overthinking this - it's clearly enumerated as part of the vocabulary. 15:36:04 nigel: I'm not sure if it's a note or something more formal but I would suggest specifying 15:36:42 ... that we mean to include the definition of smpte:backgroundImage from ST2052 §5.5.3 in the vocabulary supported by the #image extension. 15:36:59 nigel: Ideally that would normative. 15:37:54 pal: I think it's unambiguous but if you had an issue reading it then we can add the note. 15:38:02 nigel: Okay I'll add a comment about this to the issue. 15:39:00 pal: Can we close the duplicate https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/93 ? 15:39:05 nigel: yes, no problem 15:39:30 ... done. 15:39:49 pal: The rest are either for review or I have some actions to do for IMSC 2. 15:40:34 Topic: TTML and WebVTT Mapping Document 15:40:41 nigel: Andreas, are you going to migrate this to git? 15:41:40 atai: Yes, I need to check about the detail of how to do this. If I don't have enough information I'll come back to nigel and plh to ask for more. 15:41:58 nigel: Pierre, how did you do it for IMSC? 15:42:32 pal: I used a script that converts a Mercurial repo to a git repo, so I just did that. 15:42:48 ... I created a local git repo, imported all of the IMSC 1 Mercurial repo into that, then I 15:43:01 ... merged into that git repo the one that plh put up in github, then pushed all my changes 15:43:04 ... back into github. 15:43:40 pal: Did plh set up the repo on github already? 15:43:50 nigel: Yes he did, at https://github.com/w3c/ttml-webvtt-mapping 15:43:58 atai: He did not merge the repo. 15:44:15 pal: Yes, you have to do that yourself. Create a local github repo, then use the 15:44:28 ... Mercurial to Git script to move everything across, then separately check out the 15:44:47 ... github repo, and merge into the local copy of the github repo the converted git repo, 15:44:52 ... then push back upstream. 15:45:05 atai: That's feasible. My only question was how to restrict it. 15:45:21 pal: There's a git command that allows you to pick a directory and delete all others, and 15:45:36 ... make that one a root directory. I did that after the Mercurial to git conversion. 15:45:53 ... The command that re-roots keeps all history. 15:46:39 atai: Would you be able to describe this in a few lines? 15:46:46 pal: If you send me a reminder email I'll do that. 15:46:54 atai: Thank you! That's perfect. 15:47:02 pal: If you have branches that makes it really painful. 15:47:06 atai: We don't have any. 15:47:17 ... Do we need to move anything else like the test suite? 15:47:34 pal: For IMSC? 15:47:43 nigel: They're moved already - they're in sub-directories of the top level. 15:48:21 Topic: AOB 15:48:44 atai: Pierre, Nigel and I did a presentation at IBC on TTML, EBU-TT-D and IMSC. Should we share the slides somehow? 15:48:58 nigel: Just natively? 15:49:11 atai: Maybe the easiest is to email it as a PDF to the list. 15:49:56 nigel: I did do that presentation as chair of TTWG, so I don't mind sharing the slides. 15:50:15 ... Maybe the best thing is to upload to the wiki? 15:50:32 pal: Yes, although I'd rather avoid putting on the official TTWG wiki things that are not 15:50:49 ... official TTWG. My recommendation is for someone to host it and send a link to the 15:50:55 ... reflector. That would be my preference. 15:51:34 nigel: We did do the presentation on the EBU stand so it might make sense to see if EBU 15:51:41 ... can host the slides also. 15:51:43 fwtnb has joined #tt 15:51:47 pal: That would be a lot cleaner. 15:52:30 Action: nigel Check with Frans about hosting the IBC slides on the EBU space, and send a link around. 15:52:30 Created ACTION-452 - Check with frans about hosting the ibc slides on the ebu space, and send a link around. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-12-03]. 15:53:47 nigel: Looking at future meetings, I've not put any in for 24th and 31st December, with 15:54:04 ... a restart on Jan 7. Hope that's okay with everyone. 15:55:26 pal: Yes, fine. I hope to publish a new CR of IMSC 1 by year's end, and see no blockers. 15:55:47 nigel: We need to merge all the PRs next week and agree a resolution to proceed with a 15:55:56 ... new CR. When do the PR review periods end? 15:56:02 pal: Some of them end on Tuesday. 15:56:14 nigel: Then we can put out a call for consensus ahead of the meeting to avoid surprising 15:56:25 ... anyone, and avoid falling foul of the Decision Process. 15:56:34 nigel: Okay, that's on the agenda for next week. 15:58:03 nigel: That's all for this week, thanks everyone, see you same time next week. [adjourns meeting] 15:58:08 rrsagent, make minutes 15:58:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:59:57 s/Can not access Webex details from member archive...can some send me the link please? Thanks!/ 16:01:28 s/... new CR./nigel: new CR. 16:01:36 rrsagent, make minutes 16:01:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:02:47 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:02:48 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/26-tt-minutes.html nigel 20:06:25 Zakim has left #tt