IRC log of tt on 2015-11-26

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logging to
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14:58:12 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:58:15 [trackbot]
Date: 26 November 2015
14:59:24 [tmichel]
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15:00:03 [nigel]
Present: nigel
15:00:07 [nigel]
Chair: nigel
15:00:09 [nigel]
scribe: nigel
15:00:13 [nigel]
Regrets: dakim
15:00:54 [nigel]
Regrets+ Frans
15:02:29 [nigel]
Present+ pal
15:02:45 [pal]
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15:03:32 [nigel]
Present+ tmichel
15:03:42 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
15:03:54 [nigel]
pal: Maybe we can close the loop on the process issue
15:04:00 [nigel]
... Also possibly the aspect ratio issue
15:04:18 [nigel]
... And review the new issue on smpte:backgroundImage in case we can close it straight away.
15:04:23 [nigel]
... So we can make some progress.
15:04:38 [nigel]
nigel: Agreed. So we'll focus on IMSC 1.
15:04:58 [nigel]
nigel: AOB?
15:05:00 [nigel]
group: none.
15:05:07 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC issues, pull requests etc
15:05:48 [nigel]
pal: Can we start with the process question?
15:06:27 [nigel]
... In issue-92 nigel noted that the document still references the 2014 process. It was
15:06:32 [atai]
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15:06:38 [nigel]
... mentioned that we automatically adopt the new process with revisions, so it should
15:06:49 [nigel]
... be updated to 2015. I don't remember discussing it - maybe it's not an issue because
15:07:01 [nigel]
... the changes are not meaningful to us this time, but in the future, automatic adoption
15:07:13 [nigel]
... of new process documents in the middle of developing a new document could be
15:07:16 [nigel]
... really disruptive.
15:07:41 [nigel]
nigel: I think this is really important - I couldn't find the source of this assertion either.
15:07:54 [nigel]
tmichel: As I recall the only process change we approved was to 2014 but for the latest
15:08:00 [nigel]
... it was not discussed within the group.
15:08:06 [nigel]
pal: That matches my recollection too.
15:08:19 [nigel]
tmichel: Then if we want to adopt the new process we should check with the group if
15:08:33 [nigel]
... everyone is happy with it. Who requested that we use the latest process by the way?
15:08:59 [nigel]
nigel: I'm pretty sure that plh asserted that having adopted the 2014 process we by default adopt future versions as well.
15:09:07 [nigel]
... I can't see where that's written down though.
15:09:18 [nigel]
pal: I've searched through the Process document and can see no such thing.
15:09:21 [nigel]
nigel: Me too!
15:09:37 [nigel]
tmichel: It would be odd to me if it says that.
15:10:21 [nigel]
nigel: In that case it looks as though we have not agreed to adopt the 2015 process.
15:10:37 [nigel]
tmichel: Shall I investigate if we are required to move to the 2015 process or we can proceed with the 2014 one?
15:10:42 [nigel]
nigel: Yes please.
15:11:41 [nigel]
tmichel: Is the concern just for IMSC or also for TTML2 and WebVTT?
15:11:49 [pal_]
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15:11:58 [nigel]
nigel: It's for everything - we need to be clear which process we're working under.
15:12:20 [nigel]
nigel: Also by the way I'm pretty sure there are no substantive differences that would affect us with the 2015 process.
15:12:31 [nigel]
tmichel: It's not a major change like it was to adopt 2014.
15:13:38 [nigel]
nigel: There is actually a Latest Operative Version link so we need to go back and check which one we said we'd adopt:
15:13:54 [nigel]
pal: Maybe it's simpler not to adopt unless we're compelled to, then we don't have to make any changes.
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15:15:49 [nigel]
nigel: We have 2 choices (unless we're compelled to move to 2015):
15:15:55 [nigel]
... 1. Stay with 2014
15:16:14 [nigel]
... 2. Propose to adopt 2015, use our Decision Process and then adopt it and update our specs accordingly.
15:16:58 [nigel]
Action: tmichel Investigate if we are required to move to the 2015 process
15:16:58 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-451 - Investigate if we are required to move to the 2015 process [on Thierry Michel - due 2015-12-03].
15:17:10 [nigel]
tmichel: I'll be able to report back on this at the next telecon
15:17:29 [nigel]
pal: You can also put the answer in issue #92, which we may be able to close directly.
15:17:37 [nigel]
nigel: We need the info in the meeting also.
15:17:54 [nigel]
tmichel: I'll first find out the situation and then we can make a decision about changing the document.
15:17:57 [nigel]
pal: Sounds good.
15:18:14 [nigel]
15:18:33 [atai]
Can not access Webex details from member archive...can some send me the link please? Thanks!
15:18:47 [nigel]
nigel: Shall we look at the aspectRatio issue?
15:18:57 [nigel]
pal: Yes, you mentioned to me that there may be some more feedback on this.
15:19:39 [nigel]
nigel: There's nothing formal yet - a group is considering if it would be beneficial in addition to ttp:aspectRatio also to signal a safe area,
15:19:58 [nigel]
... outside of which the document contains no regions. This would allow for some scaling
15:20:09 [nigel]
... scenarios to be met that can't otherwise be handled.
15:21:55 [nigel]
... Until we receive something formal we can't formally respond though.
15:22:14 [nigel]
pal: Okay then we can probably close issue #84 next week.
15:22:44 [nigel]
nigel: Have I reviewed the note for that?
15:22:54 [nigel]
pal: Yes, and I think from your comments that you're happy so we can close it next week.
15:22:57 [nigel]
nigel: Yes.
15:25:46 [nigel]
pal: The next issue is regarding smpte:backgroundImage
15:27:43 [nigel]
Present+ atai
15:30:48 [nigel]
nigel: Looking at this in detail, the #image feature is defined by SMPTE-TT, but that
15:31:04 [nigel]
... has a weird referencing problem, in that it defines conformance in relation to its
15:31:20 [nigel]
... section 5.7.3, but the backgroundImage semantics are defined in a different section,
15:31:32 [nigel]
... being 5.5.3.
15:33:50 [nigel]
pal: So the bug here is in ST2052 §5.9.2 missing the reference to §5.5.2.
15:34:04 [nigel]
nigel: Agree - that's a bug in SMPTE-TT, but it doesn't help us here!
15:34:20 [nigel]
pal: We can just put a note that this bug exists.
15:35:17 [nigel]
nigel: Well that wouldn't help the formal problem.
15:35:43 [nigel]
pal: I think we're overthinking this - it's clearly enumerated as part of the vocabulary.
15:36:04 [nigel]
nigel: I'm not sure if it's a note or something more formal but I would suggest specifying
15:36:42 [nigel]
... that we mean to include the definition of smpte:backgroundImage from ST2052 §5.5.3 in the vocabulary supported by the #image extension.
15:36:59 [nigel]
nigel: Ideally that would normative.
15:37:54 [nigel]
pal: I think it's unambiguous but if you had an issue reading it then we can add the note.
15:38:02 [nigel]
nigel: Okay I'll add a comment about this to the issue.
15:39:00 [nigel]
pal: Can we close the duplicate ?
15:39:05 [nigel]
nigel: yes, no problem
15:39:30 [nigel]
... done.
15:39:49 [nigel]
pal: The rest are either for review or I have some actions to do for IMSC 2.
15:40:34 [nigel]
Topic: TTML and WebVTT Mapping Document
15:40:41 [nigel]
nigel: Andreas, are you going to migrate this to git?
15:41:40 [nigel]
atai: Yes, I need to check about the detail of how to do this. If I don't have enough information I'll come back to nigel and plh to ask for more.
15:41:58 [nigel]
nigel: Pierre, how did you do it for IMSC?
15:42:32 [nigel]
pal: I used a script that converts a Mercurial repo to a git repo, so I just did that.
15:42:48 [nigel]
... I created a local git repo, imported all of the IMSC 1 Mercurial repo into that, then I
15:43:01 [nigel]
... merged into that git repo the one that plh put up in github, then pushed all my changes
15:43:04 [nigel]
... back into github.
15:43:40 [nigel]
pal: Did plh set up the repo on github already?
15:43:50 [nigel]
nigel: Yes he did, at
15:43:58 [nigel]
atai: He did not merge the repo.
15:44:15 [nigel]
pal: Yes, you have to do that yourself. Create a local github repo, then use the
15:44:28 [nigel]
... Mercurial to Git script to move everything across, then separately check out the
15:44:47 [nigel]
... github repo, and merge into the local copy of the github repo the converted git repo,
15:44:52 [nigel]
... then push back upstream.
15:45:05 [nigel]
atai: That's feasible. My only question was how to restrict it.
15:45:21 [nigel]
pal: There's a git command that allows you to pick a directory and delete all others, and
15:45:36 [nigel]
... make that one a root directory. I did that after the Mercurial to git conversion.
15:45:53 [nigel]
... The command that re-roots keeps all history.
15:46:39 [nigel]
atai: Would you be able to describe this in a few lines?
15:46:46 [nigel]
pal: If you send me a reminder email I'll do that.
15:46:54 [nigel]
atai: Thank you! That's perfect.
15:47:02 [nigel]
pal: If you have branches that makes it really painful.
15:47:06 [nigel]
atai: We don't have any.
15:47:17 [nigel]
... Do we need to move anything else like the test suite?
15:47:34 [nigel]
pal: For IMSC?
15:47:43 [nigel]
nigel: They're moved already - they're in sub-directories of the top level.
15:48:21 [nigel]
Topic: AOB
15:48:44 [nigel]
atai: Pierre, Nigel and I did a presentation at IBC on TTML, EBU-TT-D and IMSC. Should we share the slides somehow?
15:48:58 [nigel]
nigel: Just natively?
15:49:11 [nigel]
atai: Maybe the easiest is to email it as a PDF to the list.
15:49:56 [nigel]
nigel: I did do that presentation as chair of TTWG, so I don't mind sharing the slides.
15:50:15 [nigel]
... Maybe the best thing is to upload to the wiki?
15:50:32 [nigel]
pal: Yes, although I'd rather avoid putting on the official TTWG wiki things that are not
15:50:49 [nigel]
... official TTWG. My recommendation is for someone to host it and send a link to the
15:50:55 [nigel]
... reflector. That would be my preference.
15:51:34 [nigel]
nigel: We did do the presentation on the EBU stand so it might make sense to see if EBU
15:51:41 [nigel]
... can host the slides also.
15:51:43 [fwtnb]
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15:51:47 [nigel]
pal: That would be a lot cleaner.
15:52:30 [nigel]
Action: nigel Check with Frans about hosting the IBC slides on the EBU space, and send a link around.
15:52:30 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-452 - Check with frans about hosting the ibc slides on the ebu space, and send a link around. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-12-03].
15:53:47 [nigel]
nigel: Looking at future meetings, I've not put any in for 24th and 31st December, with
15:54:04 [nigel]
... a restart on Jan 7. Hope that's okay with everyone.
15:55:26 [nigel]
pal: Yes, fine. I hope to publish a new CR of IMSC 1 by year's end, and see no blockers.
15:55:47 [nigel]
nigel: We need to merge all the PRs next week and agree a resolution to proceed with a
15:55:56 [nigel]
... new CR. When do the PR review periods end?
15:56:02 [nigel]
pal: Some of them end on Tuesday.
15:56:14 [nigel]
nigel: Then we can put out a call for consensus ahead of the meeting to avoid surprising
15:56:25 [nigel]
... anyone, and avoid falling foul of the Decision Process.
15:56:34 [nigel]
nigel: Okay, that's on the agenda for next week.
15:58:03 [nigel]
nigel: That's all for this week, thanks everyone, see you same time next week. [adjourns meeting]
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s/Can not access Webex details from member archive...can some send me the link please? Thanks!/
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s/... new CR./nigel: new CR.
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