13:52:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
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13:52:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:52:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:52:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:52:16 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
13:52:16 <trackbot> Date: 25 November 2015
13:52:40 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0035
13:52:49 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0035
13:52:55 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:52:59 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
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14:01:18 <Steven> Present: Steven, Alain, Erik
14:04:31 <Steven> Regrets+Nick
14:04:57 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2026: Add seconds-from-epoch function
14:04:57 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0016
14:04:57 <Steven> See: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/26-forms-minutes.html#item04
14:04:57 <Steven> Clarification:
14:04:57 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0034.html
14:05:42 <Steven> Erik: I did find an action item about making the clarification about namespaces, that we would have a new namespace
14:06:02 <Steven> ... but no action item for making the spec changes
14:06:24 <Steven> ... we need to agree on what changes are needed.
14:10:31 <Steven> Steven: The minutes where we discussed this are here: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/26-forms-minutes.html#item04
14:11:02 <Steven> ACTION 2025?
14:11:06 <ebruchez> http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-forms-minutes.html
14:11:07 <Steven> ACTION-2025?
14:11:07 <trackbot> ACTION-2025 -- Erik Bruchez to Deal with the naming over xpath versions -- due 2015-09-02 -- OPEN
14:11:07 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/actions/2025
14:11:36 <Steven> Erik: Here is a place where we discussed the namespace: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-forms-minutes.html#item04
14:12:52 <Steven> Steven: Is this the quote we need? "So it's like this - xf1: only contains all XForms functions, fn: only contains all XPath functions, and XF: contains both (less the clashes, where XPath functions are used, not the xf1 ones)"
14:13:37 <Steven> Erik: I replied "so we put the union of functions in the NEW namespace, which would be the default namespace
14:13:37 <Steven>  ... and then use xf: for the XForms-only namespace"
14:13:56 <Steven> Steven: Right
14:14:33 <Steven> ... so we didn't give the action item for who was going to write the spec text for that
14:15:38 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to provide new spec text for the two function namespaces
14:15:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2041 - Provide new spec text for the two function namespaces [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-12-02].
14:16:18 <Steven> Steven: So does that solve it all?
14:16:21 <Steven> Erik: Yes.
14:16:41 <Steven> Topic: Up/down pattern
14:16:41 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0024.html
14:16:41 <Steven> http://www.cwi.nl/~steven/forms/up-down.xml
14:17:05 <Steven> Steven: Looks like a good suggestion; do we include it?
14:17:18 <Steven> Alain: Sure.
14:17:22 <Steven> Erik: Sure.
14:17:59 <Steven> Steven: We were talking abbout patterns to put on the wiki, and this would be a good candidate for that as well.
14:18:17 <Steven> ACTION: Steven add up/down pattern to examples in spec
14:18:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2042 - Add up/down pattern to examples in spec [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-12-02].
14:18:40 <Steven> Topic: Corrections on JSON support
14:18:41 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0021.html
14:20:33 <Steven> Steven: 1 is obvious
14:21:49 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to make changes to JSON examples according to https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0021.html
14:21:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2043 - Make changes to json examples according to https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-xformsusers/2015nov/0021.html [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-12-02].
14:22:11 <Steven> Topic: JSON: empty arrays
14:22:11 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0022.html
14:23:04 <Steven> Erik: See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0031.html
14:23:10 <Steven> ... for an alternative
14:24:24 <Steven> Erik: You know something is an empty array because it has array="true"
14:24:37 <Steven> ... the empty top-level example is inconsistent
14:24:43 <Steven> ... it seems to me
14:25:04 <Steven> Steven: Your proposal is to fix that inconsistency.
14:26:37 <ebruchez> https://gist.github.com/ebruchez/fd1c8d88f7966a9f0707
14:26:49 <ebruchez> https://gist.github.com/ebruchez/fd1c8d88f7966a9f0707#file-json-schemes-xml-L44
14:27:21 <ebruchez> https://gist.github.com/ebruchez/fd1c8d88f7966a9f0707#file-json-schemes-xml-L85
14:28:12 <Steven> Erik: These examples show that it is much easier to manage arrays in the new format
14:28:42 <Steven> ... not having an enclosing element makes it harder to do
14:28:53 <Steven> s/abbout/about/
14:29:43 <Steven> ... it also removes the need to have object="true" and array="true"
14:31:02 <Steven> ... the XPath expressions we use look more natural, using the names of the JSON keys in the path; this only changes that slightly.
14:31:32 <ebruchez> I just lost you Steven
14:34:50 <ebruchez> did we lose you again?
14:38:38 <ebruchez> g[1]/_[2]
14:38:50 <Steven> Steven: It is true that the initial design was to make the selecters as natural as possible, but if there are other constraints, we should take those into account
14:39:05 <ebruchez> g/_[1]/_[2]
14:39:50 <Steven> Erik: It is unfortunate that the expressions are less natural, but it means that arrays are always consistently addressed
14:40:33 <Steven> Erik: But the fact that repeats and so on are much easier pushes me over to the nested element version
14:41:57 <Steven> Steven: I will work on the text then and submit a proposed new version before putting it in the spec
14:42:41 <Steven> Erik: Ive played with all the examples, it round-trips fine and so on, it is not problematic, just the repeat/insert/delete is difficult to do
14:43:18 <Steven> ACTION: Steven t update JSON text to include nested array notation from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0031.html
14:43:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2044 - T update json text to include nested array notation from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-xformsusers/2015nov/0031.html [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-12-02].
14:44:34 <Steven> Erik: It also simplifies the extra attributes, since we can do it all with @type
14:44:42 <Steven> Erik: Alain, have you tried it yet?
14:45:08 <Steven> Alain: I've tried the previous version, I'm also implementing new node types,
14:46:22 <Steven> ... I'm also adding the CSV support
14:46:57 <Steven> Steven: So you are happy with the changes Erik is suggestion
14:47:00 <Steven> Alain: Yes
14:47:29 <Steven> Topic: JSON: clarify escapes for the @name attribute
14:47:29 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0030.html
14:47:57 <Steven> Steven: Fine
14:48:02 <Steven> Erik: Obvious
14:48:20 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to fix JSON according to https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Nov/0030.html
14:48:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2045 - Fix json according to https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-xformsusers/2015nov/0030.html [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-12-02].
14:49:32 <Steven> Topic: AOB
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14:49:44 <Steven> Steven: Anything?
14:49:59 <Steven> Oh congrats Erik btw on the South Tirol job
14:50:11 <Steven> Another govt using XForms
14:50:23 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:50:28 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:50:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/25-forms-minutes.html Steven
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