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16:00:36 <kaz> Present: Paul_Boyes, Kaz_Ashimura, Qing_An, Shinjiro_Urata, Yingying_Chen
16:01:40 <kaz> Present: Paul_Boyes, Dave_Jensen, Kaz_Ashimura, Qing_An, Shinjiro_Urata, Yingying_Chen
16:02:41 <kaz> Present: Paul_Boyes, Adam_Crofts, Dave_Jensen, Kaz_Ashimura, Qing_An, Shinjiro_Urata, Yingying_Chen
16:03:11 <kaz> Present: Paul_Boyes, Adam_Crofts, Dave_Jensen, Junichi_Hashimoto, Kaz_Ashimura, Qing_An, Shinjiro_Urata, Yingying_Chen
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16:06:20 <kaz> topic: agenda
16:06:39 <kaz> paul: spec timeline, security update, etc.
16:06:59 <kaz> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-automotive/2015Nov/0017.html
16:07:50 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Main_Page#Publication_Schedule publication schedule so far
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16:08:31 <kaz> kaz: we should update the timeline
16:08:39 <kaz> ... FPWD already done
16:08:43 <paul> https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Main_Page
16:08:53 <kaz> ... and we're preparing the second draft
16:09:02 <kaz> paul: LC/CR should be later
16:09:44 <kaz> kaz: maybe Q2 2016
16:10:02 <kaz> paul: so PR and REC for Q4 2016
16:10:24 <kaz> ... we'll work for the testing and implementation as well next year
16:10:45 <kaz> present+ Peter_Winzell
16:11:12 <kaz> ... Genivi is doing one
16:12:18 <kaz> @@@: started to see how to implement on Google Chrome
16:12:39 <kaz> s/@@@/peter/
16:12:55 <kaz> ... and outlook how to test it
16:13:22 <kaz> ... collaboration with Genivi would be good
16:13:28 <kaz> paul: right
16:13:59 <kaz> ... willing to take an action to see what would happen in US and Genivi
16:14:22 <kaz> ... we can get some small loop to work together
16:14:45 <kaz> ... making proposal and align things
16:15:15 <kaz> peter: started with Chromium
16:15:21 <kaz> ... how to add interfaces
16:15:38 <kaz> ... you can use the browser itself
16:16:00 <kaz> ... I don't know if that is the best choice, though
16:16:21 <kaz> paul: anybody who work with Chromium could use that, so that's good
16:16:50 <kaz> ... for typical cars
16:16:59 <kaz> peter: think so
16:17:34 <kaz> ... but don't think you can do that on your PCs
16:17:57 <kaz> ... could do if you have some recorder
16:18:15 <kaz> paul: Kevin and Adam?
16:18:31 <kaz> kevin: not typically CAN logs
16:18:35 <kaz> ... but we could do
16:18:42 <kaz> q+
16:19:08 <kaz> @@@: we've been testing head units
16:19:30 <kaz> s/@@@/peter/
16:19:53 <kaz> dave: think ACCESS has something
16:20:10 <kaz> paul: we can record data and use some simulator
16:20:37 <kaz> ... JLR has some mechanism
16:21:24 <kaz> ... let me sense
16:21:50 <kaz> ... have to see definition
16:22:04 <kaz> ... any comments from Urata-san?
16:22:05 <kaz> q?
16:22:18 <kaz> urata: using some property from dongle
16:22:31 <kaz> ... getting CAN data from the dongle device
16:22:43 <kaz> s/from/via/
16:22:53 <kaz> ... translate CAN data to JSON
16:23:11 <kaz> ... could be a reference model
16:23:30 <kaz> paul: Dave, do you have any experience?
16:23:50 <kaz> dave: open xd has some project
16:24:01 <kaz> ... hardware is open
16:24:10 <kaz> ... proprietary binary format
16:24:41 <kaz> ... convert the output data to JSON
16:25:05 <kaz> paul: also interested in what Google is doing
16:25:18 <kaz> ... how we can get/record data?
16:25:35 <kaz> ... e.g., using chrome
16:26:04 <kaz> ... various possibilities
16:26:32 <kaz> dave: would take an action to see what would be available
16:26:51 <kaz> ... not sure what the actual state
16:26:59 <kaz> paul: most people should consider
16:27:10 <kaz> dave: try to contact Genivi
16:27:20 <kaz> paul: e.g., Gunnar?
16:27:22 <kaz> dave: yes
16:27:33 <kaz> ... will ask him
16:28:10 <kaz> ... the best is something open
16:29:04 <kaz> s/dave:/peter:/
16:29:06 <kaz> s/dave:/peter:/
16:29:08 <kaz> s/dave:/peter:/
16:29:32 <kaz> dave: would see OpenXC
16:29:39 <kaz> paul: anything from JLR?
16:30:17 <kaz> kevin: CAN data database
16:30:36 <kaz> paul: Kevron or somebody from Poland
16:30:54 <kaz> ... non-production implementation
16:31:22 <kaz> ... Peter, you sent an email regarding what the test plan would be
16:31:58 <kaz> peter: part of the implementation I'm doing
16:32:22 <kaz> paul: would people be interested in TF work?
16:32:24 <kaz> q?
16:32:28 <kaz> q-
16:32:52 <kaz> peter: working on that everyday
16:33:05 <kaz> paul: is anybody else interested?
16:33:19 <kaz> peter: interested in how ACCESS thinking about testing
16:33:24 <kaz> q+
16:33:55 <kaz> dave: interested in how the other groups working on testing
16:34:39 <kaz> kaz: usually groups form a TF for testing
16:34:53 <kaz> ... and people work collaboratively for that purpose
16:35:05 <kaz> paul: yes, that' my suggestion
16:35:31 <kaz> ... urata-san, are you willing to join it?
16:35:50 <kaz> urata: interested but have time restriction...
16:36:06 <kaz> ... can contribute very little...
16:36:31 <kaz> paul: would send out a message to ask people for participation
16:36:37 <kaz> ... we can coordinate
16:37:10 <kaz> ... understanding implementation, etc.
16:37:15 <kaz> dave: interested
16:37:32 <kaz> paul: will send an email then
16:37:50 <kaz> ... peter, you can arrange the agenda
16:37:50 <kaz> peter: ok
16:38:10 <kaz> kevin: interested and possibly make contribution
16:39:19 <kaz> kaz: we'll discuss not only implementation experience but also testing mechanism?
16:39:25 <kaz> paul: yeah
16:40:08 <kaz> kaz: we need to generate test assertions and test suite
16:40:16 <kaz> ... also would be nicer to have testing environment
16:40:50 <kaz> dave: automated tools would be helpful and worth consideration
16:41:06 <kaz> q-
16:41:11 <kaz> topic: Security update
16:41:57 <kaz> junichi: access control
16:42:04 <kaz> ... for auto makers and implementers
16:42:19 <kaz> ... have been looking Web security specs
16:42:28 <kaz> ... manifest is permission list
16:42:47 <kaz> ... focused on icons
16:43:01 <kaz> ... another one is application mechanism
16:43:12 <kaz> ... controlled by implementers
16:43:26 <kaz> ... difficult to use for access control by auto makers
16:43:50 <kaz> ... we should consider approval of developers
16:43:59 <kaz> ... approving specific URL domains
16:44:13 <kaz> ... thinking of some root certificate
16:44:33 <kaz> ... vehicle APIs only approved domains
16:44:50 <kaz> ... would finish by the end of this month
16:44:58 <kaz> ... do you like the idea?
16:45:01 <kaz> paul: yeah
16:45:13 <kaz> junichi: feasibility, urata-san?
16:45:28 <kaz> urata: with the restricted domain list?
16:46:05 <kaz> junichi: usually all APIs are openly used by any domains
16:46:28 <kaz> urata: W3C widgets spec is kind of old
16:46:38 <kaz> ... but handles manifest and packaged apps
16:46:49 <kaz> ... maybe similar to your idea
16:47:10 <kaz> junichi: currently we don't have a packaged format
16:47:25 <kaz> urata: Firefox can use packaged formats
16:48:00 <kaz> ... from app security perspective, that kind of packaged apps would be effective
16:48:10 <kaz> ... maybe one candidate
16:48:34 <kaz> ... would listen to other approaches as well
16:48:51 <kaz> kevin: token?
16:49:06 <kaz> ... basically have an authentication service
16:49:15 <kaz> ... to authenticate and verify the app
16:49:20 <kaz> ... e.g., using password
16:49:28 <kaz> ... facial recognition
16:50:59 <kaz> ... optionally authenticate the vehicle or infrastructure, local government, highway agency, etc.
16:51:42 <kaz> ... assistance to get vehicle location, etc.
16:51:59 <kaz> ... authentication token attached to the HTTP header
16:52:13 <kaz> ... authorizing the access to the data
16:52:27 <kaz> junichi: do we need to introduce a new HTTP header?
16:53:12 <kaz> kevin: two tokens on a request
16:53:33 <kaz> ... one token representing the user and another representing the vehicle or something
16:53:41 <kaz> ... separate tokens are possible
16:54:12 <kaz> junichi: several approaches we discussed during TPAC f2f
16:54:17 <kaz> ... token was one of them
16:54:25 <kaz> ... another was having a proxy
16:54:41 <kaz> kevin: like having a secure proxy
16:55:07 <kaz> junichi: introducing a big mechanism would cost much for implementers
16:55:17 <kaz> ... so would start with light-weight approach
16:55:57 <kaz> kevin: in terms of modification of spec, there would be minimum changes
16:56:04 <kaz> ... not mandatory
16:56:36 <kaz> kevin: happy to write an idea to access tokens
16:57:01 <kaz> ... not clear how to handle that within the spec, though
16:57:16 <kaz> paul: we could add that as informative notes
16:58:05 <kaz> ... basically we could add that to some informative section
16:58:54 <kaz> kevin: can write some wording
17:00:07 <kaz> ... for an informative section
17:00:13 <kaz> kaz: yes, we can do so
17:00:33 <kaz> paul: makes sense
17:00:50 <kaz> ... Kevin will generate some description
17:01:08 <kaz> ... Hashimoto-san, are you interested in adding something?
17:01:11 <kaz> junichi: yes
17:01:44 <kaz> paul: Peter will work on implementation/testing TF
17:02:00 <kaz> ... myself will work with Adam and Dave for Genivi
17:02:16 <kaz> dave: still not much discussion on event handling
17:02:28 <kaz> ... would be great to have input from Urata-san, etc.
17:02:42 <Yingying> s/dave:/AdamC
17:03:03 <Yingying> s/AdamC/AdamC:
17:04:05 <kaz> adamC: vehicle enum should be changed
17:07:55 <kaz> paul: Adam, you might want to summarize the discussion
17:08:16 <kaz> kaz: should we ask TAG for some more help?
17:08:36 <kaz> paul: Tobie made some suggestion during TPAC
17:08:52 <kaz> kaz: yeah, Generic Sensor style is one possibility
17:09:09 <kaz> paul: can send a message to TAG
17:09:27 <kaz> ... anything else?
17:09:29 <kaz> (nothing)
17:10:14 <kaz> paul: will have the next call next week.
17:11:00 <kaz> [ adjourned ]
17:11:05 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
17:11:10 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:11:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/24-auto-minutes.html kaz
17:11:38 <kaz> Meeting: Automotive WG
17:11:41 <kaz> Chair: Paul
17:11:43 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:11:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/24-auto-minutes.html kaz
17:12:23 <kaz> i/we should update the/topic: Publication schedule/
17:12:56 <kaz> i/we'll work for/topic: Implementations and Testing/
17:13:16 <kaz> s/implement on Google Chrome/implement on Chromium/
17:13:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:13:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/24-auto-minutes.html kaz
17:14:53 <kaz> i/Peter will work on/topic: Wrap-up/
17:14:56 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:14:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/24-auto-minutes.html kaz
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