14:01:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dwbp
14:01:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/13-dwbp-irc
14:01:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
14:01:45 <yaso> Topic for #dwbp is: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20151113
14:01:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
14:01:47 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:01:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:01:48 <trackbot> Date: 13 November 2015
14:01:55 <hadleybeeman> PhilA, webex doesn't seem to have the time zones right
14:01:58 <phila> zakim, code?
14:01:58 <Zakim> I have been told this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m0642b1c7ce49018a07ffec17ea136ae6 or +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number, Access code: 645 096 989 PW: xGbzp445 Host Key
14:02:01 <Zakim> ... 538630
14:02:10 <hadleybeeman> We had this problem with the TAG call too (PhilA)
14:02:13 <phila> phila has changed the topic to: Please look at the wiki for the NEW DIAL IN DETAILS
14:02:21 <phila> phila has changed the topic to: Please look at the wiki for the NEW DIAL IN DETAILS
14:02:37 <phila> It's not that, hadleybeeman, it's that our meeeting booking was cacnelled
14:02:42 <phila> we have had trolls
14:02:44 <hadleybeeman> Ouch!
14:02:47 <hadleybeeman> Okay. :(
14:04:39 <ericstephan> ericstephan has joined #dwbp
14:04:53 <ericstephan> present+ ericstephan
14:05:00 <Eric_Kauz> Eric_Kauz has joined #DWBP
14:05:44 <phila> phila has joined #dwbp
14:06:01 <newtonca_> newtonca_ has joined #dwbp
14:06:07 <phila> zakim, code?
14:06:07 <Zakim> I have been told this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m0642b1c7ce49018a07ffec17ea136ae6 or +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number, Access code: 645 096 989 PW: xGbzp445 Host Key
14:06:10 <Zakim> ... 538630
14:06:16 <yaso> present+ yaso
14:06:24 <newtonca_> present+ newtoncalegari
14:06:28 <Eric_Kauz> present+ Eric_Kauz
14:06:33 <riccardoAlbertoni> present+ riccardoAlbertoni
14:06:36 <phila> zakim, save this conference description
14:06:36 <Zakim> this conference description has been saved, phila
14:06:45 <phila> zakim, code?
14:06:45 <Zakim> I have been told this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m0642b1c7ce49018a07ffec17ea136ae6 or +1-617-324-0000 US Toll Number, Access code: 645 096 989 PW: xGbzp445 Host Key
14:06:48 <Zakim> ... 538630
14:06:54 <newton> present+ newton
14:07:38 <hadleybeeman> present+ hadley
14:07:39 <hadleybeeman> zakim, who is here?
14:07:39 <Zakim> Present: ericstephan, yaso, newtoncalegari, Eric_Kauz, riccardoAlbertoni, hadley
14:07:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see newton, phila, Eric_Kauz, ericstephan, RRSAgent, Zakim, riccardoAlbertoni, newtoncalegari, yaso, PWinstanley, Ig_Bittencourt, hadleybeeman, rhiaro, trackbot
14:07:42 <phila> present+ phila
14:07:54 <phila> IF YOU ARE NOT ON WEBEX YET, PLEASE NOTE NEW DETAILS
14:08:03 <phila> IT'S NOT THE SAME AS LAST WEEK
14:08:04 <PWinstanley_> PWinstanley_ has joined #dwbp
14:08:25 <yaso> scribe?
14:08:47 <laufer> laufer has joined #dwbp
14:08:52 <yaso> Hi Laufer
14:09:00 <PWinstanley_> present+ PWinstanley
14:09:07 <laufer> hi Yaso
14:09:18 <laufer> present+ laufer
14:09:22 <yaso> scribe: hadleybeeman
14:09:30 <BernadetteLoscio> BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp
14:09:36 <yaso> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-11-06
14:09:39 <hadleybeeman> chair: yaso
14:09:54 <hadleybeeman> PROPOSED: approve last week's minutes?
14:09:58 <yaso> +1
14:10:01 <hadleybeeman> +1
14:10:02 <riccardoAlbertoni> +0 ( i was not present)
14:10:03 <ericstephan> +1
14:10:10 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
14:10:29 <phila> PROPSOED: Accept lasty week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/11/06-dwbp-minutes
14:10:33 <laufer> +1
14:10:36 <phila> s/lasty/last/
14:10:37 <yaso> +1
14:11:03 <riccardoAlbertoni> +0 ( i was not present)
14:11:13 <phila> RESOLUTION: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/11/06-dwbp-minutes
14:11:17 <jerdeb> jerdeb has joined #DWBP
14:11:17 <yaso> s/PROPSOED/PROPOSED
14:11:19 <newton> +1
14:11:27 <BernadetteLoscio> +1
14:11:36 <yaso> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20151113
14:11:44 <jerdeb> present+ jerdeb
14:11:55 <hadleybeeman> Topic: Updates from BP document
14:12:06 <hadleybeeman> yaso: Bernadette or Newton?
14:12:11 <BernadetteLoscio> present +BernadetteLoscio
14:12:12 <newton> Berna
14:12:28 <BernadetteLoscio> present+ BernadetteLoscio
14:12:35 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:12:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila
14:12:39 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: We are still working on the updates of the document
14:12:47 <hadleybeeman> ...We are working on the examples. And reviewing some Bps.
14:13:08 <hadleybeeman> ...I was reviewing the BP on data vocabularies, and opened some issues and are discussing them with Antoine
14:13:19 <hadleybeeman> ...I hope we can get consensus and some examples for the end of next week.
14:13:51 <hadleybeeman> ...For the Data Access section: Newton and I were discussing examples for this
14:13:55 <newton> The ISSUE-213
14:13:55 <PWinstanley_> hadleybeeman: is it your typing that's coming over the lines?  can you mute pls
14:14:00 <hadleybeeman> ...And also the BP about use of REST for APIs. Newton just opened an issue about it
14:14:28 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:14:32 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:14:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila
14:14:36 <hadleybeeman> ...I also sent a message about the use of a specific vocab (the DTFS) to use in examples on transport data.
14:14:48 <phila> s/DTFS/GTFS/
14:14:54 <hadleybeeman> ...I got some answers, and am considering using this. Does the group agree?
14:15:06 <hadleybeeman> ...Or are there other suggestions? Mark sent some.
14:15:13 <hadleybeeman> ...GTFS is easy to work with.
14:15:22 <phila> +1 to using GTFS in examples
14:15:22 <hadleybeeman> ...This is just an example, not to say you SHOULD use this vocabulary
14:15:34 <hadleybeeman> ...Phil, have you talked with Christophe re the Data Preservation section?
14:15:56 <yaso> +1 to GTFS at examples
14:15:58 <hadleybeeman> phila: Re GTFS: as an example, that's fine.  (The G used to stand for "Google"; now it's "General".) Almost everyone uses it.
14:16:06 <hadleybeeman> ...Stations, bus stops, timetables, etc.
14:16:21 <hadleybeeman> ...As long as it's just in the examples and we aren't saying "you must use this"; that's fine.
14:16:34 <hadleybeeman> ...I did contact Christophe, who responded with a pull request with examples.
14:16:44 <hadleybeeman> ...I haven't yet asked him to look at the running example.
14:17:00 <hadleybeeman> ...I haven't seen what he's written yet (in that PR), but if the example doesn't fit that, I'll see if I can edit it.
14:17:09 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: Okay, I'll look at his PR.
14:17:17 <hadleybeeman> ...and I'll reply on email.
14:17:19 <hadleybeeman> q?
14:17:21 <newton> q+
14:17:47 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: So we are working on the doc, reviewing the BPs. There is still stuff to do. This week I'll send emails asking for feedback about specific stuff.
14:17:53 <hadleybeeman> ... From the whole group.
14:17:57 <phila> q+ to ask about next publication date
14:18:11 <hadleybeeman> ...Soon we need to prepare the doc to publish the next draft, so it's good to get feedback now.
14:18:13 <hadleybeeman> q?
14:18:32 <yaso> ack newton
14:18:35 <hadleybeeman> ack newton
14:18:52 <newton> Title: Use Content Negotiation when providing the same resource with different formats
14:18:54 <hadleybeeman> newton: Re Conneg: I wrote a draft on this and have discussed with Bernadette
14:19:06 <hadleybeeman> ...I've changed the title
14:19:13 <yaso> link, newton
14:19:14 <yaso> ?
14:19:21 <hadleybeeman> ...With this title, this BP could be basian or not
14:19:38 <hadleybeeman> ...I don't have a link yet, but I will put the text on my GitHub and send to the group
14:19:40 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley has joined #dwbp
14:19:48 <hadleybeeman> ...It's better to discuss it later, with more content.
14:19:50 <PWinstanley> present+ PWinstanley
14:19:55 <newton> ISSUE-213
14:19:55 <trackbot> ISSUE-213 -- Changes on BP about REST APIs -- raised
14:19:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/213
14:20:00 <hadleybeeman> yaso: And the BP for REST APIs?
14:20:40 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: As Newton said on the issue, it's more because the idea of us saying you should use REST APIs as an approach to implementation — instead of saying this on the  title of the BP
14:20:51 <Makx> Makx has joined #dwbp
14:20:54 <hadleybeeman> ...So the title could be more generic, like "use APIs", and then on the approach implementation section
14:21:02 <hadleybeeman> ...you could say that one option would be to use RESTful APIs
14:21:16 <hadleybeeman> ...I don't think it's in the scope of the group to say how to implement a RESTful API
14:21:18 <phila> Not sure I agree with that but I'll need to look at it more carefully, i.e. I have an idea we should be firmer in recommending REST
14:21:31 <hadleybeeman> ...If you're going to use an API, you should use a RESTful API, but say this is an example.
14:21:36 <hadleybeeman> +1 to phil from me
14:21:46 <hadleybeeman> yaso: I agree with Phil. Maybe we should talk more?
14:21:54 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: We just started the discussion.
14:22:14 <hadleybeeman> yaso: I agree that we don't need to mention the REST word. But I don't know if we don't have to mention the methods related to hypermedia and stuffy
14:22:23 <hadleybeeman> ...Maybe we should carry on the discussion on email?
14:22:34 <hadleybeeman> ...Newton or Bernadette, could you send this around?
14:22:39 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: It's on the issue (213)
14:22:49 <BernadetteLoscio> thanks Hadley!
14:22:53 <hadleybeeman> newton: We could recommend some links on it
14:23:03 <Caroline> Caroline has joined #DWBP
14:23:05 <hadleybeeman> ...But I'm not sure we should get more specific
14:23:05 <yaso> q?
14:23:06 <hadleybeeman> q?
14:23:10 <hadleybeeman> ack phil
14:23:10 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to ask about next publication date
14:23:12 <yaso> ack phila
14:23:27 <hadleybeeman> phila: Newton, BernadetteLoscio, when do you think we can have a new publication? (ideally before Christmas)
14:23:30 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: Yes
14:23:35 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has joined #dwbp
14:23:36 <hadleybeeman> phila: End of this month?
14:23:38 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: Yes
14:23:45 <hadleybeeman> Phila: put the open issues in the document, like this one.
14:23:54 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: We are working on it.
14:24:16 <hadleybeeman> phila: I'm trying to encourage you to publish something even though there is more work to do. We need another snapshot out to get feedback.
14:24:27 <hadleybeeman> ...We are headed toward Candidate Rec stage in 2 months time.
14:24:28 <yaso>  Data Usage Vocabulary
14:24:29 <hadleybeeman> BernadetteLoscio: Okay
14:24:36 <hadleybeeman> topic: updates on data usage vocabulary
14:24:41 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ BartvanLeeuwen
14:25:02 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/images/c/ce/Duv-citations-research.pdf
14:25:02 <hadleybeeman> ericstephan: I put this link on the agenda Update on Dataset Usage https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/images/c/ce/Duv-citations-research.pdf
14:25:12 <Caroline> Present+ Caroline
14:25:13 <hadleybeeman> ...Sorry, it's a slow download
14:25:46 <hadleybeeman> ...I'll wait just a couple minutes while it's downloading (for all of you)  — and talk about the Data usage part of the vocabulary
14:25:56 <hadleybeeman> ...BernadetteLoscio and I have resolved this AM we need the working group's input
14:26:11 <yaso> q?
14:26:11 <hadleybeeman> ...To do that, we have to put issues into the document so you can see where we're struggling.
14:26:15 <hadleybeeman> ...And give us your ideas.
14:26:37 <hadleybeeman> ...There is another part where external folks are working in the climate community (NASA and universities) have a tool called Tool Match, which seems up our alley
14:26:52 <hadleybeeman> ...While it's focused on geospatial, it may give us some ideas on how to direct our efforts on the DUV
14:26:54 <yaso> q?
14:27:29 <hadleybeeman> ...Next part is the presentation.  Last 2 weeks, I appreciate everyone bearing with me on Data citations.
14:27:38 <hadleybeeman> ...It's a challenging problem, how to get the citations model right.
14:28:00 <hadleybeeman> ...I was grappling with the issue that there are a lot of different solutions, challenges, ontologies, vocabularies...
14:28:08 <hadleybeeman> ...Most people think about the Info model. [slide 1]
14:28:21 <hadleybeeman> ...I'm highlighting the MLA, APA and Chicago Manual styles, the three main ones.
14:28:43 <hadleybeeman> ...I've been using the Purdue Online Writing Lab as a resource (logo on slide), because I didn't just want to study about mental models for any type of citation—
14:28:51 <hadleybeeman> ...We care about citations for data on the Web.
14:28:54 <hadleybeeman> ...[Slide 2]
14:29:08 <hadleybeeman> ...Re constructing knowledge models... [Minecraft slide]
14:29:24 <hadleybeeman> ...You have lots of tools with different emphases. I've been looking for the best solution for us.
14:29:29 <hadleybeeman> ...[Slide 3]
14:29:44 <hadleybeeman> ...Is there some level of synchronisation possible, to go from the information model to the knowledge model?
14:30:03 <hadleybeeman> ...You've got a consumer who cites, on the Web, a dataset from a journal article.
14:30:20 <hadleybeeman> ...We have to have a link to that, or we'll only be building knowledge models and not reaching out to the greater community
14:30:40 <hadleybeeman> ...We've got a publisher who creates a metadata citation for data on the Web, or
14:30:42 <yaso> q?
14:30:53 <hadleybeeman> ...citing a technical document associated with the data.
14:30:56 <hadleybeeman> ...[next slide]
14:31:12 <hadleybeeman> ...Re digital libraries... I've found there is a core electronic document data model.
14:31:20 <hadleybeeman> ...There are different styles that extend that model
14:31:31 <hadleybeeman> ...Around that, you have the vocabularies. SPAR ontologies, Dublin Core, etc.
14:31:50 <hadleybeeman> ...Beyond the vocabularies, you have the Force11 community, and the other non-semweb vocabs
14:32:00 <hadleybeeman> ...You have StructureID. Bib-JSON
14:32:21 <hadleybeeman> ...Because we're looking at open data on the Web and not just semantic data, that's useful.
14:32:42 <hadleybeeman> ...I know we're focusing on URIs as identifiers, but there are legacy datasets that use other identifiers.
14:32:50 <hadleybeeman> ...If they have those, we have to bring those along too.
14:33:10 <hadleybeeman> ...Outside that, whatever we put together for a data model, we include principles from Force11 and BPs...
14:33:21 <hadleybeeman> ...And then there is Interrelated content, which is what you do with the citation
14:33:26 <hadleybeeman> ...And there are ontologies for that.
14:33:42 <hadleybeeman> ...It helped me separate in my mind everything out there, and the correlation between the info and the knowledge models.
14:33:46 <hadleybeeman> ...[Next slide]
14:33:56 <hadleybeeman> ...From the digital librarians...
14:34:00 <hadleybeeman> ...This is the core citation model
14:34:11 <hadleybeeman> ...Only thing we added: the Citation creator
14:34:31 <hadleybeeman> ...There were a few that jumped out at me. Sometimes the publisher, creator and distributor might be broken out
14:34:34 <hadleybeeman> ...[next slide]
14:35:08 <hadleybeeman> ...Based on the previous slide with the basic elements, we have right now in the model DUV-CitationAct, we recommend it includes the properties that support the attributes here.
14:35:16 <hadleybeeman> ...This is up for discussion... did we pick the best properties?
14:35:46 <hadleybeeman> ...Also, if something is published on the Web, sometimes you have authors who are a foaf:agent, sometimes foaf:organisation, sometimes foaf:project
14:35:57 <yaso> q?
14:36:07 <hadleybeeman> ...The role of the distributor, whoever makes the data accessible on the web... we're talking about the relationship between that and the dataset.
14:36:17 <hadleybeeman> ...We're proposing we go with the basic citation model.
14:36:36 <hadleybeeman> ...Then: we're aligned with the digital librarian community. Got feedback from Purdue.
14:36:47 <hadleybeeman> ...Through this, I've learned which communities we need to get to validate this.
14:36:56 <yaso> q?
14:37:05 <hadleybeeman> yaso: Thank you for the update. Comments?
14:37:11 <hadleybeeman> phila: I do, but I know we don't have much time
14:37:28 <hadleybeeman> ...Grateful to Eric for that huge amount of work. I need to sit  down and send questions on email.
14:37:32 <yaso> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dqv/
14:37:33 <hadleybeeman> topic: Data Quality Vocabulary
14:37:53 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: First a little discussion on the update in the document.
14:38:08 <hadleybeeman> ...This week, Antoine changed the data document, updating it according to the decision we made in the last call.
14:38:28 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-dqg.html DQV
14:38:39 <hadleybeeman> ...I think that the most important thing is that we now have an example to show how to associate all the high-quality certifications for a dataset.
14:38:42 <riccardoAlbertoni> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-dqg.html#express-that-a-dataset-received-an-odi-certificate
14:38:54 <hadleybeeman> ...This is an example. http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-dqg.html#express-that-a-dataset-received-an-odi-certificate
14:39:23 <hadleybeeman> ... Beside small changes on the document, we have 2 discussions pending.
14:39:30 <hadleybeeman> ...We are waiting for people behind the scenes.
14:39:40 <hadleybeeman> ...1) How to encode SLA in a quality policy?
14:39:55 <hadleybeeman> ...Yesterday, Nandana sent examples to the editors. We are considering them and hope to add them to the doc soon.
14:40:23 <hadleybeeman> ...2) Re metrics dimensions categories, is this a concrete class or abstract class?
14:40:39 <hadleybeeman> ...I want to apologise. @@@ contacted us editors last week, and we haven't had time yet to answer.
14:41:01 <hadleybeeman> ...I'd like to move on to concrete discussion about issues now, unless there are questions?
14:41:05 <yaso> q?
14:41:29 <phila> s/@@@/Jeremy/
14:41:32 <hadleybeeman> [no questions]
14:41:35 <riccardoAlbertoni> issue-202
14:41:35 <trackbot> issue-202 -- Relation between dqv, iso 19115/19157 and geodcat-ap -- open
14:41:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/202
14:41:39 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: Let's start with issue 202
14:41:56 <hadleybeeman> ...Which was generated by Andrea Perrego.
14:42:19 <hadleybeeman> ...Issue: relationship between the vocab, an ISO standard, the INSPIRE directive and a profile of DCAT
14:42:35 <hadleybeeman> ...Perrego suggested some possible requirements to consider.
14:42:56 <hadleybeeman> ...In the DQV, we are already saying that a dataset conforms to a standard, we have a specific property in the class for doing that.
14:43:24 <hadleybeeman> ...Andrea is asking if we would like to consider also to express that a dataset is not conformant to a standard. Or that it hasn't yet been evaluated against a standard.
14:43:32 <hadleybeeman> ...Yesterday I emailed about this
14:43:44 <phila> q+
14:43:55 <hadleybeeman> ...My position: we should consider to add the support in DQV to express that a dataset is not conformant to a standard.
14:44:08 <hadleybeeman> ...But I'm not sure if it makes sense to say that it has not yet been evaluated against a standard.
14:44:14 <hadleybeeman> ...So, any comments?
14:44:18 <yaso> q?
14:44:22 <hadleybeeman> ack phila
14:44:23 <yaso> ack phila
14:44:52 <hadleybeeman> phila: The thing about DCAT-AP and GeoDCAT-AP is that they are in increasing use, the European Data Portal is being launched next week which demands DCAT-AP
14:45:01 <hadleybeeman> ...I get hung up on "what is the subject of the triples."
14:45:26 <hadleybeeman> ...If I have a dataset of bus stops, the dataset doesn't conform to GeoDCAT-AP, but the metadata about the data may conform.
14:45:38 <peter> peter has joined #dwbp
14:45:45 <peter> present+ peter
14:45:52 <hadleybeeman> ...You'll need a property that says, "This dataset has metadata that is conformant to this standard [like GeoDCAT-AP]
14:45:55 <hadleybeeman> ..."
14:45:56 <phila> <dataset> ex:hasMetadataConformantTo <DCAT-AP>
14:46:11 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: That is a good suggestion
14:46:30 <hadleybeeman> ...It's hard to say if this is in the scope for DQV. It could be.
14:47:08 <hadleybeeman> ...We are trying to model the quality of datasets. The fact that the dataset is compliant to DCAT-AP, which is basically a vocabulary... so it is not a standard?
14:47:20 <hadleybeeman> phila: The European Commission wouldn't agree that it isn't a standard.
14:47:30 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: I guess there are plenty of standards.
14:47:40 <hadleybeeman> ...I wonder if this kind of statement should be captured by our vocabulary or not.
14:47:44 <laufer> q+
14:47:54 <hadleybeeman> phila: I think it tells you something about the process, how the data was created.
14:48:12 <hadleybeeman> ...It tells you the organisation that created this data has taken the trouble to create metadata according to this standard.
14:48:14 <hadleybeeman> q+
14:48:18 <peter> there is an RDA - related metadata to metadata link issue:  http://www.rda-jsc.org/sites/all/files/6JSC-ALA-45-CCC-response.pdf
14:48:36 <hadleybeeman> ...It lets you trust the data further.
14:48:57 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: I get that. I wonder if the property you were suggesting could be a sub-property of dc:conformsTo?
14:49:02 <hadleybeeman> ...Shall we open an issue?
14:49:08 <hadleybeeman> phila: Was hoping to help you close an issue
14:49:26 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: This is a good suggestion, but I think it's not helping to close the issue.
14:49:34 <hadleybeeman> ...I'm happy you pointed this out.
14:49:37 <phila> ack l
14:49:38 <hadleybeeman> ack lauf
14:49:39 <yaso> q?
14:49:52 <yaso> ack hadleybeeman
14:49:57 <yaso> ops
14:50:00 <yaso> ack laufer
14:50:11 <hadleybeeman> laufer: About the issue of seeing or not if the datasets conforms to a standard:
14:50:23 <hadleybeeman> ...I want to ask, what is the model we are assuming for quality? A closed world, or an open world?
14:50:37 <hadleybeeman> ...I think we have to assert that the quality of a dataset is in a closed world.
14:50:43 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: I tend to agree
14:50:49 <jerdeb> it should be closed world
14:50:59 <hadleybeeman> ...In most cases, they are working with a closed world assumption. Depends on the community.
14:51:15 <hadleybeeman> laufer: I think it's difficult to assert all the things that a dataset is not.
14:51:25 <hadleybeeman> hadleybeeman: That's profound
14:51:41 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: You are saying there is difficulties in expressing this statement, but you would find it useful to express it?
14:52:07 <hadleybeeman> laufer: I don't know. I think we have to define what are the assertions about  quality that our vocabulary will enable.
14:52:20 <hadleybeeman> ...So, one can assert that a dataset is conforment to a standard.
14:52:35 <hadleybeeman> ...But it seems a strange thing to assert to what the dataset is not conferment.
14:52:59 <hadleybeeman> ...If you don't assert that it IS conformant, then we can conclude that it isn't conforment.
14:53:07 <yaso> q+
14:53:25 <yaso> q-
14:53:27 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: The point is that Andrea is point out that these kinds of needs are required in some domains, like geographical domain.
14:53:28 <hadleybeeman> q+
14:53:37 <hadleybeeman> ...Where there is a huge amount of open data.
14:54:09 <hadleybeeman> ...I think we should take into consideration the possibility that saying that one dataset is not conformant to a standard. But I don't think "not evaluated yet" is useful
14:54:33 <hadleybeeman> ...And may make the management of metadata more difficult
14:54:49 <hadleybeeman> laufer: If you don't have any assertion about a standard, we can conclude...nothing?
14:54:53 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: Yes, nothing.
14:55:12 <hadleybeeman> ...Because some people will work in an open-world assumption.  Others in the closed-world assumption. We can't presume.
14:55:29 <hadleybeeman> ...I'm not sure; this is an open discussion
14:55:33 <yaso> ack hadleybeeman
14:55:50 <phila> hadleybeeman: I wanted to scroll back to talking about the metadata being conformant to a standard
14:56:07 <phila> ... If I'm combining datasets, that's what I want to know. That then makes it easy to know what I can do with it
14:56:15 <yaso> +1 to hadleybeeman
14:56:21 <phila> ... So +1 for that being a user need
14:56:40 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: Okay, I appreciate that. I think we really need to open an issue here.
14:56:57 <hadleybeeman> ...Phil's suggestion could be a good starting point.
14:57:10 <hadleybeeman> ...I could have an open action to me to include this new relation?
14:57:20 <phila> [..] Riccardo thinks
14:57:52 <trackbot> Sorry, phila, I don't understand 'Trackbot, please decide whether we should open an issue or an action'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
14:58:17 <phila> q+ for 10 secs at the end
14:58:37 <hadleybeeman> action: Riccardo to send an email to discuss the suggestion to add the assertion that a dataset's metadata conforms to a standard (like GeoJSON)
14:58:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-219 - Send an email to discuss the suggestion to add the assertion that a dataset's metadata conforms to a standard (like geojson) [on Riccardo Albertoni - due 2015-11-20].
14:58:44 <riccardoAlbertoni> issue-188
14:58:44 <trackbot> issue-188 -- Section "Express the quality of a linkset" will be completed by examples coming from Riccardo's work on measuring the quality of linksets between SKOS concept schemes -- open
14:58:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/188
14:59:14 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: We have already added an example in the doc pertaining to linkset quality.
14:59:19 <hadleybeeman> ...I want to close this issue
14:59:32 <hadleybeeman> ...As it is written, it is misleading and doesn't make sense. And doesn't require more discussion.
14:59:45 <yaso> q?
14:59:49 <phila> If it's dealt with it's dealt with IMHO
14:59:52 <hadleybeeman> ...I will add the missing part, as editorial note. Reminder that we have to add an example.
15:00:10 <hadleybeeman> yaso: Is everyone okay with closing this issue?
15:00:33 <hadleybeeman> yaso: I don't think we need a group decision to close this.
15:00:40 <hadleybeeman> riccardoAlbertoni: Yes. No group discussion is needed.
15:00:48 <hadleybeeman> yaso: Thank you, riccardoAlbertoni for this update.
15:00:48 <yaso> ack phila
15:00:48 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to discuss 10 secs at the end
15:00:49 <phila> -> http://fantasai.inkedblade.net/style/design/w3c-restyle/2016/sample What our final docs will look like (as of Jan 2016)
15:00:57 <hadleybeeman> topic: Any other business
15:00:57 <yaso> close issue-188
15:00:57 <trackbot> Closed issue-188.
15:01:10 <hadleybeeman> phila: You may have seen that we've been redesigning our document template.
15:01:18 <hadleybeeman> ...This is a link to the new template, which comes in to force in Jan.
15:01:27 <peter_> peter_ has joined #dwbp
15:01:29 <hadleybeeman> ...The final version of this group's docs will look like this.
15:01:34 <peter_> present+ peter
15:01:41 <hadleybeeman> ...Looking for comments on this new TR design?
15:02:11 <riccardoAlbertoni> thank for the suggestions!
15:02:28 <ericstephan> Okay bye everyone
15:02:31 <laufer> bye all, nice wknd...
15:02:31 <hadleybeeman> Yaso: [closes the meeting]
15:02:32 <phila> RRSAgent, dtraft minutes
15:02:32 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'dtraft minutes', phila.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:02:32 <Caroline> great design! :)
15:02:35 <Caroline> Bye! tks
15:02:36 <peter_> bye
15:02:38 <hadleybeeman> bye
15:02:39 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/13-dwbp-minutes.html phila
15:02:40 <BernadetteLoscio> bye! thanks!!!
15:02:50 <yaso> Bye! Thanks all
15:03:02 <newton> bye!
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