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18:02:17 <clapierre> rrsagent, make logs public
18:02:31 <clapierre> scribe: clapierre
18:02:41 <clapierre> scribenic: clapierre
18:03:32 <tzviya> topic: dpub-a11y
18:03:58 <tzviya> present+ TzviyaSiegman
18:04:04 <clapierre> present+ Charles_LaPierre
18:04:16 <tzviya> present+ MiaLipner
18:04:29 <tzviya> present+ DeborahKaplan
18:06:47 <clapierre> charles: gave recap of experiences in japan
18:07:15 <clapierre> Tzviya: next year ;you will all have to come.. it was amazing.
18:07:22 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/blog/dpub/
18:11:15 <clapierre> deborah: a brief discussion on email conversation extended description...
18:11:21 <clapierre> charles that is #2
18:11:55 <clapierre> tzviya: daniel Weck is fighting the good fight on that and is our best friend now.
18:13:08 <clapierre> tzviya: Rich thought summary details would work
18:13:49 <clapierre> tzviya: everyone thinks summary/details should work but we need to flesh out the details and how we can link out a description
18:14:24 <clapierre> deborah: John F. is saying we don't care if its longdesc/describedat but we need something in HTML which describes this thing.
18:15:07 <clapierre> … I do think its worth continuing in that discussion, we need something in HTML that says this is an extended description
18:15:54 <clapierre> tzviya, next steps should be to reduce the list of options and present them to the rest of the group. but looks like this is being derailed in recent emails.
18:16:38 <clapierre> mia, details/summary is worth considering but not the final solution yet.
18:17:40 <clapierre> deborah: we have been making assumptions in describedAt that would have extended descriptions
18:19:09 <clapierre> …, sounds like: we would be happy to say yes we are right describedAt and is not a issue for ARIA, yes you can remove it from the spec which is ok but we still need a solution,
18:19:21 <tzviya> s/ARIA/DPUB
18:20:12 <clapierre> tzviya: well , its an ARIA issue, they will take it out of the spec.
18:21:02 <clapierre> …, this issue of external descriptions if it isn't part of the ARIA spec then who will take this up, but DPUB doesn't care we will use whatever they decide, we just need it.
18:21:47 <clapierre> deborah, ARIA was a fix while HTML is trying to do a better job about it.
18:22:13 <clapierre> mia, remembers looking at html spec and a bunch of things will be pulled in to HTML 5 from ARIA …
18:24:06 <clapierre> ACTION: we will contribute to the email Tzviya will initiate on this topic in the mailing list
18:24:06 <trackbot> Error finding 'we'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
18:24:47 <clapierre> Topic: Review state of DPUB Note
18:25:12 <clapierre> deborah: it has been so long since we looked at it, no one knows where we are at…
18:25:20 <clapierre> Tzviya: agreed
18:25:31 <clapierre> deborah: it was almost done except…
18:26:11 <tzviya> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/
18:26:13 <clapierre> charles: we haven't lost any work.
18:26:41 <clapierre> deborah: we went through what needs to be done, is what we lost
18:27:09 <clapierre> …, minutes were not that great.
18:28:07 <clapierre> …, I was to go through who had to do what but due to waiting too long and lack of minutes was now difficult to figure out.
18:28:41 <clapierre> tzviya: scanning this document shows some of this is dated (ie. DropCap) is being handled in CSS for example.
18:29:38 <clapierre> deborah: there is some work to get this up to date.. but not sure if this will be a duplication of labor.
18:30:07 <clapierre> tzviya: we can recreate this… Page Numbers with being able to access a specific page or is this to read the generated content?
18:30:35 <clapierre> mia: both and be able to get back to the specific page # in hard cover. (I will take this)
18:31:06 <clapierre> tzviya: dave Crammer on CSS side, look at ARIA minutes from the working group
18:31:48 <dkaplan3> s/Crammer/Cramer
18:31:56 <clapierre> http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-aria-minutes.html  
18:32:41 <clapierre> http://www.w3.org/2015/10/28-aria-minutes.html
18:33:20 <clapierre> deborah: we need pagination for get back to print and display in page.
18:34:58 <clapierre> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/
18:36:35 <clapierre> … we don't want to remove DropCap because of the suggestion UAG and outreach, we  know this is a CSS3 but we want to reach out to ATAG, issue is that people weren't using it or supporting it.  Reason why its in this document is to reach out to everyone on how to use it correctly.
18:36:52 <clapierre> … needs polishing.  we are fine
18:37:12 <clapierre> tzviya: browser support then people support to follow.
18:37:28 <clapierre> deborah: Notes, nothing needs to be doing
18:37:47 <clapierre> …, we are documenting things just for completeness.
18:38:05 <clapierre> …, positional location of text by Mia.
18:38:23 <clapierre> …, unclear if all use cases can be done in css.. but more work needed
18:39:30 <clapierre> …, Phonetic spelling 2issues : 1 UA, and WCAG, pronunciation lexicon exists but need to have this added.  Spec needs to exist for phonetic spelling.
18:39:39 <clapierre> tzviya: what would you like to see.
18:40:32 <clapierre> deborah: either create a new spec or add phonetic spelling lexicon support
18:41:17 <clapierre> …, maybe expand HTML to expand to support phonetic pronunciation
18:41:45 <clapierre> …, comment needs to be added: either the existing system needs to be fixed, or something new has to come into existance.
18:42:38 <clapierre> …, specifically the pronunciation lexicon support for external document the chemistry department added a new lexicon that everyone can use for example
18:42:53 <clapierre> layout's influence on comprehension
18:43:15 <clapierre> …, all in the note… looks fine needs wordsmithing etc…
18:43:23 <clapierre> Deeply Nested Heading Levels Best Practices
18:44:20 <clapierre> …, Tzviya this was yours.and should be good
18:44:27 <clapierre> Semantically needed List-Head
18:44:51 <clapierre> …, we need this, but after listening to PF what will they say… "ARIA-Labelledby" is for
18:45:12 <clapierre> …, maybe that is the work?
18:45:23 <clapierre> tzviya: but that won't work for sighted users
18:46:20 <clapierre> mia: if you want some kind of clear associate that is visible, for comprehension but someone uses a tool that linearizes it you may not have a clear distinction.  to this list/part of a list.
18:46:36 <clapierre> Deborah: I will take this one one.
18:47:24 <clapierre> Skippability
18:48:15 <clapierre> …, must also expose this for sighted users… looks pretty good.
18:48:26 <clapierre> Tzviya, this is a pretty big ask.
18:48:40 <clapierre> Assessments
18:48:57 <clapierre> Deborah: need to sit down with Mark Hakkenin
18:49:58 <clapierre> Tzviya: Mark is building a world in Web components but is only supported in one browser.  its addressing great needs, we just don't know how it will work across other browsers.
18:50:21 <clapierre> …, chrome is the only browser which supports WC.
18:51:17 <clapierre> mia, chrome is the least popular in AT space due to major issues. (keyboard support etc..)  there are major security issues as well...
18:51:41 <clapierre> charles: should we take it out?
18:51:50 <clapierre> deborah: we can't take it out.
18:51:55 <clapierre> mia: maybe its own section?
18:52:36 <clapierre> Tzviya: yes but we need Mark to fill this in.  Or we will follow up with work on this.
18:55:29 <clapierre> Deborah: we should for assessments in the document.. it includes a whole lot of things … someone needs to talk to Mark and say that DPUB will follow up with him on our needs and will work together with him on a separate document.  and then we will put a bullet saying that that a note with Mark will follow
18:55:40 <clapierre> Charles: I will take this on with Mark.
18:55:59 <clapierre> Escapability
18:56:27 <clapierre> deborah, there is no concept to get me out of this element to jump out of the table.
18:56:52 <clapierre> mia: this is also an issue for magnification users as well to get out of this. and they are scrolling forever.
18:57:19 <clapierre> deborah: I will take this one one and word smith this to clean up the use cases.
18:57:39 <clapierre> Diagrammar
18:58:49 <clapierre> deborah: does this belong?  need to talk to George.
18:59:39 <clapierre> Tzviya: I will take this up with George.
18:59:43 <clapierre> Annotations
18:59:58 <clapierre> Deborah, there is no action items, there is an annotations WG.
19:00:32 <clapierre> …, are there major things that are missing.
19:00:48 <clapierre> mia: this is a good action item to look for anything missing
19:01:21 <clapierre> tzviya: what are our next steps with the WCAG rechartering etc..
19:01:39 <clapierre> deborah: 2 weeks from now is our last meeting before holidays.
19:02:25 <clapierre> …, get my stuff done in 2 weeks from now or will give everyone a heads up number of days
19:03:05 <clapierre> tzviya: next two weeks are insane so please ping me to remind me of my issues.
19:03:35 <clapierre> Deborah: lets move Diagrammer to the Appendix
19:03:49 <clapierre> …, maybe the issues with Mark H. ect can be moved into an appendix.
19:05:29 <clapierre> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:05:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/06-DPUB-minutes.html clapierre
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