15:57:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
15:57:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/05-mobile-a11y-irc
15:57:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:57:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
15:57:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
15:57:39 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:57:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:57:41 <trackbot> Date: 05 November 2015
15:57:51 <Kathy> rrsagent, make log world
15:57:59 <Kathy> Chair: Kathy
16:01:02 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y
16:04:56 <David> David has joined #mobile-a11y
16:05:14 <David> tried password matf but didn't work
16:08:48 <David> s/maft/xxxxxx
16:09:02 <David> s/matf/xxxxxxxx
16:10:07 <Kathy> http://kwahlbin.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-navigation
16:11:29 <Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/10-21-2015-Survey/results
16:11:35 <Jan> Jan has joined #mobile-a11y
16:11:44 <Kathy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/10-21-2015-Survey/results
16:11:51 <Kathy> http://kwahlbin.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-navigation
16:12:26 <marcjohlic> scribe:  marcjohlic
16:13:12 <marcjohlic> KW:  Alistair suggested:  "I'd change "system assistive technology" to "a system assistive technology requiring touch"..."
16:13:37 <marcjohlic> KW:  Believe he was getting at that it's AT that supports touch
16:16:17 <marcjohlic> KW:  What are things in AT that modifies touch
16:16:44 <marcjohlic> DM:  VoiceOver has it's own gestures - overrides even if an app has the same gestures mapped
16:17:36 <marcjohlic> JR:  Some switch systems override and turn entire screen into one button
16:18:11 <marcjohlic> DM:  Trying switch now - it's just moving through item by item - similar to a swipe
16:18:37 <marcjohlic> JR:  Right and you can have it set to just be a simple touch - but you could also have it setup to  go into a whole array of functions
16:19:39 <marcjohlic> KW:  So if something is not touch accessible, it would not work with the switch on either
16:19:59 <marcjohlic> JR:  Right
16:20:13 <marcjohlic> DM:  I think this doc could be sent to the WCAG group.  I think we're pretty close
16:20:23 <marcjohlic> JR:  I like David's remapping
16:21:37 <Kathy> 2.5.1 Touch: All functions available by touch (or button presses) are still available by touch (or button presses) after system assistive technology that remaps touch gestures is turned on. (Level A)
16:22:28 <marcjohlic> KW:  Have it as a Level A - whether or not we end up with levels is a separate discussion
16:23:05 <marcjohlic> KW:  I think there is a clear priority of things that should happen
16:23:23 <marcjohlic> DM:  I think it's worth putting a mapping on it - whether it's dropped later on or not - it will help for now
16:23:26 <marcjohlic> JR:  I agree
16:23:40 <marcjohlic> JR:  What does the "or button presses" mean ?
16:23:52 <marcjohlic> DM:  It was suggested that many of hte gestures could be done w/ button presses
16:24:02 <marcjohlic> JR:  Physical or on screen?
16:24:06 <marcjohlic> DM:  Physical
16:24:23 <marcjohlic> KW:  Can we get rid of button pressess - and leave that as part of the explanation?
16:24:46 <marcjohlic> DM:  OK with dropping it - I think someone mentioned somethign about it - they were talking about physical buttons liek on the side of the phone.
16:25:30 <Kathy> 2.5.1 Touch: All functions available by touch are still available by touch after system assistive technology that remaps touch gestures is turned on. (Level A)
16:25:33 <marcjohlic> DM:  OK with dropping - but maybe add a comment mentioning the physical button presses
16:26:18 <marcjohlic> JR:  Looks good
16:26:26 <marcjohlic> DM:  Makes sense
16:26:30 <marcjohlic> +1
16:26:57 <marcjohlic> KW:  Any other techniques we need to add here - just to note it
16:27:14 <marcjohlic> KW:  Or Failures?
16:27:30 <marcjohlic> KW:  Currently we just have M003 Touch Activation: Activating elements via the touchend event
16:27:56 <marcjohlic> JR:  Touchend is a different issue - isn't the point there to cover when something it touched accidentally?
16:28:08 <marcjohlic> KW:  yes, you're right - so where would it fall under?
16:28:25 <marcjohlic> JR:  I think it has something to do with error minimization under 3.x.x
16:28:46 <marcjohlic> JR:  It could also be its own thing in Touch and Pointer
16:29:33 <marcjohlic> KW:  Can take M003 out for now - and move it to unknown placement techniques
16:32:10 <marcjohlic> KW:  A technique around:  "Using standard one touch controls"
16:34:03 <marcjohlic> DM:  First Failure would be "Infinite scrolling still works when screen reader is turned on"
16:34:11 <Kathy> Infinite scroll gesture is not available with screen reader
16:34:28 <marcjohlic> +1
16:34:36 <marcjohlic> DM:  "with system screen reader"
16:39:38 <Kathy> 	- Techniques 		○ Using standard one touch controls 		○ Providing touch access for custom controls 	- Failures 		○ Infinite scroll gesture is not available with system screen reader
16:43:14 <David> Unlabeled or badly labeled images. (very annoying if one is reading an article and such graphics are in the middle)
16:43:15 <David> ·       Improperly organized webpages. (higherarcical information organization is key to successful navigation of a webpage with a screen reader for so many reasons)
16:43:17 <David> ·       Inaccessible video content. (so many times, I encounter an article or something with embedded multimedia content that I either can’t access with jaws [unlabeled buttons] or don’t know is there at all.)
16:43:18 <David> ·       Websites that load audio content automatically. (very hard to stop with a screen reader if its loud enough)
16:43:20 <David> ·       Improperly labeled links. (click here, whaaat?)
16:45:24 <Kathy> 2.5.2 No Swipe Trap: When touch input behavior is modified by built-in assistive technology so that touch focus can be moved to a component of the page using swipe gestures, then focus can be moved away from that component using swipe gestures or the user is advised of the method for moving focus away.
16:45:41 <marcjohlic> KW:  Find this one to be too long - get lost in it
16:46:12 <marcjohlic> DM:  Detlev put this one out there - basically if you can get into something with your keyboard you can get back out of it with your keyboard
16:47:00 <David> Unlabeled buttons and controls
16:47:01 <David> 2.
16:47:03 <David> Faking modal windows with non-modal CSS
16:47:04 <David> 3.
16:47:06 <David> Elements onscreen but not in swipe order
16:47:07 <David> 4.
16:47:09 <David> Nonstandard controls when a standard one exists
16:47:11 <David> 5.
16:47:12 <David> Updating that causes voiceover to keep refreshing that
16:47:36 <marcjohlic> JR:  These are good - but doesnt' really speak to someone getting stuck in something
16:47:46 <David> http://www.sitepoint.com/mobile-accessibility-fails-need-wcag3/
16:48:19 <marcjohlic> DM:  Mentions keyboard focus traps
16:48:38 <marcjohlic> KW:  Talking about things that don't automatically close
16:48:43 <marcjohlic> DM:  Good one - but not a trap
16:48:59 <marcjohlic> KW:  Problem is that you can't see the content under it afterward - so it's a block
16:49:08 <marcjohlic> DM:  Definitely a failure we should capture
16:50:04 <marcjohlic> KW:  She also has the mobile hover traps
16:50:17 <marcjohlic> JR:  She uses this term of reverse trap which is interesting
16:52:06 <David> Component can be opened but cannot be closed with touch when a system screen reader is running
16:52:32 <marcjohlic> DM:  This could be  Failure
16:52:43 <David> Component can be opened but cannot be closed with a keyboard when a system screen reader is running
16:52:47 <marcjohlic> KW:  Would be put this under 2.1.1?
16:52:55 <marcjohlic> DM:  No, under 2.5.1
16:53:03 <David> Component can be opened but cannot be closed with a keyboard
16:53:52 <marcjohlic> DM:  This would be a failure for 2.1.1
16:54:33 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
16:54:43 <marcjohlic> present+ Kathy
16:54:48 <marcjohlic> present+ David
16:54:54 <marcjohlic> present+ Jan
16:56:10 <marcjohlic> KW:  Title attribute Gian raises is more of a user agent issue
16:58:11 <marcjohlic> KW:  Next week would like to see if we can get through rest of Touch proposal - so that we can get it to the WCAG WG.  In the survey fill out that section #2.  Review Alistair's comments.
16:59:19 <marcjohlic> KW:  I'll make the changes in GitHub - failures, techniques, and language changes.
16:59:56 <marcjohlic> zakim, list attendees
16:59:56 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been marcjohlic, Kathy, David, Jan
17:00:06 <marcjohlic> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/05-mobile-a11y-minutes.html marcjohlic
17:00:18 <marcjohlic> trackbot, end meeting
17:00:18 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:00:18 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been marcjohlic, Kathy, David, Jan
17:00:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:00:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/05-mobile-a11y-minutes.html trackbot
17:00:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:00:27 <RRSAgent> I see no action items