16:24:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
16:24:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/02-coga-irc
16:27:43 <Lisa_Seeman>   Chair:Lisa_Seeman
16:27:44 <Lisa_Seeman> 
16:27:46 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this
16:27:47 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  review actions, and timelines
16:27:49 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  ARIA requests
16:27:50 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  WCAG feedback
16:27:52 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  Next ftf ideas
16:27:53 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  Other issue papers
16:27:55 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ be done
16:38:47 <EA> EA has joined #coga
16:53:06 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets: Chaohai Ding, ayelet seeman,  E.A. Draffan, Renaldo Bernard , Mike pluke
16:53:13 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:57:17 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
16:58:36 <Lisa_Seeman> on the phone: John and steve
17:01:57 <Lisa_Seeman> on the phone: John and steve and mary jo
17:03:08 <Lisa_Seeman> scribe: JohnRochford
17:03:25 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/actions/open
17:04:03 <Tony_Doran> Tony_Doran has joined #coga
17:05:26 <Tony_Doran> I am supervising a room full of kids btw
17:06:15 <maryjom> maryjom has joined #coga
17:06:53 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Requests Tony pings her tomorrow about open action item
17:06:58 <Lisa_Seeman> on the phone: John and steve and mary jo, and tony doran
17:08:16 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page#Current_schedules
17:10:14 <JohnRochford> Lisa: ARIA group was having a bit of disarray about what their strategy is: Is ARIA getting too bloated, etc.
17:10:45 <JohnRochford> Lisa, you are not on the call.
17:10:59 <JohnRochford> Or, if you are, we can't hear you.
17:11:07 <Tony_Doran> I can hear John no lisa
17:13:23 <JohnRochford> John: I suggest we give Lisa until quarter past the hour. That should give her enough time to connect.
17:13:37 <Tony_Doran> Yay
17:15:12 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Feedback we received from ARIA group is that they want to make our extension happen.
17:15:51 <JohnRochford> Lisa: We should use a COGA prefix, not an ARIA prefix.
17:16:54 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Janina said we have not finished the gap analysis yet.
17:17:40 <Lisa_Seeman> action: to check these are the two issues that group wants from us
17:17:41 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
17:17:53 <Lisa_Seeman> action: Lisa to check these are the two issues that group wants from us
17:17:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-141 - Check these are the two issues that group wants from us [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-11-09].
17:17:56 <JohnRochford> Lisa: ARIA group wants us to use COGA prefix and finish our gap analysis.
17:18:37 <JohnRochford> Lisa: ARIA group won't throw anything away, just move it elsewhere, such as to HTML group.
17:19:01 <JohnRochford> Lisa: ARIA group wants a large table for the gap analysis.
17:19:32 <JohnRochford> Lisa: We did send the ARIA group our WCAG proposal, and there was a lot of feedback.
17:19:37 <JohnRochford> Lisa, we lost you again.
17:19:43 <Lisa_Seeman> oh no
17:24:38 <JohnRochford> EA: Lisa is amazing. (I was not supposed to scribe that.)
17:26:18 <JohnRochford> Lisa: 2 pieces of feedback: 1) We should try to word proposed success criteria as testable (by human or automated).
17:27:21 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Example - Saying something such as "use white space" is not a success criterion.
17:30:45 <Lisa_Seeman> scribe: EA
17:31:54 <EA> Coga needs to word success criteria in a way that is more widely appropriate.
17:32:34 <Lisa_Seeman> when possible and the cost is not high
17:32:48 <EA> Lisa describing the feedback from WCAG - need to make sure no loss of good advice
17:33:25 <Lisa_Seeman> resolution: to make the wording of the SC more widely applicable and testible when there is no loss of good advice
17:33:59 <Lisa_Seeman> dont make it poluler ate the cost of good
17:34:04 <EA> Lisa you are cutting out again
17:34:51 <EA> *1
17:35:03 <EA> +1
17:37:17 <EA> There are issues with measuring certain aspects of the SC - Lisa said could be handled by adaptability - so may need something different. - tagging
17:38:26 <maryjom> +1
17:38:26 <Tony_Doran> +1
17:39:55 <EA> Lisa said need to have guidelines that people can adopt.   Language may have to be different depending on the role of the content.  You can build in exceptions.  Need to look at WCAG 2.0 to see how we can re-word the Success criteria.
17:44:43 <Tony_Doran> Can hear
17:45:20 <Tony_Doran> WShen is it?
17:45:27 <Tony_Doran> Yes
17:45:33 <Tony_Doran> sorry background noise here
17:50:16 <Lisa_Seeman> http://www.sxsw.com/
17:51:53 <EA> Lisa asking about dates for a face to face meeting. - CSUN conference suggested 21-26th 2016 March and South by Southwest  Interactive http://www.sxsw.com/interactive/news/2015/october-content-announcement another option.
17:52:47 <Lisa_Seeman> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015Nov/0006.html
17:53:27 <EA> Lisa - need to finish the gap analysis on the ARIA - Janina suggested this. - Lisa wrote a table and sent it to the new ARIA working group list but meant to send it to coga - now sent to the group.  Does not want to repeat the issue papers and techniques.  Must not lose the thread
17:54:16 <EA> Lisa went on to say that she wants to make sure that the gap analysis needs to be made up of links to the various papers.   Lisa went through the table that she has sent to the group
17:55:43 <EA> So sorry but the connection keeps dropping.
17:56:52 <EA> Lisa went on to say that we need to take a user need - how we handle it in content - how we handle it in WCAG - what is needed in terms of personalisation, system support etc
17:57:13 <EA> Needs discussion links to more of a mapping exercise rather than just content.
17:57:36 <EA> Lisa wanted to check if this was the right approach?
17:58:08 <Tony_Doran> audio awful
17:58:09 <Lisa_Seeman> can you put in a plus 1 if you like the aprouch
17:59:30 <EA> Need to have a document that looks at all the gaps - we need this to before we start adding things such as ARIA etc
18:00:22 <EA> Lisa pointed out that the evaluators need a table which illustrates the gaps.... the issue papers etc are the background
18:00:26 <Tony_Doran> I need to drop off speak tmrw Lisa.
18:02:18 <EA> We need to highlight the fact that some user needs are not met - needs to be seen in a much clearer way - show real problems with integrated solutions.
18:02:28 <Lisa_Seeman> k. thanks for joining
18:04:27 <EA> Thank you everyone...
18:04:35 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, make logs public
18:04:43 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, create minutes
18:04:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/02-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
18:09:55 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, please part
18:09:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
18:10:03 <Lisa_Seeman> rssagent, please part
18:10:22 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, please part
18:10:22 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/02-coga-actions.rdf :
18:10:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: to check these are the two issues that group wants from us [1]
18:10:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/02-coga-irc#T17-17-40
18:10:22 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Lisa to check these are the two issues that group wants from us [2]
18:10:22 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/11/02-coga-irc#T17-17-53