04:05:49 RRSAgent has joined #websigns 04:05:49 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-irc 04:06:03 scribe: shigeya 04:06:08 scribenick: shigeya 04:06:18 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:06:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html sangwhan 04:06:31 Hatano: Experiences and issues of developing web-based signage JavaScript player 04:06:37 Dewa has joined #websigns 04:06:49 hiro_ has joined #websigns 04:07:12 whyun has joined #websigns 04:07:13 kmaru has joined #websigns 04:07:28 sangwhan: Please use speaker queue. Please login to IRC, type q plus and enter. 04:07:33 Roy has joined #websigns 04:07:51 sangwhan: Hatano-san, please 04:08:15 Hatano: We have develope a javascript player 04:08:43 Hatano: Run on runtime on a TV set 04:09:06 Hatano: Also developed a CMS. 04:09:30 Hatano: CMS can send messages to all connected signage player via WebSocket simultaneously 04:10:16 Hatano: At the TAPC hallway, we have shown synchronized displays 04:10:58 a12u has joined #websigns 04:11:04 Hatano: no boxes attached to TV. TV can capable of displaying everything 04:11:36 Hatano: Runs on Raspberry Pi 2 04:12:00 Hatano: "Archietcutre and requirements" complient. 04:13:15 Hatano: Experimenting on companion devices with Single Board Computer (such as Raspberry Pi) with Microcontroller (such as Arduino) 04:14:10 Hatano: Issues: Lack of APIs: play timming synchornization, Power management, mechanisum to use ports in the device 04:14:22 itota has joined #websigns 04:14:39 RRSAgent, make logs public 04:14:46 RRSAgent, draft minutes 04:14:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html sangwhan 04:15:30 Meeting: Web Based Signage Business Group F2F 04:15:37 Hatano: security and Privacy: W3C standards APIs for web browsers used by users. But web-based signage is different in terms of security and privacy 04:15:42 Chair: Sangwhan 04:15:53 RRSAgent, draft minutes 04:15:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html sangwhan 04:15:59 kazho has joined #websigns 04:16:52 Hatano: Web devices designed for specic use -- embedded web 04:17:10 Hatano: We'd like to create a WG. 04:17:55 futomi has joined #websigns 04:17:55 stakagi has joined #websigns 04:18:17 Presentation by Sung Hei Kim @ ETRI 04:18:29 nsakai has joined #websigns 04:19:09 Sung: Architecture and requirements for ... 04:19:28 Sung: Current draft: on requirements 04:19:58 Sung: 1. Classification of severity level for presentation 04:20:05 Sung: 2. Exchanging emergency information 04:20:14 Sung: 3. Presentation of emergency information 04:21:19 kaz has joined #websigns 04:21:35 Zakim has joined #websigns 04:22:09 s/Archietcutre/Architecture/ 04:22:24 s/Run on runtime/Which runs/ 04:22:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:22:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 04:22:35 s/synchornization/synchronization/ 04:22:57 s/develope a/developed a/ 04:23:03 H_Terashima has joined #websigns 04:23:12 Sung: Presentation styles according to severity level 04:23:46 Sung: leve 1 to Level 5, smaller box, gradually larguary, level 5 with sounds 04:23:55 s/play timming/state/ 04:24:06 s/mechanisum/mechanism/ 04:24:27 s/ports in the device/hardware devices directly/ 04:24:28 Sung: Usecase 1, sharing emegency information with users' devices 04:24:39 s/At the TAPC/At the TPAC/ 04:24:52 s/Sung:/SungHei:/ 04:24:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:24:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 04:25:08 s/Sung:/SungHei:/g 04:25:08 Sung: Usecase 2 : Amber (Alerts or a Child Abduction Emergencies) - TBD 04:25:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:25:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 04:25:44 SungHei: Usecase 3: Sharing emergency infromation for effective distribution 04:26:47 q+ 04:26:58 Adachi_ACCESS has joined #websigns 04:27:01 SungHei: Future plan: Define CCS(?) style for severity level, define more usecases, define requirements, Harmonized with other SDO 04:27:14 s/CCS(?)/CSS/ 04:27:37 jay has joined #websigns 04:28:10 Takano: question: on page 4, how do you device level 1 through level 5? 04:28:24 s/Takano/Tanaka/ 04:28:25 s/Takano:/Kiyoshi:/ 04:28:36 s/Tanaka/Kiyoshi/ 04:29:48 Kawada: presentation: Study on performance benchmarking for web-based sginage terminals 04:30:24 skim13 has joined #websigns 04:30:45 ?: Need clarification whether you got approval from Keio, KDDI and W3C? 04:30:49 Kawada: yes 04:31:00 s/?:/kaz:/ 04:31:51 Kawada; Current members: Access, CATS, Computer Engineering & Consulting, Keio, Newphoria, Toshiba 04:32:32 Kawada: performace benchimarking is improtant for embedded system like web-based signage 04:33:03 StephanS has joined #websigns 04:33:23 s|whether you got approval from Keio, KDDI and W3C?|if you got approval from both KDDI and W3C/Keio about this presentation| 04:33:59 q+ 04:34:11 q- 04:34:57 http://wpb.sakura.ne.jp/WPBtest 04:35:02 usrname: wpbtest passowrd: w3ckeiosfc 04:35:17 Kawada: done: requirements, testing specification, contents guidelines, testing contents 04:36:54 Kawada: using CSS transition 04:37:17 (kawada-san demonstrating on projector) 04:38:45 Kawada: Seven components,: resolution, storage, rendering speed, parallel processing, playing video, playing audio, playing delay time (video / audio) 04:39:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:39:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 04:39:33 Kawada: Merits of stakeholders 04:39:46 ... Collaboratioon with Digital Signage Consortium 04:40:59 Sangwhan: Is develped by who? 04:41:07 Kawada: developed by Keio 04:41:48 Kawada: Performance measurement is relaly new to W3C. 04:42:47 present+ Sangwhan_Moon(Opera), Futomi_Hatano(Newphoria), Kiyoshi_Tanaka(NTT), Shigeru_Fujimura(NTT), Wook_Hyun(ETRI), Sunghei_Kim(ETRI), Youngsun_Ryu(Samsung), Yohsuke_Adachi(ACCESS), Yoshiharu_Dewa(Sony), Takashi_Ito(Sony), Narumichi_Sakai(Toshiba), Hiroyuki_Aizu(Toshiba) 04:43:25 Kiyoshi: presentation: on ITU liaison statement on web-based digital signage work in ITU-T Q14/16 [to W3C] 04:43:27 s/relaly/relatively/ 04:44:02 ... Q14/16 intends to study web-based architecure of digital signage 04:45:09 ... Q14 want to harmonize with such W3C's works 04:45:58 q; 04:46:08 q+ 04:46:14 q- 04:46:40 q+ 04:47:44 Jay: I want to confirm who can respond to the formal letter. BG can formally? or W3C or ... any other? 04:47:53 shoko has joined #websigns 04:48:21 sangwhan: it's really a formality. honestly I don't know. 04:48:31 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/11/StdLiaison w3c liaison 04:48:33 kaz: do you know W3C liaison page? 04:49:34 fukatsu has joined #websigns 04:49:43 sangwhan: anyboday against to the liaison? 04:49:57 kaz: there is already such exists at IPTV 04:50:04 s/anyboday/anybody/ 04:50:50 sangwhan: I will start mail thread. Just a formality 04:51:16 sangwhan: Move on to next item: charter. 04:51:19 [ITU-T SG16 right?] 04:51:38 s/at IPTV/regarding IPTV/ 04:51:48 sangwhan: Link to Draft charter: http://bit.ly/1kKj0RU 04:51:52 fuji has joined #websigns 04:52:06 "Web Signage Working Group Charter (Working Draft)" 04:52:09 HT has joined #websigns 04:52:10 s/IPTV/IPTV, and I myself am the liaison contact from the W3C side/ 04:52:43 sangwhan: Essentially, based on boiler-plate texts 04:52:51 present+ Kaz_Ashimura(W3C), Tetsuo_Tokunaga(NTT), Hiroshi_Yoshida(Hakuhodo), Roy_Kawada(W3C/KDDI), Shigeya_Suzuki(Keio), Hideaki_Terashima(Mitsubishi_Electric), Akira_Masuzawa(Hakuhodo), Kosuke_Ushiro(Hakuhodo), Takeshi_Nakayama(Panasonic), Katsuhiko_Kawazoe(NTT), Akihito_Akutsu(NTT), Hiroto_Inoshita(Keio), Jay_Kishigami(AB), Riko_Yagiu(observer) 04:52:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:52:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 04:53:04 ... essentially tanaka-san composed a list 04:53:26 ... go through the charter items, then present W3C AC, W3C as a whole 04:54:18 ... out of scope.. anybody fine with this? 04:54:35 ... we listed potential deliverables which is long.. 04:55:16 ... Power Management API: should have API power cycle, but has security issue 04:55:37 ... All of specs will be security reviewed 04:55:58 ... Understandable we need this, how we can do this is another question. 04:56:36 Hatano volunteered as an editor (for Power Management) 04:57:42 Kihyoshi: yesterday we have break-out session, but there are somebody who haven't attend the session. Thus, we need to describe our intention. 04:58:09 sangwhan: what we want to do is creating a WG charter. 04:59:15 Kiyoshi: These APIs or specs, we select really wanted APIs. ask a opinon to attendees, but we haven't deided, we need to decide 04:59:33 Hatano: He have shown possibilities. 04:59:42 sangwhan: we can remove some features 05:00:03 Kiyoshi: some features are postponed. such as systen context or USBs 05:00:16 Kiyoshi: BG members konw requirements on some 05:00:43 sangwhan: we have an hour but this chater is long... 05:01:01 Kiyoshi: we have a slide to list all of the items. 05:01:20 Kiyoshi: (showing the slide used at Breakout session yesterday) 05:02:00 Kiyoshi: On page 14 05:03:06 Kiyoshi: eight APIs: Power management API (no WG), NTP Client API (decided after discussion with Multi-device tiing CG), System Context (decided after discussion in Web-based signage BG), System Event (SysApps WG for service worker issues) 05:03:23 i/Experiences and/topic: Web-based signage JavaScript player/ 05:03:47 Kiyoshi: Multiple resources for video and Multicast video playback (Mediat TF), access control of external storage (Decided after discussion in Web-based Signage BG), Double buffering API (SysAps WG for service worker use) 05:04:21 s/topic: Web-based signage JavaScript player/topic: Introduction of web-based signage experiences and bringing up technical issues/ 05:04:52 i/Presentation by Sung/ WDS Emergency profile : Status and future plan (ETRI)/ 05:05:18 s/technical issues/technical issues (Newphoria)/ 05:05:25 Back to chater, on Web NTP Protocol 05:06:07 i/Study on performance/topic: Report of study on benchmarking Web-based Signage terminals (Roy)/ 05:06:27 sangwhan: Anybody want to add item, now is the time. 05:07:10 ?: I just wondered this proposel include display status. Since screen should be turned off while terminal is powered 05:07:39 i/presentaton: on ITU/topic: ITU-T liaison/ 05:07:42 s/display status/screen state/ 05:08:04 sangwhan: Isn't it possible to use sensor? 05:08:15 i/Link to Draft/topic: About chartering a WG (NTT)/ 05:08:20 ?: there is a regulation on brightness setting 05:08:43 s/?:/Wook:/ 05:09:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:09:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:09:58 sangwhan: PC based system may or may not work. 05:11:30 Adachi: Device status included? 05:11:44 Adachi: memory size, etc.. 05:12:30 Adachi: memory, CPU and temperature. 05:12:41 Adachi: CPU usage 05:12:54 jay has joined #websigns 05:13:11 s/temperature/CPU temperature/ 05:13:57 Sangwhan: FireFox OS has. we should take look at that 05:14:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:14:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:14:43 q+ 05:14:53 Hatano: How you can access with help of operating system since signage application runs on userland. 05:15:09 s/userland./userland was a question/ 05:15:12 s/?:/Wook:/ 05:15:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:15:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:15:20 q? 05:15:24 ack f 05:15:24 q- 05:15:25 ack j 05:15:29 ack d 05:16:01 Dewa: color meter or color temperature might be useful to be added 05:16:12 i/presentation: on ITU liaison statement on web-based/topic: ITU-T Liaison/ 05:16:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:16:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:17:00 s/color meter/colorimetry/ 05:17:29 q- 05:17:32 Topic: system events 05:17:44 i/Link to Draft charter:/topic: About chartering a WG (NTT)/ 05:17:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:17:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:17:55 sangwhan: I honestly have no good idea to how to implemnt this in browser. 05:18:03 s/in browser/in a browser/ 05:18:29 s/implemnt/implement/ 05:19:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:19:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:19:48 Topic: Multiple resources for video 05:20:02 Hatano: we may skip it. 05:21:11 sangwhan: Who proposed this should visit DASH, since DASH can solve some of them. 05:21:50 ???: we have implemented using object, DASH is not good for our usecase 05:21:58 s/???:/ito:/ 05:22:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:22:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:22:08 s/???/Ito/ 05:22:19 ... resolution of panel is getting higher and higher, but the graphics chipset performance is not following well enough 05:23:01 sangwhan: Anybody want to work to resolve with some industrial standard on this? 05:24:08 sangwhan: We need contribution, withtout such, we have to reduce number of work items. 05:25:53 Kiyoshi: We may wnat to list only matured API topics 05:26:33 Topic: Multicast video playback 05:27:10 sangwhan: This is valid use case but whether fits here 05:27:55 Ito: Sony has implemented multicast functionality in Bravia 05:28:09 Ito: hard to align with unicast based spec. 05:28:29 Sangwhan: mutlicast don't have URL that's an issue 05:29:19 Ito: video codec selection... 05:29:43 Ito: this can be done with UDP api on user agent. 05:30:15 Sangwhan: Will Sony willing to write a short memo on how video tags can be improved? 05:31:22 Sangwhan: Media task force can work on this, thus ask them 05:31:38 Topic: Access control of external storage 05:31:46 Ito: Sony have implemented this. 05:32:08 Ito: actually this is very useful when deploying. 05:32:36 Ito: Sometimes it is difficult to use single shared network to deliver video contents on lot of devices. 05:32:58 ... storing large media on to these local media helps. 05:33:51 sangwhan: This is a very valid use case. 05:34:15 sangwhan: This is the one we should define. 05:34:37 s/wnat to list/list/ 05:34:58 Ito: capacity management API should be implemented 05:36:51 sangwhan: This is the one which does not belong to our charter, because its generic. 05:38:31 ... make use of service worker to access these specialzed storage (cache) 05:38:57 sangwhan marked as candidate for removal. 05:38:58 q+ 05:39:15 Topic: Double Buffering API 05:40:38 q? 05:40:58 q- 05:41:55 sangwhan: I don't think we should define this since there are several way to do this. 05:42:31 q+ 05:42:40 ... like to remove unless someone want to implement this. 05:43:07 q+ 05:43:35 ack k 05:43:42 Jay: I still confusing with the word "double" 05:44:33 q+ 05:45:09 Fujimura: "double buffering" name came from Java environment 05:45:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 05:45:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 05:45:51 sangwhan: Topic: schedule in charter 05:46:30 sangwhan: Q2 2015 seems reasonable for FPWD 05:47:20 s/Q2 2015/Q2 2016/ 05:48:38 sangwhan: Any BG only member? 05:49:05 scribe: sangwhan 05:49:23 sangwhan: I would like to propose closing the business group. 05:49:55 Hatano: our possible selections are close-BG or create a CG, 05:50:22 sangwhan: How many of BG members joining WG. How manys are not sure 05:50:35 q 05:50:50 sangwhan: since this require IP commintment, need to consul 05:50:52 q+ 05:51:32 ????: we want to continue discuss use cases 05:52:02 sangwhan: switching to WG does not mean we can introduce new usecases 05:52:06 s/????/aizu/ 05:53:13 sangwhan: WG has IRC and mailing list to communitate with 05:53:28 s/mailing list/public mailing list/ 05:54:10 q? 05:54:19 Kiyoshi: We can contiue discuss at BG or CG. 05:54:37 q+ 05:55:30 sangwhan: WG can.. get usecases, get input, put into chater (next time on recharter) effectively same. 05:56:22 Hatano: (on white board): WG+BG, WG+CG, WG only 05:56:39 https://www.w3.org/community/about/faq/ 05:58:18 q? 05:58:21 ack j 05:58:37 Jay: It seems difficult to decide now. 05:59:51 Jay: many non-members are not used to post feedback on mailing list. 05:59:52 q- 06:00:20 sangwhan; BG is stay at least for another six months 06:00:33 s/sangwhan;/sangwhan:/ 06:01:03 q? 06:01:18 q- 06:01:33 ack k 06:02:53 kaz; Automotive group originated from BG 06:02:59 s/kaz;/kaz:/ 06:04:05 kaz: Remiding: WG: works on specs, BG: incumbator (CG can be also act as incumbator). CG is free BG require some membership fee 06:04:39 sangwhan: Raise a hand if you're Japanese => most of attendees 06:05:21 sangwhan: Another questionaire: No one *not post* to mailing list because it's in English. 06:06:15 sangwhan: Japanese only community group help? 06:06:30 sangwhan: (possibly in Chinese, Korean..) 06:07:52 q+ 06:08:11 Kawada: I come up with third option. 06:08:21 ... how about make a transition period 06:08:48 ... while creating WG, keep BG for some short period. 06:09:57 Jay: my concern, may be there are no need to part of W3C. 06:10:26 ... its a just a requirement only from Japan. In this sense, CG might be good. 06:10:52 ... AC meeting started already at 3.. 06:11:10 s/short period./short period. in addition, we could have a Japanese CG and I can lead the Japanese discussion/ 06:11:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 06:11:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 06:16:23 [ afternoon break ] 06:16:24 rrsagent, draft minutes 06:16:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/29-websigns-minutes.html kaz 06:24:26 shigeya has joined #websigns 06:25:52 itota has joined #websigns 06:30:05 Adachi_ACCESS has joined #websigns 06:30:53 naomi has joined #websigns 06:32:42 tetsuro has joined #websigns 06:32:44 Roy has joined #websigns 06:33:18 AndroUser2 has joined #websigns 06:35:22 scribe: sangwhan 06:35:42 a12u has joined #websigns 06:35:48 Francois presenting Multi-Device Timing CG 06:35:52 [francoi introducing MultiDevide Timing CG] 06:36:06 s/Francois presenting Multi-Device Timing CG/ 06:36:11 [Francois presenting Multi-Device Timing CG ] 06:36:25 Francois: Some of you might have seen me during WebTV 06:36:52 ... I've shared this with a couple members during TPAC 06:36:59 ... seems like quite a few are interested 06:37:18 ... So who hasn't seen the presentation during WebTV 06:37:29 (people raise hands) 06:37:56 ... some synchronization issue experts have been doing this work 06:38:04 ... based in a Norwegian research institute 06:38:20 ... it is fair to say that the CG is mostly me, them, and a couple others 06:38:38 ... the participation is not extremely active, but we are working on it 06:38:50 ... I'm helping them convert their ideas into a spec 06:39:02 nsakai has joined #websigns 06:39:03 ... although I'm not a sync specialist, but they aren't a web specialist 06:39:28 ... in a signage scenario you know better than I do so you can share your experiences/issues with me 06:39:34 ... but I believe you will benefit from this 06:40:02 ... a few figures you need to keep in mind in the context of sync 06:40:08 ... 25ms is frame accuracy 06:40:45 ... 10ms is important for audio sync 06:40:58 ... human ears can detect sync issues with audio at that threshold 06:41:08 ... unfortunately hard in browsers atm 06:41:22 ... To synchronize, you need to synchronize clocks 06:41:39 ... normally easy to achieve, one device requests other device 06:41:54 ... and do this occasionally to stay in sync 06:42:05 ... all the deployed clock sync mechanisms are different 06:42:22 ... e.g. NTP, PTP, other different standards in DTV contexts such as HbbTV 06:42:34 ... all of them start from the same simple idea but differs in implementation 06:42:42 ... it's hard to agree on how to standardize on clock sync 06:42:51 ... it's possible with a pure JS implementation 06:43:07 ... it's not accurate to the microsecond, but is within milliseconds 06:43:26 ... which is good enough 06:44:10 ... once you have a a synced clock, you distributed the updates across devices 06:44:36 ... not very network intensive, you can use WS or HTTP 06:44:54 ... hardest part is harnessing the media player 06:45:03 ... you need a way to associate your timeline with the media element 06:45:13 ... you need to tell it to use my timeline, and use my clock 06:45:18 ... this can be somewhat emulated in JS 06:45:25 ... there are some demos in the main hall 06:45:36 ... some have demos of cross device sync, which are done by some of you 06:45:55 Futomi: Yes, there were some 06:46:19 ... I developed things like ntp over websockets, but the precision isn't good enough 06:46:30 q+ 06:46:31 kaz has joined #websigns 06:46:31 ... wasn't good enough for lib sync 06:46:56 Francois: From my experience clock sync wasn't the main problem 06:47:07 Futomi: I only developed time sync 06:47:09 s/lib/lip/ 06:47:22 ... so technically it wasn't enough to get everything in place 06:47:34 ... would be interested in making it work with video playback 06:47:45 Francois: Media player harnessing is possible with js but it's hacky 06:47:50 ... wasn't actually meant to be used that way 06:48:12 Ito: We've tried this kind of mechanism 06:48:27 ... in a video context, it was good enough 06:48:44 ack i 06:48:59 Francois: From my experience it depends on the codec and player 06:49:08 ... and depends on that 06:49:34 ... I'll try a couple demos, so you get a idea of what we have done 06:49:40 ... and see if it works or not 06:50:02 ... please go to this url 06:50:07 ... http://kwz.me/MW 06:50:27 ... and when you are all connected let me know 06:51:12 ... so this uses a JS implementation from the motion corporation 06:51:21 ... it mostly follows the timing object spec 06:51:26 ... but it's a previous version 06:51:32 ... you should see a clock on your computer 06:52:02 ... this will be in sync with what you have on your screen 06:52:09 ... next is lip sync demo 06:52:19 ... if you have sound on your pc you'll hear audio 06:52:25 ... we might hear some echo 06:52:56 http://seer2.itek.norut.no/pres/w3c/secondary.html 06:53:04 ... when I use trickplay you shouldn't notice that my screen and your screen is out of sync 06:53:10 ... final one is what the timing object is about 06:53:35 ... when you want to sync stuff you can manually count and press buttons 06:53:37 ... but not good enough 06:53:56 ... but another way would be to send the command from the control server 06:54:24 ... there might be a bit of echo, as the command delivery can be delayed 06:54:48 ... there are problems with clock drifting and media element implementation differences 06:55:02 ... this makes it slightly better 06:55:41 ... it gets synced up as time passes 06:55:46 ... might take up to a minute 06:56:09 ... atm there is no implementation and is only a draft 06:57:03 ... the protocol is not specified 06:57:20 stakagi has joined #websigns 06:57:22