23:39:10 RRSAgent has joined #annotation 23:39:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/26-annotation-irc 23:39:18 rrsagent, set log public 23:40:08 Meeting: Annotation WG F2F, Sapporo, 2nd day 23:40:12 Chair: Rob 23:40:29 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Meetings#Tuesday_27_October 23:40:40 ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Meetings#Tuesday_27_October 23:42:26 clapierre has joined #annotation 23:43:54 RRSAgent, this meeting spans midnight 23:54:05 kurosawa has joined #annotation 23:59:37 csarven has joined #annotation 00:01:23 takeshi has joined #annotation 00:08:55 tzviya has joined #annotation 00:21:00 azaroth has joined #annotation 00:21:03 present+ csarven 00:21:07 present+ Rob_Sanderson 00:21:12 scribenick: csarven 00:21:13 present+ ivan 00:21:13 Present+ Takeshi_Kanai 00:21:18 erikmannens has joined #annotation 00:21:38 present+ csarven 00:22:48 Ralph has joined #annotation 00:23:38 present+ tbl 00:23:40 present+ ralph 00:23:47 present: Ira 00:23:53 present+ Doug 00:24:01 present+ benjamin 00:24:15 present: bigbluehat 00:24:22 present+ bigbluehat 00:26:43 Zakim has joined #annotation 00:27:30 ivan: Cleaned up the minutes 00:27:36 shevski has joined #annotation 00:27:50 http://www.w3.org/2015/10/25-annotation-minutes.html 00:27:57 ty 00:28:04 Minutes from yesterday ^^ 00:28:20 ...URL refers to the 25th of October, but it was started in 26th in JP TZ 00:28:29 ...err 27 here in JP 00:29:46 timbl has joined #annotation 00:29:49 azaroth: Ann came up to reorganize the agenda.. to move the Social API discussion to the afternoon. To start with the non-social stuff in the morning. To collaborate with Social WG in the afternoon 00:30:09 present+ timbl 00:31:13 azaroth: In the issues list... 00:31:13 Issues: https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Atpac+label%3Amodel 00:31:28 ...I have taked the outstanding issues for TPAC 00:31:49 ...I propose to start at the bottom 00:32:13 ...We don't have to dig down to the technical details. Mostly about if we are going to reach this or not 00:32:15 sorted by oldest https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Atpac+label%3Amodel+sort%3Acreated-asc 00:32:20 ...Issue #8 first 00:32:30 ...Came up long ago - early WG calls 00:32:41 ...Some Annotations are generated for particular purpose or intended audience 00:32:53 ...Annotation be able to express what that audience is 00:32:56 -> https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues/8 issue 8 00:33:12 ...This Annotation is intended for this audience... e.g.,students 00:33:37 ...Audience in schema.org .. has been adopted by (?) ... and some interest in other communities 00:33:54 s/(?)/IDPF/ 00:34:14 Ira: Is there a provision to hide some of those? 00:34:27 ...An obvious UC for this audience is.. hey, this is team-only comments 00:34:40 shepazu: We don't have an auth server for this 00:34:56 atai_ has joined #annotation 00:34:57 timbl: We were talking abou eralier.. annotations being channels. 00:35:05 ...subscribe and aggregate channels 00:35:13 ...e.g., student, teacher channels 00:35:20 shepazu: I agree with all that 00:35:42 ...There is another UC, wher eyou want ot be able to say that this thing is regardless of the channels... b/c it is your annotation, yo umight want to have a little thing that says.. who is this intended for 00:35:51 ...that could be anybody, or any noumber of people 00:36:01 Iva: e.g., Goths (?) 00:36:08 s/(?)// 00:36:24 shepazu: I don't htink we should put it in the model 00:36:36 ... it is essentially metadata 00:36:43 Iva: generic metadata tag 00:37:20 ivan: I think that technically speaking, the only thing we have to do is have one single property... if it is audience or whatever, which is completely open ended for whatever the value is and let the implimentations figure that out 00:37:30 ...we= shouldn't define what those possible vlaues are 00:37:36 shepazu: I'm not sure if we are saying the same thing or not 00:37:41 ...I'm suggesting we shouldn't have audience at all 00:37:50 ...may be useful for some people 00:38:03 ...basically this is the metadata area.. put whatever you want in there 00:38:12 ...okay so (walks to the whiteboard) 00:38:24 ivan: You are saying like a hook 00:38:44 ...I'm not saying it is required 00:38:50 ...it is up to you if you want to use it or not 00:39:08 Iva: Instead of specifying what it is but having a generic property - that's what Doug is saying 00:39:23 timbl: So use like a hashtag? 00:39:43 shepazu: Some people are going to send a straight web annotation and others will supplement wiht extra things 00:39:54 timbl: If it is shipped in RDF, you can do/put whatever you like 00:40:16 azaroth: For example, DPUB community has a specific audience, but it is the same concept for intended audience for this annotation 00:40:25 shepazu: What about outside of the academic community e.g., Goths? 00:40:50 What stops anyone from adding schema:audience to their annotations already? I asked this on the issue, too. 00:40:54 Iva: ..Then what other buckets do we have to consider... as soon as you add one, then you have to consider.. 00:41:40 ivan: We can say we don't do anything and leave it as it is... it is open-ended, people can add properties.. and they can do that. The question is where do we draw the line? The audience is one of those things where it is widely used if it is worst to call it out or.. we need ot draw the line somewhere. 00:41:49 ...We did something like motivations which is sort of like the same thing. 00:42:13 ...But we feel that it is common that we defined it 00:42:25 bigbluehat: We also have roles 00:42:39 ...motivation on the whole annotation will be on the comment for whatever is intended. 00:42:48 Iva: So, it is sort of like a type 00:42:56 azaroth: There SHOULD at least be one motivation 00:43:05 ...includes things like bookmarking, commenting, reviewing, tagging.. 00:43:19 ...previous systems, we used classes. but class hierarchy.. 00:43:28 ivan: In this case motivation is in the same category of things 00:43:45 shepazu: I think that we broke out roles are that they are functional things. 00:43:48 ...based on role something has 00:43:53 ivan: Motivation and Role are not the same 00:43:59 ...Motivation on the Annotation.. 00:44:21 shepazu: I think that the point is , what behaviour do we expect from the UA towards that thing 00:44:46 ...I would like to break version 1 of the data model down to what specific actions the UA going to take for this thing. 00:45:02 ...the we think that that's a strong enough UC 00:45:12 bigbluehat: .. how much do we provide in SHOULDs and MAYs 00:45:25 ...b/c of the UC we found 00:45:43 ...It shouldn't be core, but this is what we suggest... 00:45:51 ...You as a JSON coder and drop this here and the keys out 00:47:16 Iva: I want to see the comments on the day 1 of this conf.. 00:47:22 ...to see the particular streams 00:48:06 ivan: I don't know if tag is the right property for using a single property for this 00:48:16 shevski has joined #annotation 00:48:41 ivan: literal or URI range 00:48:43 timbl: That's not very RDFy 00:49:05 bigbluehat: If we knew the developres, our extension model is already there to say that.. 00:49:24 ...this is a bag which you can put whatever.. or suggest things 00:50:03 timbl: if you want to extend this, there is an RDF.. in the JSON world, well if you want to extend it, all other JSON keys will be mapped into our ns 00:50:19 ...So, in other words, if you add something random in there... call us and rev the spec 00:50:36 ...if you add another key to JSON API.. then asking for gloval scope to change.. 00:50:51 ivan: I have the impression that, this is the kind of discussion that we can carry on for several hours 00:51:08 ...I propose for the next version of the document; clear feedback from the community 00:51:22 ...we may come up with loads of other properties that we formally define.. essentially open ended properties 00:51:44 ...we define, but we don't know if it will be really useful or not - need feedback from community 00:51:54 ...I can't say ATM that RDF makes that cut. 00:52:16 ...We have to draw the line somewhere.. and where the line should be drawn here, we can't discuss that now. 00:52:34 Iva: Instead of getting feedback from the community, this is the stuff that needs to come out how people will use this.. 00:52:54 ...e.g., hashtags before it became a thing.. organically cam eout and then specified later 00:53:10 ivan: I don't think we are contradicting 00:53:25 ...These are the questions about the core.. we get feedback 00:53:37 shepazu: I would like to see it rise organically 00:54:13 azaroth: There is the EPUB folks, and their mapping of the ... schema.org. One required for them. 00:54:45 ...(?) along the same lines. Two different communities asking for the same thing. 00:55:00 ...Solution for hypothesis/Annotator... 00:55:20 ...It is just the user adding in the tags 00:55:41 ...labeling that in the model or more specific ways for it 00:55:55 shepazu: Haven't we traditionally, treating tags as ... (?) 00:56:17 bigbluehat: Annotions in hypothesis for tags is not entirely clear.. an arbitrary call 00:56:40 ...I use them in different ways e.f., format comment, or resource.. and they are not technically associated but being annotation. 00:56:46 shepazu: Depends on precise you want to be 00:56:54 ivan: How should we move on? 00:57:28 azaroth: Consensus is that.. list as audience or list structure for poll .. which could be used.. however, we can also that we are not going to deal with it 00:57:52 bigbluehat: I think for audience, we should discuss again. Also bring up again for dumping ground other people to put 00:58:21 ...model wise, for JSOn developer if they don't want ot use.. they can decide. They could bne legitimate RDF graphs. 00:58:33 ivan: Lets separate audience stuff from the others 00:58:39 ...we should document 00:58:51 ...I would like to see a more precise proposal for the generic stuff 00:59:10 ...Trying to get feedback from the community to see whether it is useful or not.. we should not close (issue 8) either way 01:00:36 timbl: You are looking for one annotation, and it got this audience column e.g., student, and click on that and my system knows 01:00:54 ...For that, it doesn't have particular properties, the UI can find 01:01:25 azaroth: Okay, lets discuss later. 01:02:07 ivan: The word "tag" is overloaded even in this group 01:03:10 azaroth: Issue 18 (?) 01:03:12 takeshi has joined #annotation 01:04:05 issue: https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues/10 01:04:05 Created ISSUE-25 - Https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues/10. Please complete additional details at . 01:05:02 ivan: I do understand the difference.. 80/20 cut situation. the annotation has an id, yes, this is annotation expressed in rdf, json-ld or whatever.. which is identrified this way.. lets not go there 01:05:06 shepazu: I see this valuable 01:05:26 ...We should wait to see how much this idea is used ou tthere before saying it officially in the core model 01:05:41 ...By punting on it to see how the community does it.. but the community can come up with something different. 01:05:56 ...that's an area they can decide how best 01:06:13 ...rather than having exactly how to do it, we should probably accept that the UC is valid 01:06:18 ivan: That's what I said. 01:06:36 azaroth: The complexityu of adding it far outweighs 01:06:49 ivan: Then we get into the HTTPRange... 01:07:15 azaroth: Does anyone want to argue for it? 01:07:19 ...or close? 01:07:30 shepazu: Can we have a tag for issues tag for 'possible future version' 01:07:38 ivan: postpone 01:07:42 shepazu: v-next 01:07:51 .. 01:08:45 azaroth: Next up is issue 18 01:08:51 https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues/18 01:08:51 https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues/18 01:09:11 azaroth: this is more of a vocab question than a model question 01:09:21 ...at least two diff vocabs to express general class of a resource 01:09:28 ...we have even reduced from SHOULD to MAY 01:09:37 ...however, there is some interest using in schema.org 01:09:40 ...resource classes 01:09:50 ...compares to/as well as DC 01:10:15 ...But really the issue is ... what the resource is for those classes 01:10:21 shepazu: I'm still inclined to prefer mimetypes 01:10:28 azaroth: Right, that is a SHOULD in trhe model 01:10:38 ...assuming you are not saying remove Classes in the model 01:10:55 bigbluehat: there are some mediatypes which don't give enough 01:11:05 azaroth: e.g., you can use media fragments time based 01:11:37 ivan: I'm not even sure if you are right.. b/c a specific fragment is bound to a media type 01:11:48 shepazu: but the media type for animated gif and gif are the same 01:11:54 ...depends on the implementation right 01:12:10 azaroth: erikmannens , Do you recall what happened? 01:12:17 erikmannens: Will check 01:12:36 shepazu: I strongly prefer schema.org 01:12:52 ivan: what is the current status with W3C on that? 01:13:01 ... I don't know what the answer is 01:13:33 shepazu: the question is.. when we are referring to DC to schema.org... and we want to know can we normatively reference schema.org? 01:13:55 timbl: We can see it as a reasonable thing to request 01:14:18 shepazu: It is a matter of referencing an external resource.. 01:15:07 azaroth: For the resources participate in the annotation ... e.g., i'd like to say the thing on youtube is a video.. but they might change that, what I do know is that that is a video.. 01:15:18 ...the target of the annotation is a webpage, and yo uwant to display it as an iframe 01:15:22 shepazu: I thini kthe issue is larger than that 01:15:31 ... e.g., "for author" 01:15:40 timbl: The specific question is.. broadly classifying media 01:16:05 ...we want interoperability 01:17:06 ...in general err on the side that people understand everything 01:17:24 (or don't? .. slightly inaudible) 01:17:53 bigbluehat: schema.org is centralized 01:17:55 timbl: centralized 01:18:14 ... on the other hand, you want it to be understood 01:18:40 ...what you want is to get everybody moving together 01:18:49 ...you are trying to get interoperability 01:18:52 takeshi_ has joined #annotation 01:19:01 shepazu: In that same respect, the odds that you are going to get w/ interoperability 01:19:15 ... how broad is an ontology, how many things does it address, and how many sites are using it 01:19:29 ...and within a short years, it is used more than DC 01:19:32 ivan: That's not true 01:19:37 bigbluehat: No.. 01:19:52 timbl: There is a huge amount of schema.org stuff out there run by Google Search engine 01:19:55 shepazu: Not only Google 01:19:57 timbl: Right 01:20:14 ...So there is a lot of code that uses DC out there 01:20:28 ...so if you try to move all that code from DC to schema.org.. 01:20:35 shepazu: I'm clearly not going to win this audience over 01:20:46 azaroth: We can look at another issue 01:21:31 ...probably not going to make progress on that now 01:21:35 azaroth: Next up is issue 21 01:21:38 https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues/21 01:21:56 azaroth: 21 is somewhat of a protocol related topic 01:22:07 ...the topology... and the annotation ecosystem 01:22:16 ...if you have a same annotation that's duplicated over multiple sites 01:22:33 ...should we make a reference between duplicate annotations 01:22:46 ...to indicate whether to keep copies 01:23:14 ivan: I'm not sure I understand 01:23:21 ...I'll exaplin what I don't understand 01:23:31 ...an annotation is defined in a way that it should have its own identifier 01:23:47 ...so if I replicate an annotation, but keep the identrifier.. then it is conceptually it is the same thing.. just made a copy 01:23:56 ...the id uniquely identifies that is annotation 01:24:06 azaroth: From pure RDF POV, you can always use the same URI 01:24:20 ...when you add the HTTP layer... and available to be retrieved.. 01:24:35 ivan: So you create a new annotation similar but with diff id 01:24:38 ...not the same 01:24:46 azaroth: Should we maintain the provenance 01:24:57 ivan: Is it an extra information, which cuts the line necessity or not 01:25:08 bigbluehat: This gets tricky in regards ot decentralized and moving the annotations around 01:25:25 ...the original URI farther and farther as it moves around.. and it gets a diff URL even though it is pretty much the same 01:25:34 ... but you are "getting a new URI" 01:26:06 ... we are talking about moving an annotation around ... essentially the same annotation 01:26:55 timbl: You dl the entire the file and remember where it came from.. it now understands what the base URL is 01:27:09 ... the other model is you copy and have a diff copy, allow people to eedit it and don't care about where it came from 01:27:41 bigbluehat: Whether annotations are muted or not 01:28:00 shepazu: Another wrinkle to core topic is.. I can publish an annotation to multiple servers.. would they have the same id 01:28:24 ivan: Almost comes back to http14 01:28:32 ...an id regardless of its location 01:28:54 ...conceptually have the same thing when you just copy 01:29:13 ...for the time being the model has a URI.. a single URI.. which is the id of the annotation. 01:29:21 ...we have two concepts and the model has only one 01:29:28 shepazu: Is the URL inside the annotation? 01:30:38 timbl: 3.. do heuristics on it to come up with another id 01:31:02 ...e.g., vcard is useful for things.. which means tha tyou can squish it together.. syncing together.. 01:32:04 Ira: I just don't want ot see diff.. 2) i want to see the annotatoin is reaally about the content that I'm seeing (the context is maintained) .. 01:32:23 ...the question should be resovled, if i comment or reference, .. does that get propagated across 01:32:43 ... lets say i only subscribe to one annotation server.. and not interested in the others 01:32:51 ... from the users perspective 01:33:21 shepazu: Just to supplement that.. that says to me that the annotation is.. regardless of where it is published, it should have a new globally unique id 01:33:58 takeshi_: ... many become offline, or device, or website.. after when device is connected, so if we have diff uid, it is difficult to find 01:34:13 ...it depends on how we synchronize the annotation 01:34:57 shepazu: Another similar case to offline, i have made 20 annotation on my laptop.. that's the only place they live.. and only I decide to share them.. whether published it to somewhere... and then the uid. 01:35:21 ivan: In the issue itself Paolo says that.. there are other vocab with prov. .. to add additional info e.g., derivedFrom 01:35:35 shevski has joined #annotation 01:35:43 ... if annotatoin server adds a new thing, they can track a new thing... where it came from.. so the provenance is there 01:35:51 shepazu: The market/community should decide 01:36:05 ivan: If you need to do that, use the PROV-O b/c it is there 01:36:17 bigbluehat: I would agree that, if they are legitimate 01:36:56 ...So Social WG has does something .. like everything has an id.. inboxes go.. at various locatoins 01:37:22 ...but when it moves around, and you store the location 01:37:54 ...once the id is set, I don't want it changed 01:38:12 shepazu: How do you propose .. the only way to.. form the spec perspective, yo ushould not change the id, isn't a valid annotation 01:38:28 ivan: That's the point.. if it is a diff annotation, .. putting there derivedFrom makes sense 01:39:05 bigbluehat: We should say that.. when my annotation moves from a to b, it should have the same identifier 01:39:38 Ralph: ...iff they have the same id 01:39:47 timbl: What's the UC.. when does the software need ot know 01:40:21 shepazu: If X publishes to 3 diff annotation services, and I see in my sidebar seeing them.. and see all.. would be nice to see it only once.. having it collapse 01:40:46 ...If I'm authorized to comment to post 2 services she is ont.. and my comment to both 01:41:04 s/iff/you could specify that two annotations are the same annotation iff/ 01:41:34 shepazu: This is a product decision and not specifically w/ the data model 01:41:48 ... (Web Annotation data model spec) 01:42:22 azaroth: timbl considered rel=canonical 01:42:37 ...the client should assign uid 01:42:48 ivan: I am unclear about thsi last point 01:42:53 ...purely from an RDF POV 01:43:01 ...the annotation is a resource it has its own URI 01:43:12 ...why would I have to decide that it is a UUID? 01:43:15 timbl: No, you don't have to say that 01:43:29 ...the moment you make annotation.. and give its shiny URI 01:44:40 ivan: I'm not saying you should not use uuid 01:45:03 timbl: MUST have an HTTP URI 01:45:12 ... MAY have UUID 01:45:35 ... 01:45:47 azaroth: Logistically, we take a break b/c coffee overrules :) 02:02:43 clapierre has joined #annotation 02:06:09 azaroth has joined #annotation 02:08:58 tantek has joined #annotation 02:10:04 takeshi has joined #annotation 02:12:34 ivan has joined #annotation 02:14:37 kurosawa has joined #annotation 02:15:10 azaroth: Discussion around how to refer to Turtle... specifically on testing requirements 02:15:26 tzviya has joined #annotation 02:15:53 ...I propose 15min to talk about that.. 11:30-12:00 implementations/demos, afternoon .. about integration with Social.. around protocol 02:17:16 model: http://www.w3.org/TR/annotation-model/ 02:17:22 ivan: The way the model doc is done today is.. it defines the whole model.. and sort of has a duo phase 02:17:45 ...obviously for two difference audiences. 02:18:24 ...the proposal to cut it down into two. One URIs and RDF terms.. using same examples, and defacto standard way to show the vocab. 02:18:34 ...a second recommendation for the JSON(-LD) 02:18:45 ...and ns stuff will disappear from that 02:18:55 ...so for different audiences for an easier sell 02:19:22 ...if we have full testing for the JSON-LD manifestation, we are not required to have a separate testing for Turtle, beceause Turtle is not RDF, it is just a serialization, ditto for JSON-LD. 02:19:34 deiu has joined #annotation 02:20:18 ...so this simplifies our lives 02:20:29 ...I apologize for the editors b/c they have to create two docs 02:20:53 ...if at the end of a year, we have a relatively stable document, then syncing two docs should be easy.. maybe even with some tricks find common parts 02:21:01 ...e.g., repeating some text 02:21:08 ...this is roughly what we said this morning? 02:21:18 bigbluehat: Sounds about right 02:21:57 ...shepazu's argument may be that there is too much RDF which could scare people 02:22:04 ivan: I'm not sure if I understand shepazu 02:22:18 csarven: (shepazu is not currently in the room) 02:22:43 ivan: The idea is that the JSON-LD doc should stand by itself 02:22:51 bigbluehat: That might make him happier 02:23:03 from the IRC sidelines, I agree, so much RDF in that document either scares (or glazes over) most web devs 02:23:21 ivan: I can't judge whether the figures/graphs would scare anyone 02:23:44 Ira: I think bigbluehat 's point is good 02:24:05 bigbluehat: If we leave the JSOn-LD that would make most happy 02:24:22 ivan: The fact that the @context is there... 02:24:35 bigbluehat: I don't mind introducing people to JSON-LD e.g., here is what @context is ... 02:24:59 azaroth: My experience with JSON devs is that, they can handle it as long as you point them to it 02:25:10 optional vs required @context may be a good topic for the informal joint Annotation/SocialWeb WGs meeting this afternoon (has a time been set?) 02:25:13 bigbluehat: Google does this all the time e.g., inbox actions with schema.org 02:25:28 ...they'll copy/paste 02:25:34 ...whatever is needed 02:25:49 present+ tzviya_siegman 02:25:54 azaroth: What will we call the non-model thing.. annotations in JSON? 02:26:00 bigbluehat: At the top of the document basically? 02:26:07 azaroth: TR/slug 02:26:18 ...if you Google for it.. 02:26:22 bigbluehat: We have annotation-model 02:26:32 ...web-annotation doesn't equal annotation model 02:26:54 ivan: We have to change the shortname.. can we do that Ralph? 02:26:57 Ralph: yea 02:27:01 ...same document 02:27:14 timbl: Same document you can have two names ;P 02:27:23 azaroth: All good 02:27:45 ...now implementations/demos.. 02:27:56 ...csarven, bigbluehat , takeshi ... 10mins each? 02:28:54 present+ Andrei 02:29:02 csarven https://github.com/csarven/linked-research -- temp: https://csarven.databox.me/Public/dive-into-linked-research.html 02:34:27 timbl has joined #annotation 02:39:02 ack ralph 02:39:02 Ralph, you wanted to comment on a use case for embedded annotations 02:44:06 mmiyazaki has joined #annotation 02:53:59 dsinger has joined #annotation 03:00:36 azaroth has joined #annotation 03:02:59 tilgovi has joined #annotation 03:09:48 tzviya has joined #annotation 03:27:43 mmiyazaki has joined #annotation 03:48:59 erikmannens has joined #annotation 03:57:32 Ralph has joined #annotation 04:12:55 tzviya has joined #annotation 04:18:38 kurosawa has joined #annotation 04:19:25 clapierre has joined #annotation 04:28:04 azaroth has joined #annotation 04:28:28 takeshi has joined #annotation 04:28:29 ivan has joined #annotation 04:28:33 csarven has joined #annotation 04:30:44 tantek has joined #annotation 04:31:31 annbass has joined #annotation 04:33:25 Ralph has joined #annotation 04:34:37 npdoty has joined #annotation 04:44:07 kurosawa_ has joined #annotation 04:44:45 shevski has joined #annotation 04:48:34 dsinger has joined #annotation 04:51:32 Topic: Alignments to social web activities 04:52:15 present+ Tantek, Mark, Nick 04:52:38 scribenick: deiu 04:54:14 azaroth: the annotation WG deliverables has 3 parts 04:54:30 ...one of them is the protocol, which uses LDP 04:54:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 04:54:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/26-annotation-minutes.html ivan 04:54:52 ...discovery is important -- how does a client know where to send the annotations? 04:55:25 ...notifications is another thing we're interested in; it could be based on Activity Streams (AS2) 04:55:42 ...finally, search -- I haven't seen a lot of work so far 04:56:14 ...given a collection of annotations, how can I find the annotations I'm interested in without getting all the other annotations 04:56:25 ...the final deliverable is the FineText API 04:56:46 ...basically, find content that the user wants to annotate 04:56:53 s/FineText/FindText/ 04:57:21 tantek: as the only SocialWeb WG chair here, let me give you an overview of our work 04:57:32 ...1st thing is the AS2 04:57:52 ...2nd area is a social API, to allow clients to communicate with servers 04:58:00 ...3rd area is a federation protocol 04:59:04 ...the first area involving AS2 faces a big challenge; we're not going into a green field, since RSS and Atom are the defacto standards 04:59:22 ...also, none of the big social players (Facebook, Google, etc.) are participating in the WG 04:59:53 ...those companies are notorious for not cooperating (see. the latest fight between Twitter and Instagram) 05:00:25