IRC log of tt on 2015-10-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tt
14:01:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-irc
14:01:58 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:58 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tt
14:02:00 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TTML
14:02:00 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:02:01 [trackbot]
Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:02:01 [trackbot]
Date: 22 October 2015
14:02:42 [mike]
oh no, not again...
14:04:38 [dae]
dae has joined #tt
14:04:48 [dae]
present+ dae
14:05:53 [dae]
jumping on now
14:07:01 [dae]
The new meeting Philipe sent hasn't startwd yet?
14:09:24 [pal]
pal has joined #tt
14:10:00 [pal]
I assume I am not the only one that cannot join the webex?
14:11:32 [nigel]
The webex is scheduled 1 hour late. I'm going send a Lync invitation to member-tt. Hope that's okay with everyone. Plh hasn't responded but I want us to proceed...
14:13:16 [nigel]
https://meet.bbc.co.uk/nigel.megitt/QCCFSVH5
14:13:38 [nigel]
You can dial in too - find a local number at https://dialin.bbc.co.uk/
14:13:50 [nigel]
Conf ID is 45706816 if you need it.
14:14:07 [plh]
plh has joined #tt
14:14:09 [nigel]
You should be able to join from a browser directly.
14:14:21 [plh]
I just fixed the time :(
14:14:44 [nigel]
Sorry everyone, let's go back to plan A since plh has fixed it - I'm happier using W3C provided services here.
14:16:44 [nigel]
Present: nigel, plh, mike, dae, pal
14:16:52 [nigel]
chair: nigel
14:16:53 [nigel]
scribe: nigel
14:17:15 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
14:18:39 [nigel]
nigel: I plan to go through Actions, TPAC, IMSC. AOB?
14:19:15 [nigel]
mike: Yes, can we discuss (perhaps not urgently) some MPEG stuff relating to the profile registry etc.
14:19:40 [nigel]
Topic: Action Items
14:19:53 [nigel]
action-433?
14:19:53 [trackbot]
action-433 -- Thierry Michel to Update cvs hosted landing page to simplify and highlight link into wiki page -- due 2015-10-22 -- OPEN
14:19:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/433
14:20:11 [nigel]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/
14:20:57 [nigel]
nigel: It points now to the wiki https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText which I'll try to polish up
14:21:05 [nigel]
... to include the important stuff, and to improve the styling.
14:21:46 [nigel]
... Any ideas for better styling appreciated - I did like https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar as an example.
14:21:58 [nigel]
close action-433
14:21:58 [trackbot]
Closed action-433.
14:22:05 [nigel]
action-436?
14:22:05 [trackbot]
action-436 -- Thierry Michel to Send mdolan an empty respec based note as a starting point for action-429 -- due 2015-10-22 -- OPEN
14:22:05 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/436
14:22:23 [nigel]
nigel: Thierry sent this?
14:22:26 [nigel]
mike: He did. Thank you.
14:22:30 [nigel]
close action-436
14:22:30 [trackbot]
Closed action-436.
14:22:33 [nigel]
action-421?
14:22:33 [trackbot]
action-421 -- Nigel Megitt to Check with ttml player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. -- due 2015-09-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:22:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/421
14:23:15 [nigel]
nigel: I got confirmation and the implementation is now listed at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/EffortsAndSpecifications#Implementations
14:24:06 [nigel]
close action-421
14:24:06 [trackbot]
Closed action-421.
14:24:10 [nigel]
action-434?
14:24:10 [trackbot]
action-434 -- Mike Dolan to Draft outgoing liaison to atsc proposing to reference an updated wd of ttml2 -- due 2015-10-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:24:10 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/434
14:24:23 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks Mike for drafting this - it was sent on Monday.
14:24:27 [nigel]
close action-434
14:24:27 [trackbot]
Closed action-434.
14:25:15 [nigel]
mike: That was really timely - we're looking to adopt the advice and looking forward to the revision to TTML2.
14:25:37 [nigel]
Topic: TPAC 2015
14:25:55 [nigel]
nigel: Our wiki page is at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2015
14:27:05 [nigel]
dae: David Ronca cannot make TPAC after all, so can we push the TTML2 implementation item to a regular meeting after TPAC?
14:27:14 [nigel]
nigel: Okay, yes. Thanks for the information.
14:27:35 [nigel]
nigel: Can you talk about it in David's place?
14:27:43 [plh]
q+
14:27:50 [nigel]
dae: I can talk it a bit but David really wants to show it when he can.
14:27:52 [nigel]
ack
14:27:56 [nigel]
zakim, ack
14:27:56 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ack', nigel
14:28:04 [nigel]
s/ack/
14:28:17 [nigel]
plh: Courtney and Glenn have registered for TPAC so I think we can expect them.
14:28:39 [plh]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2015/registrants#timed
14:28:53 [plh]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/LateTPAC2015/registrants#timed
14:29:22 [nigel]
nigel: Great. Staff aren't on this list but we have 8 people.
14:29:35 [nigel]
plh: I'm going to be really busy on Monday and Tuesday but only have 2 groups running in
14:29:47 [nigel]
... parallel on Thursday and Friday so I should be available at least half the time.
14:30:07 [nigel]
nigel: Great. That gives us a bit more flexibility in terms of the charter discussion.
14:30:15 [nigel]
plh: If you avoid Friday afternoon then we should be fine.
14:30:42 [nigel]
nigel: In that case can I propose that we talk about the charter on Friday morning?
14:30:45 [nigel]
plh: sounds good to me.
14:34:38 [nigel]
pal: Can I request that we don't do IMSC on Friday afternoon, as I'll have to leave promptly.
14:35:13 [nigel]
nigel: Are there any other requests for slots to target or avoid?
14:36:31 [nigel]
nigel: Okay, seems like there aren't. In that case I'll try to schedule everything to accommodate.
14:37:32 [nigel]
pal: Can we do IMSC first thing on Friday, then take an hour before lunch on Friday?
14:37:35 [nigel]
nigel: Yes I think we can.
14:37:50 [nigel]
plh: We have until the end of March under the current charter so we can continue the discussions after TPAC.
14:37:54 [nigel]
nigel: Yes, we can!
14:38:18 [nigel]
nigel: So it looks like Thursday am: TTML2, Thursday pm: TTML <--> WebVTT mapping,
14:38:58 [nigel]
... Friday am: IMSC and Charter+tools, Friday pm: IMSC continued plus other stuff.
14:39:21 [nigel]
plh: I think pal wants to be there for the tools discussion. I think we can do Charter and tools
14:39:33 [nigel]
... in the same hour. We also need Glenn there for that.
14:39:52 [nigel]
pal: Hopefully we can keep the discussions strictly to how we move the tracker tickets rather than
14:39:56 [nigel]
... on whether or not to do it.
14:40:45 [nigel]
nigel: The null proposal would be to keep tracker going but raise any new tickets on github.
14:41:19 [nigel]
pal: We can also create new tickets on github referencing the tracker issues.
14:41:32 [nigel]
plh: We can at some point copy all the open issues in tracker to github and continue the discussion there.
14:42:20 [nigel]
nigel: In the past I've used github issues as actions by tagging them.
14:42:33 [nigel]
nigel: It's not perfect but it does allow filtering.
14:42:57 [nigel]
nigel: Great, we have a rough schedule which I'll add to the wiki.
14:43:07 [nigel]
action-435?
14:43:07 [trackbot]
action-435 -- Nigel Megitt to Add tools to tpac agenda -- due 2015-10-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:43:07 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/435
14:43:13 [nigel]
close action-435
14:43:13 [trackbot]
Closed action-435.
14:44:04 [nigel]
Topic: Profiles Registry
14:44:52 [nigel]
Mike: I was in a discussion this morning about ISOBMFF carriage of text, both WebVTT and TTML.
14:45:14 [nigel]
... The issue is how to signal the codecs parameter in DASH. There are a range of things in
14:45:27 [nigel]
... practice today including using stpp as the codecs value. The desire is to use it as a hierarchical
14:45:40 [nigel]
... string. In TTML it would look like stpp.ttml.[short name from the registry]
14:45:51 [nigel]
... Everyone thought that was a good idea so that's going to go forward.
14:46:11 [nigel]
... It shed some light on what W3C may or may not want to do.
14:46:27 [nigel]
... It implies packaging in an ISOBMFF single track file. There are cases where TTML files are
14:46:37 [nigel]
... being used natively without being wrapped.
14:47:03 [nigel]
... The media type in ISOBMFF is application/mp4. For native use it is application/ttml+xml as
14:47:15 [nigel]
... defined in the IANA registration. We also defined a parameter called profile that allows a
14:47:43 [nigel]
... fully qualified URI of the profile designator, i.e. what's in the spec. That's fine and stands
14:48:06 [nigel]
... alone. When you're using a standalone file it is unambiguous. If packaged in an MP4 file
14:48:14 [nigel]
... then the 4 character codes come into play.
14:48:28 [nigel]
... The plan is to revise the IANA registration and add a new parameter called codecs. That's
14:48:38 [nigel]
... fine but its only for when a standalone file is used.
14:48:57 [nigel]
... The question is do we still want to do that, where codecs is a replication of a parameter we
14:49:01 [nigel]
... already have defined.
14:50:34 [nigel]
nigel: I think the standalone file with profile attribute is actually ambiguous - it's useful to
14:50:47 [nigel]
... express how multiple processor profiles can be used to process the document.
14:51:03 [nigel]
mike: Okay, so the combinatorial syntax is still useful.
14:51:05 [nigel]
nigel: Yes.
14:52:10 [nigel]
mike: Then we should add to our Note that for DASH and MP4/ISOBMFF see ISO/IEC 14496-30.
14:53:51 [nigel]
mike: 14496-12 didn't distinguish TTML from any other form of XML based timed text. By adding "ttml."
14:54:14 [nigel]
... to the stpp type then we make that distinction. The WebVTT type is unchanged.
14:55:33 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC stuff
14:55:54 [nigel]
action-432?
14:55:54 [trackbot]
action-432 -- Nigel Megitt to Nigel, pal, andreas and frans to hook up re changing imsc 1 ebu-tt feature references to point to tech3350 v1.1 -- due 2015-10-15 -- OPEN
14:55:54 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/432
14:56:11 [nigel]
nigel: We've been discussing this but haven't reached a solid conclusion.
14:56:40 [nigel]
pal: I'm waiting to hear back from some folk before I push a new set of edits.
14:58:25 [nigel]
action-425?
14:58:25 [trackbot]
action-425 -- Thierry Michel to Send a prompt/thank you to the potential test result contributors for imsc. -- due 2015-10-01 -- OPEN
14:58:25 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/425
14:58:52 [nigel]
pal: We've received another report that Thierry hasn't posted yet.
14:59:07 [nigel]
nigel: They asked to be anonymous, but we can still post it.
14:59:28 [nigel]
issue-418?
14:59:28 [trackbot]
issue-418 -- semantics of ttp:aspectRatio is ambiguous -- pending review
14:59:28 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/418
14:59:45 [nigel]
nigel: Given the time let's get to this next week.
15:00:53 [plh]
plh has left #tt
15:00:57 [nigel]
nigel: Apologies for the shorter meeting this week - we're out of time so I'll adjourn this meeting now, but in the meantime good travelling to everyone who is travelling, and see you next week.
15:01:02 [nigel]
nigel: [adjourns meeting]
15:01:52 [nigel]
s/Mike: I was in a discussion this morning about ISOBMFF carriage of text, both WebVTT and TTML./
15:01:59 [nigel]
s/... The issue is how to signal the codecs parameter in DASH. There are a range of things in/
15:02:06 [nigel]
s/... practice today including using stpp as the codecs value. The desire is to use it as a hierarchical/
15:02:17 [nigel]
s/... string. In TTML it would look like stpp.ttml.[short name from the registry]/
15:02:25 [nigel]
s/... Everyone thought that was a good idea so that's going to go forward./
15:02:32 [nigel]
s/... It shed some light on what W3C may or may not want to do./
15:02:39 [nigel]
s/... It implies packaging in an ISOBMFF single track file. There are cases where TTML files are/
15:02:46 [nigel]
s/... being used natively without being wrapped./
15:03:06 [nigel]
s|... The media type in ISOBMFF is application/mp4. For native use it is application/ttml+xml as|
15:03:16 [nigel]
s|... defined in the IANA registration. We also defined a parameter called profile that allows a|
15:03:23 [nigel]
s|... fully qualified URI of the profile designator, i.e. what's in the spec. That's fine and stands|
15:03:30 [nigel]
s|... alone. When you're using a standalone file it is unambiguous. If packaged in an MP4 file|
15:03:43 [nigel]
s|... then the 4 character codes come into play.|
15:04:35 [nigel]
s/... The plan is to revise the IANA/Mike: The plan is to revise the IANA
15:05:29 [nigel]
s|mike: Then we should add to our Note that for DASH and MP4/ISOBMFF see ISO/IEC 14496-30.|mike: Then we should make sure our Note references the right external documents.
15:05:41 [nigel]
s|mike: 14496-12 didn't distinguish TTML from any other form of XML based timed text. By adding "ttml."|
15:05:50 [nigel]
s|... to the stpp type then we make that distinction. The WebVTT type is unchanged.|
15:06:00 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:07:25 [nigel]
Regrets: andreas, frans
15:07:49 [nigel]
s/oh no, not again.../
15:07:56 [nigel]
s/jumping on now/
15:09:05 [nigel]
s/The new meeting Philipe sent hasn't startwd yet?/
15:09:14 [nigel]
s/I assume I am not the only one that cannot join the webex?/
15:09:30 [nigel]
s|https://meet.bbc.co.uk/nigel.megitt/QCCFSVH5|
15:09:40 [nigel]
s|You can dial in too - find a local number at https://dialin.bbc.co.uk/|
15:09:47 [nigel]
s|Conf ID is 45706816 if you need it.|
15:09:54 [nigel]
s|You should be able to join from a browser directly.|
15:11:26 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:11:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:12:42 [nigel]
s/ack/
15:12:44 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:12:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:12:59 [nigel]
s/I can talk it a bit/I can talk about it a bit
15:13:14 [nigel]
s/when he can/when he can, with some slides he has prepared
15:14:02 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:14:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:19:07 [nigel]
s|http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/trer/issues/418|http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/418
15:19:46 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:19:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:20:59 [nigel]
ScribeOptions: -noEmbedDiagnostics -final
15:21:02 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:21:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:02:21 [nigel]
s/Then we should make sure our Note references the right external documents./
16:02:24 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:02:56 [nigel]
s/mike:/
16:02:57 [nigel]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/22-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:32:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #tt