13:02:39 RRSAgent has joined #wot-ap 13:02:39 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-irc 13:02:41 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:02:41 Zakim has joined #wot-ap 13:02:43 Zakim, this will be 13:02:43 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:02:44 Meeting: Web of Things Interest Group Teleconference 13:02:44 Date: 21 October 2015 13:03:29 dsr has joined #wot-ap 13:04:53 kaz_ has joined #wot-ap 13:05:01 michael has joined #wot-ap 13:05:10 Webex: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=ma8aa4594b4fc8a5d7728eb2a586917ce 13:05:59 scribenick: dsr 13:06:02 Claes has joined #wot-ap 13:06:23 meeting: APIs and Protocols Task Force 13:06:26 Darko_Anicic has joined #wot-ap 13:06:39 chair: Johannes 13:07:27 Present+ Kaz 13:07:35 rrsagent, make log public 13:07:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:07:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_ 13:07:44 Present+ Claes_Nilsson 13:08:11 zakim, who is here? 13:08:11 Present: Kaz, Claes_Nilsson 13:08:13 On IRC I see Darko_Anicic, Claes, michael, kaz_, dsr, Zakim, RRSAgent, jhund, k_nimura, Sebastian, dape, taki, kudo, tidoust, kotakagi, Yingying, naokis, stakagi, tobie, schuki, 13:08:13 ... trackbot 13:08:32 Present+ Johannes_Hund 13:09:02 Present: Daniel, Ari, Dave, Claes, Kaz, Kazuaki, Kotakagi, Naokis, Noriatsu, Sebastian, Takuki, Yingying 13:09:29 Joahannes introduces the meeting. 13:10:08 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/0072.html 13:10:20 any other topics for today? 13:10:20 Present+ Daniel_Peintner 13:11:16 Kaz asks Johannes to discuss the Yokohama T2TRG (IRTF) meeting. 13:11:48 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting_29-30_October_2015,_Sapporo,_Japan#Joint_IRTF_T2T_RG_and_W3C_WoT_IG_meeting_in_Yokohama_on_31st_Oct._.2F1st_Nov. IRTF joint meeting 13:11:53 Johannes: this would follow on from the previous WoT IG/T2TRG meeting in Prague 13:12:59 This meeting will take place in Room 304, InterContinental Yokohama Grand, 1-1 Minatomirai Nishi-Ku 13:12:59 Yokohama, Japan 200-8522 13:13:36 As the IETF groups are already active over the weekend it seems pragmatic to co locate the meeting in Yokohama. We are going to start early on Saturday 2015-10-31 (09:00) and end officially on Sunday 2015-11-01 at 16:00. 13:15:24 rrsagent, draft mintues 13:15:24 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft mintues', kaz_. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:15:33 Kaz: do we to register and pay for the IETF? 13:15:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:15:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_ 13:15:50 Johannes: no, the IRTF meetings are free. 13:16:04 rrsagent, set logs public 13:16:14 present+ Johannes, Darko, Michael, Stakagi 13:16:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:16:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_ 13:16:18 Topic: TPAC preparation 13:17:04 We should plan for the 3 hour break-out and gather suggestions in the wiki. 13:17:48 i/introduces the meeting/topic: Preliminaries/ 13:17:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:17:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_ 13:18:27 s/the IRTF meetings are/this IRTF joint meeting is/ 13:18:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:18:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz_ 13:18:53 Johannes: we have an in depth discussion on modelling during the last face to face. This time I would like to spend some time on scripting APIs 13:19:51 Dave supports the idea of a discussion on scripting 13:20:02 i|We should plan|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting_29-30_October_2015,_Sapporo,_Japan#Agenda TPAC agenda| 13:20:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:20:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz 13:21:09 Claes: maybe we could discuss bi-directional communication, keep-alive, firewalls and so forth. 13:21:53 Daniel: we should also try to set some milestones for the task force 13:22:38 Johannes: yes this can be part of the goal setting and what kind of outcome we are looking for 13:24:41 Daniel: maybe we should look at what people have been implementing and discuss what would be needed for convergence? 13:25:06 Dave: we should look at messaging over protocols, e.g. web sockets, and MQTT where REST doesn’t really apply. 13:25:45 Dave: we should clarify what the benefits of REST are for the WoT 13:26:51 Dave: let’s not forget MQTT and XMPP, etc. when it comes to messaging. 13:27:41 Johannes: for XMPP you could layer REST on top of it or instead use a native messaging scheme 13:28:34 Ari: in the IETF there is work on pub-sup with CoAP that we should be aware of 13:28:55 Ari: Michael and I are co-authors of the corresponding Internet Draft 13:29:28 Michael: an assessement of REST will feature strongly in the T2TRG meeting 13:30:29 We should discuss how things fit together, rather than is something REST or not 13:30:52 s/assessement/assessment/ 13:32:35 Ari: We could spend time on RESTful design for IoT, based upon my email yesterday, see: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/0066.html 13:32:46 Claes would like to hear more on that 13:33:40 Johannes: I will gather ideas from today’s minutes for the TPAC agenda 13:36:22 Johannes asks for input for the status report for the plenary session. 13:37:05 Dave asks if we should note that we’re considering discussion of APIs for low level system interfaces, e.g. GPIO, I2C, SPI, etc. 13:37:26 Johannes: yes I can mention that 13:40:53 Johannes: I am looking for volunteers to help to fill out the landscape of what has been done either in companies or other standards organisations. 13:41:56 Dave: I agree, and am reaching out to the Allseen alliance as an example. 13:42:29 Michael: I can help with the OMA and IPSO Alliance. Do we have a table in the wiki we can fill out? 13:44:31 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/APIs_and_Protocols_TF#Technology_Landscape tech landscape wiki 13:45:19 Johannes: we need to agree on a set of criteria before we can create the table 13:45:37 https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Discovery_Solutions_Iot_Consortia 13:45:45 Michael: if we can add columns that would help 13:46:17 i|https|-> https| 13:46:24 s|https|-> https| 13:46:51 s|Consortia|Consortia Discovery Solutions IoT Consortia| 13:46:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:46:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz 13:49:31 Dave: we could ask for contrbutions of implementation work by companies in the WoT IG, e.g. RWE and their LemonBeat work. 13:49:56 Kaz: the Chirimen work too 13:50:54 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/thread.html#msg35 Mozilla work discussion 13:50:56 Johannes: is anyone familiar with the AIOTI? 13:51:18 Dave: yes for WG3 standardisation 13:52:34 Dave: we should look at research projects, e.g. IoT-A, see http://www.iot-a.eu/public/public-documents 13:54:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:54:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz 13:55:25 Dave: once we have a preliminary document we can reach out to external industry alliances and SDO’s, e.g. the IIC 13:56:08 Action: Johannes to prepare an initial table in the wiki for the AP TF 13:56:09 Created ACTION-13 - Prepare an initial table in the wiki for the ap tf [on Johannes Hund - due 2015-10-28]. 13:57:22 Topic: Resuming discussion on low level APIs and role of browsers 13:57:38 This follows on from the email thread on the list 13:58:18 See: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Oct/0035.html 14:00:23 joerg has joined #wot-ap 14:00:42 present+ Joerg 14:00:56 Our API is from browser scripts to hardware capabilities like GPIO etc. 14:01:33 see https://github.com/browserobo/WebGPIO and https://github.com/browserobo/WebI2C 14:03:47 We will provide an explanation during TPAC in the breakout session. 14:04:13 s/Our API/kotakagi: Our API/ 14:04:22 s/We will/kotakagi: We will/ 14:04:25 Although a headless browser is also considered, browsers with a screen are many cases. 14:04:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:04:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz 14:04:36 Johannes: most people think of browsers as huge programs, but for Chirimen is more about headless browser which is much smaller, right? 14:05:34 Does the browser have something like a web server? 14:06:13 [ no answer - audio problems?] 14:06:42 [ guess at least the Chirimen board has server capability as well ] 14:06:43 It is a client basically. 14:08:49 CHIRIMEN are a browser and a client basically. 14:08:51 Dave: we should survey how different platforms have address the common low level capabilities 14:10:02 Johannes: we need some way to structure the analysis - what things are done in a common way, and where things vary across platforms 14:10:28 However, since examination of the push function is going, a modern browser may play a role as a server. 14:11:48 Dave: we should gather the set of the low level capabilities, some are very common, some are specific to families of chipsets 14:12:07 s/chipsets/chip sets/ 14:13:04 Johannes: we could start with a list of run-times and SDKs 14:14:42 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KykR4eNVB6w 14:15:02 this is one of chirimen's usecase 14:15:27 Michael: the browser software is essentially a scripting engine and set of APIs. There must be a connection to a server to load the software. Can we come up with a thing description language that fits well with HTML 14:17:28 This relates to HATEOAS ... 14:18:39 Johannes: what is the benefit over say JSON? 14:18:56 Michael: markup provides a DOM 14:19:56 These are just different metadata formats that clients could support 14:20:55 Johannes: browser have access to JSON and JavaScript, but not to CoAP and its link headers 14:21:58 Yingying_ has joined #wot-ap 14:23:39 Dave: other groups may be interested in different serialisations of metadata as RDF, e.g. XML & EXI, Turtle and N3, and so forth. 14:24:06 Sebastian: yes if the underlying RDF is the same that would be feasible 14:25:26 s/Sebastian/dape 14:26:35 Michael: if you stick with the web linking approach, this is applicable to most linked data 14:27:27 JSON-LD allows you to separate the RDF node URIs so that you can use simple name/value pairs 14:28:57 Dave: we will need to ensure that what we do is appealing to regular web developers who tend to have an alergic reaction to the overheads in RDF and XML namespaces 14:30:37 Johannes: we need to collect the ideas we’ve discussed at enter it into the landscape wiki, any volunteers? 14:30:44 Michael offers to help 14:31:07 Sorry. My audio environment is not good. Please let me explain WebGPIO/I2C at breakout session or WoT IG F2F. And we have a plan to show you CHIRIMEN on Wednesday. 14:31:17 Johannes: any other business 14:32:03 … end of meeting and safe travels … 14:32:13 Bye, 14:32:21 thanks. bye 14:32:28 rrsagent, make minutes 14:32:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/21-wot-ap-minutes.html dsr 15:21:25 taki has left #wot-ap 16:41:03 Zakim has left #wot-ap