IRC log of aapi on 2015-10-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:53:22 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/20-aapi-irc

18:53:24 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

18:53:24 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #aapi

18:53:26 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_PF

18:53:26 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

18:53:27 [trackbot]

Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

18:53:27 [trackbot]

Date: 20 October 2015

18:53:37 [clown]

chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer

18:54:19 [clown]

agenda: this

18:54:28 [clown]

agenda+ Check that all new ARIA 1.1 spec have actions.

18:54:36 [clown]

agenda+ Add interfaces where appropriate, e.g. IAccessibleText

18:55:28 [clown]

agenda+ Action/issue triage for ARIA 1.1 (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA)

18:55:40 [clown]

agenda+ be done

18:59:39 [richardschwerdtfeger]

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19:00:36 [clown]

present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer

19:01:08 [joanie]

I am, though busy

19:01:12 [joanie]

but I'm here

19:01:16 [joanie]

sorry, guess I should call in

19:01:28 [joanie]

give me a few minutes

19:04:19 [richardschwerdtfeger]

present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger

19:04:27 [joanie]

present+ Joanmarie_Diggs

19:05:26 [bgaraventa1979]

bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi

19:05:45 [bgaraventa1979]

present+ Bryan_Garaventa

19:06:50 [joanie]

scribe: joanie

19:07:47 [joanie]

Zakim, take up item 1

19:07:47 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Check that all new ARIA 1.1 spec have actions." taken up [from clown]

19:08:09 [joanie]

JS: The main purpose of this meeting is to start getting ready for ARIA 1.1.

19:08:23 [joanie]

JS: In particular getting the mapping spec and name computation spec ready for CR.

19:08:49 [joanie]

JS: My concern is that there might be some items that fell through the cracks and are in the ARIA spec, but not the mapping spec.

19:09:02 [joanie]

JS: So I want to put that on people's radar.

19:09:25 [joanie]

RS: Michael is supposed to identify testing criteria and write the testable statements.

19:09:28 [joanie]

JS: That will work.

19:11:12 [joanie]

Zakim, take up item 2

19:11:12 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Add interfaces where appropriate, e.g. IAccessibleText" taken up [from clown]

19:11:24 [joanie]

JS: This came up in an email last week about role="text".

19:11:33 [joanie]

JS: The mapping spec just says to give it a role.

19:11:47 [joanie]

JS: Rich asked if it should also implement the accessible text interface.

19:12:01 [joanie]

JS: I looked at the HTML spec and noticed it indicates interfaces that should be implemented.

19:12:11 [joanie]

JS: Our mapping spec doesn't make this indiciation. Should it?

19:12:29 [clown]

http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-figure

19:12:54 [joanie]

JS: For example, in the HTML mapping spec (link above), if you look at their entries, they have a role, object attributes, name:, and relations.

19:13:13 [joanie]

JS: We don't generally go into that detail; we identify the role for mapping.

19:13:18 [clown]

http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-grid

19:13:28 [joanie]

RS: We indicate the table interface for table/grid.

19:13:34 [joanie]

JS: Confirmed.

19:13:44 [joanie]

RS: I don't think we need to get into fine granularity.

19:14:00 [joanie]

RS: I think we have to implement the accessible text interface.

19:14:03 [joanie]

JS: For grid??

19:14:29 [joanie]

RS: For IA2, for instance, you can get a given header for a specified cell.

19:14:45 [clown]

http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-grid

19:16:06 [joanie]

JS: Does ATK have a table interface, and should it be implemented for grid?

19:16:22 [joanie]

JD: Yes.

19:16:42 [joanie]

JD: For what it's worth, in practice implementors already do that for my platform.

19:16:50 [joanie]

JD: But it should be added to our mapping spec.

19:17:13 [joanie]

RS + JS: (notes that the new table role is not listed in our spec)

19:17:21 [joanie]

JS: Volunteers?

19:17:49 [joanie]

RS: I could do it after TPAC.

19:18:12 [joanie]

RS: It should pretty much be what we have for grid.

19:19:03 [joanie]

JS: Did we also add new roles for row?

19:19:06 [clown]

action: Rich to determine mappings for ARIA 1.1 table and cell role for all AAPI platforms.

19:19:06 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1737 - Determine mappings for aria 1.1 table and cell role for all aapi platforms. [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-10-27].

19:19:10 [joanie]

JD: No. But we did for cell.

19:19:13 [clown]

action-1737

19:19:13 [trackbot]

action-1737 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Determine mappings for aria 1.1 table and cell role for all aapi platforms. -- due 2015-10-27 -- OPEN

19:19:13 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1737

19:19:33 [joanie]

JD: There was some discussion about possibly deprecating gridcell, but nothing has been done in that regard yet.

19:24:09 [clown]

action-1737

19:24:09 [trackbot]

action-1737 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Determine mappings for ARUA 1.1 table and cell role for all AAPI platforms. -- due 2015-11-13 -- OPEN

19:24:09 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1737

19:30:26 [joanie]

present+ Cynthia_Shelly

19:30:49 [cyns]

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19:31:15 [joanie]

Group: (Does mapping for table and cell roles during the meeting)

19:35:42 [cyns]

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ee671624(v=vs.85).aspx

19:36:27 [richardschwerdtfeger]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1737

19:38:14 [joanie]

Zakim, take up next item

19:38:14 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Check that all new ARIA 1.1 spec have actions." taken up [from clown]

19:38:25 [joanie]

Zakim, take up item 3

19:38:25 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "agenda+ Action/issue triage for ARIA 1.1 (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23,

19:38:27 [Zakim]

... https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA, https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA,

19:38:27 [Zakim]

... https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26)" taken up

19:39:02 [joanie]

JS: The process today is to say if we can do items in the 1.1 timeframe or need to punt it to 2.0.

19:39:03 [clown]

action-842?

19:39:03 [trackbot]

action-842 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree -- due 2015-09-30 -- OPEN

19:39:03 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842

19:39:14 [joanie]

JS: The first one is Cynthia's (action-842).

19:39:30 [joanie]

CS: This will not happen in the 1.1 timeframe.

19:39:59 [joanie]

JS: Do we want to kill this entirely?

19:40:18 [joanie]

Group: Let's close this action.

19:40:38 [joanie]

RESOLUTION: Close action-842.

19:41:18 [clown]

action-1104

19:41:18 [trackbot]

action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2015-09-15 -- OPEN

19:41:19 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104

19:41:32 [joanie]

JS: Action-1104 is also Cynthia's.

19:42:52 [joanie]

CS: Give me three months, until January 1st.

19:43:00 [joanie]

JS: Does that fit in the ARIA 1.1 time frame?

19:43:13 [joanie]

RS: We want to go into CR during the first quarter as I understand it.

19:44:05 [joanie]

RS: It doesn't have to be done by January 1st; it needs to be in the spec by January 1st. However, before then would be better. We need to lock things down.

19:44:15 [joanie]

CS: I will try to do it earlier.

19:45:01 [clown]

action-1309

19:45:01 [trackbot]

action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for UIA. -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN

19:45:01 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309

19:45:12 [joanie]

JS: This one is also Cynthia's.

19:45:27 [joanie]

CS: I haven't done it yet. But it can be done in the ARIA 1.1. timeframe.

19:45:38 [joanie]

CS: December 1st.

19:45:55 [clown]

action-1373

19:45:55 [trackbot]

action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-09-15 -- OPEN

19:45:55 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373

19:46:10 [joanie]

JS: Cynthia?

19:46:17 [joanie]

CS: Also December 1st.

19:46:30 [joanie]

JS: It's a test case so you might want to sync up with Michael Cooper.

19:47:04 [clown]

action-1409

19:47:04 [trackbot]

action-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2015-10-27 -- OPEN

19:47:04 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1409

19:47:30 [joanie]

JD: I haven't had time to add new API to ATK yet.

19:47:35 [joanie]

JD: I still plan to.

19:47:51 [clown]

scribenick: clonw

19:48:01 [clown]

scribenick: clown

19:48:10 [clown]

JD: Let's move it to aria 2.0

19:48:20 [clown]

JD: But it's not blocking, it simply doesn't change anything

19:48:29 [clown]

JD: There is a mapping through the object attributes.

19:49:54 [joanie]

scribe: joanie

19:50:16 [clown]

action-1527

19:50:16 [trackbot]

action-1527 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the proper uia mappings for aria-current -- due 2015-10-01 -- OPEN

19:50:16 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1527

19:50:26 [joanie]

JS: Cynthia, this one is yours.

19:50:37 [joanie]

CS: Is aria-current still current?

19:50:42 [joanie]

JS: It's still there.

19:51:07 [clown]

http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent

19:51:30 [joanie]

JD: If memory serves me, James Craig raised some concerns. Have those been resolved?

19:51:56 [joanie]

(Group is not sure. It was raised on list but not at a meeting. Therefore, we need to go back and look.)

19:52:25 [joanie]

JS: We have a mapping for ATK. I don't know if a test will pass, but it is mapped.

19:52:46 [clown]

action-1527

19:52:46 [trackbot]

action-1527 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the proper uia mappings for aria-current -- due 2015-10-01 -- OPEN

19:52:46 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1527

19:52:55 [joanie]

JS: Cynthia, could you update the action since you have an idea about the mapping for your platform?

19:53:14 [joanie]

CS: Is core-aam normative? Can I change it?

19:53:37 [joanie]

JS: As long as it's a working draft, you can change it.

19:54:13 [joanie]

CS: For now the mapping will be in aria-properties. But we may wish to improve the situation down the road.

19:54:26 [joanie]

JS: To me, that change would be for 2.0.

19:54:55 [joanie]

CS: It wouldn't make the existing mapping wrong, but there'd be another (better) place for implementors.

19:55:08 [joanie]

RS: We could probably update the spec for something like that.

19:58:37 [joanie]

JD: Based on my experience (1.0 hit CR before Igalia was a W3C member), I pointed out a number of things that were incorrect in the 1.0 mapping spec. I was told that the changes which would make things correct were substantial and would have to be postponed to 1.1. Thus I think we would have to roll a 1.2 release of the mapping spec to make any changes.

19:58:52 [joanie]

JD: I think rolling such a release would be easy and worth doing.

19:59:51 [joanie]

JS: So do we want to put it in aria-properties for now?

20:00:07 [clown]

action-1527

20:00:07 [trackbot]

action-1527 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the proper uia mappings for aria-current -- due 2015-10-01 -- OPEN

20:00:07 [trackbot]

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1527

20:01:00 [clown]

scribenick: clown

20:01:17 [clown]

CS: I've put a note in the action to use AriaProperties for now.

20:01:40 [clown]

JS: Assign the action to me now.

20:01:55 [clown]

JS: You have given me the information, and I can now do the edits.

20:02:12 [clown]

JS: And, that will be it for this meeting.

20:02:29 [clown]

JS: Have a good meeting at TPAC next week, everyone (who is going).

20:03:40 [joanie]

scribe: joanie

20:03:55 [joanie]

Zakim, part

20:03:55 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly

20:03:55 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #aapi

20:04:06 [joanie]

scribeOptions: -final

20:04:14 [joanie]

RRSAgent, stop

20:07:12 [joanie]

s/I am, though busy//

20:07:22 [joanie]

s/but I'm here//

20:07:30 [joanie]

s/sorry, guess I should call in//

20:07:41 [joanie]

s/give me a few minutes//

20:07:47 [joanie]

RRSAgent, make minutes

20:07:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/20-aapi-minutes.html joanie

20:08:09 [joanie]

RRSAgent, stop