13:59:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:59:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/15-tt-irc
13:59:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
13:59:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:59:26 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:59:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:59:28 <trackbot> Date: 15 October 2015
14:01:41 <dakim> dakim has joined #tt
14:01:54 <mike> mike has joined #tt
14:01:59 <dakim> present+ dakim
14:02:26 <dakim> present+dakim
14:04:42 <nigel> Present+ mike, nigel
14:04:46 <nigel> s/present+dakim
14:04:50 <nigel> s/present+dakim/
14:05:51 <nigel> Present+ tmichel
14:06:12 <nigel> Regrets: andreas
14:06:50 <nigel> nigel: Welcome to dakim, whose first meeting this is as a member.
14:06:55 <nigel> dakim: Thank you
14:07:08 <nigel> Topic: This meeting
14:07:10 <nigel> chair: nigel
14:07:12 <nigel> scribe: nigel
14:08:36 <nigel> nigel: Goes through meeting - plans to discuss ATSC liaison, IMSC 1 issues, actions, TPAC agenda and timeslots.
14:08:43 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:08:47 <nigel> nigel: Is there any other business?
14:09:53 <nigel> group: No AOB
14:10:25 <mike> my webex port was just terminated
14:10:34 <dakim> same
14:10:42 <tmichel> yes I also lost webex !
14:12:01 <tmichel> yes it does says meeting canceed !
14:13:44 <tmichel> no I don't have the credentials to start it or a new one
14:14:02 <dakim> i can try to book an audio bridge for everyone to call into
14:14:37 <nigel> nigel: hold on for a moment, I also can do that but I think Thierry might be on the case...
14:15:48 <plh> plh has joined #tt
14:16:10 <tmichel> Yes I am currently discussing with PlH, maybe he has the credentials
14:16:22 <plh> ok, I can book webex
14:16:35 <plh> give me a minute
14:16:42 <tmichel> thanks, MIT does not accept my credential ...
14:18:10 <dae> dae has joined #tt
14:18:16 <dae> present+dae
14:18:24 <plh> 312 343 368
14:18:37 <plh>  password: caption
14:18:51 <plh> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m231f833db1e0d4bde2ac19d0260c66f2
14:19:10 <nigel> says you need to start it...
14:19:19 <pal> present +pal
14:20:18 <plh> done
14:20:31 <nigel> thanks
14:22:00 <nigel> okay that looks like it's up and running - just waiting for everyone to call back in...
14:22:28 <nigel> pal: No other business from me either.
14:24:36 <nigel> tmichel: Should we use this new webex next week or the usual one?
14:24:44 <nigel> nigel: I don't know - can I bounce that back to you to investigate?
14:26:22 <nigel> Topic: Action Items
14:26:25 <nigel> action-430?
14:26:25 <trackbot> action-430 -- Thierry Michel to Look into merging the group home page and the wiki home page and propose something -- due 2015-10-15 -- OPEN
14:26:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/430
14:27:05 <nigel> tmichel: I started to look at this and I think the proposal I will send is to keep the current home
14:27:20 <nigel> ... page as a landing page because each working group has that kind of landing page. Then
14:27:34 <nigel> ... I will highlight that most of the information is on the wiki and include a link.
14:28:04 <nigel> nigel: Other people seem to have a better home page. Are we stuck with CVS?
14:28:18 <nigel> tmichel: Yes the home page is under CVS. I propose to keep links to the charter, participants,
14:28:32 <nigel> ... how to join etc that don't move much in time, and then all the more volatile information
14:28:36 <nigel> ... should be kept in the wiki.
14:28:50 <nigel> nigel: That's the status quo but with a clearer home page.
14:29:06 <nigel> tmichel: Yes, I plan to simplify the page and make it clear that they need to go to the wiki
14:29:14 <nigel> ... for more information - currently it's not easy to find that wiki link.
14:30:03 <nigel> close action-430
14:30:04 <trackbot> Closed action-430.
14:30:31 <nigel> Action: tmichel Update CVS hosted landing page to simplify and highlight link into wiki page
14:30:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-433 - Update cvs hosted landing page to simplify and highlight link into wiki page [on Thierry Michel - due 2015-10-22].
14:30:46 <nigel> action-421?
14:30:46 <trackbot> action-421 -- Nigel Megitt to Check with ttml player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. -- due 2015-09-24 -- OPEN
14:30:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/421
14:30:52 <nigel> nigel: I need to chase on this.
14:30:59 <mike> mike has joined #tt
14:31:06 <nigel> Action-421: [meeting 2015-10-15] Nigel to chase up on this
14:31:06 <trackbot> Notes added to Action-421 Check with ttml player manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site..
14:31:29 <nigel> Topic: TPAC 2015
14:32:15 <nigel> nigel: I've added to the wiki page the request to demo TTML2 on the Thursday.
14:32:23 <nigel> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2015
14:33:04 <nigel> nigel: Are there any requests for specific days to cover specific topics?
14:33:13 <nigel> dakim: The netflix request is for the Thursday
14:33:19 <nigel> nigel: Thanks, that's already noted.
14:33:43 <nigel> nigel: Any other preferences for particular dates, slots etc?
14:33:55 <nigel> nigel: If not then I'll allocate them as is convenient.
14:34:50 <nigel> ... The other thing to note is the charter discussion: if anyone has any scope changes they
14:35:10 <nigel> ... would like to propose then this will be the time to do that. Otherwise we'll simply be
14:35:14 <nigel> ... proposing an extension in time.
14:35:38 <nigel> Topic: Incoming Liaison from ATSC
14:35:43 <nigel> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2015Oct/0000.html
14:37:24 <nigel> nigel: This is a request to make a derivative work based on part of TTML2
14:37:46 <nigel> mike: This is a request to comply with the W3C copyright notice. We were planning to put
14:38:07 <nigel> ... the new text under a different namespace. Plh advised that this is still a derived work and
14:38:23 <nigel> ... needs internal approval. He wanted us to come here first and get the group's view.
14:38:55 <nigel> nigel: The first point is that the current text does not match what we agreed as per
14:38:57 <nigel> issue-224?
14:38:57 <trackbot> issue-224 -- Support text placement in 3D coordinate spaces (not zIndex compositing). -- open
14:38:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/224
14:39:10 <nigel> mike: Yes, hence the request to keep tracking developments.
14:39:51 <nigel> nigel: Right now I'd be unhappy for ATSC to adopt what we know is definitely not what we want.
14:40:13 <nigel> pal: The first step is to make the changes.
14:40:28 <nigel> nigel: Yes, the Editor hasn't done that yet.
14:40:35 <nigel> pal: Maybe someone else could edit that section?
14:40:49 <nigel> nigel: Yes, that would be okay.
14:41:17 <nigel> mike: I wanted simply to address the legal compliance question, but we should follow this through.
14:41:23 <nigel> ... I have asked Glenn about making the fixes.
14:41:47 <nigel> pal: So ATSC would ideally like to copy and paste from a W3C Editor's Draft?
14:42:04 <nigel> mike: Right - the previous liaison was that ATSC would like to reference the 3D part, and our
14:42:23 <nigel> ... reaction was that we couldn't give a timescale, so ATSC has asked to derive from and track
14:42:28 <nigel> ... the latest state.
14:42:45 <nigel> pal: And the challenge is that to copy/paste from a rec track doc the WG needs to approve it?
14:43:05 <nigel> mike: There's a boilerplate W3C policy on copying, and it's not permitted to make a derivative
14:43:19 <nigel> ... work. Even though we're not changing the text but we are moving it to an ATSC namespace,
14:43:26 <nigel> ... plh considered it to be a derivative work.
14:43:44 <nigel> pal: Imagine someone were to come across a working draft of a W3C spec and love it. Nothing
14:44:03 <nigel> ... prevents that person from referencing a paragraph in that spec, at their own risk. W3C rules
14:44:13 <nigel> ... don't prevent that.
14:44:15 <plh> present+ plh
14:44:29 <nigel> mike: No, that would be fine. Past experience is that those were ethereal. Unless the group
14:45:07 <nigel> ... wants to make sure the Working draft URL is persistent.
14:45:22 <nigel> nigel: The /TR Working Drafts already have a static link.
14:45:36 <nigel> pal: Also the links to changesets in Mercurial can be used.
14:45:43 <nigel> nigel: I wouldn't recommend that.
14:45:52 <nigel> plh: We don't guarantee the stability of those links.
14:46:16 <nigel> pal: Until the WD is updated.
14:46:22 <nigel> plh: Why can't we update the WD?
14:46:32 <nigel> pal: It would take work! I'm not sure what state it is in.
14:47:22 <nigel> nigel: I think the actions are 1) make the edits to tts:disparity and 2) publish a new WD.
14:47:30 <nigel> ... Would that work Mike?
14:47:54 <nigel> mike: Yes as long as the WD link is permanent. The ATSC process is ongoing too by the way.
14:48:28 <nigel> nigel: Can anyone volunteer to fix up tts:disparity?
14:48:34 <nigel> pal: Yes I can do that.
14:48:38 <nigel> nigel: Great, thank you.
14:49:09 <nigel> mike: The expectation is that it matches CEA 708.1.
14:49:10 <nigel> pal: Yes
14:49:26 <nigel> nigel: As far as I know there are two ways of doing this, which differ only by a factor of 2.
14:49:28 <nigel> pal: I can do that.
14:49:43 <nigel> mike: Thank you. You should drop Glenn a note because he considers it to be his action right now.
14:50:08 <nigel> issue-224: [Meeting 2015-10-15] pal volunteers to do the editing to implement this
14:50:08 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-224 Support text placement in 3D coordinate spaces (not zIndex compositing)..
14:50:30 <nigel> pal: In terms of the liaison back, we need to indicate that this is a WD of TTML2, and it is a draft
14:50:49 <nigel> ... so the group has spent some time on it but please don't depend on any of the document.
14:51:03 <nigel> mike: That goes without saying. Why don't I draft a liaison request, saying Request Denied, but
14:51:07 <nigel> ... we have good news!
14:51:13 <nigel> nigel: Sounds good to me!
14:51:35 <nigel> Action: mdolan Draft outgoing liaison to ATSC proposing to reference an updated WD of TTML2
14:51:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-434 - Draft outgoing liaison to atsc proposing to reference an updated wd of ttml2 [on Mike Dolan - due 2015-10-22].
14:53:19 <nigel> nigel: Can I propose that pal, you don't push the regenerated HTML but just the XML and ask
14:53:35 <nigel> ... Glenn as Editor to pull it and generate the HTML before pushing so he has a chance to review.
14:53:43 <nigel> Topic: TPAC
14:54:04 <nigel> pal: I would like to revisit the topic of moving away from tracker towards github and other tools.
14:54:30 <nigel> ... The lack of notifications on changes with tracker is becoming a blocker. Can we take 30 minutes
14:54:37 <nigel> ... to revisit that topic and see if now is a good time.
14:54:44 <nigel> plh: I'm interested in that conversation.
14:55:05 <nigel> pal: I've found with tracker that it's tough to notice comments that people have added to issues.
14:55:20 <nigel> nigel: Is there wider context?
14:55:34 <nigel> plh: You're probably one of the last WGs using Mercurial and Tracker - most other groups
14:55:50 <nigel> ... have moved to github, which has problems too but many advantages. I would favour moving
14:55:52 <nigel> ... to github.
14:56:35 <nigel> nigel: I have no problem with that, but I'm interested in the mechanics. Can issues be migrated?
14:56:50 <nigel> plh: There's no way to migrate the issues from tracker. I think there's a way to migrate the
14:56:58 <nigel> ... Mercurial repo while keeping its history.
14:57:04 <nigel> pal: Yes there is.
14:57:16 <nigel> plh: I'm happy to show how other groups are using github during the TPAC meeting.
14:57:24 <nigel> nigel: Great, let's consider that added!
14:57:35 <nigel> Action: nigel add tools to TPAC agenda
14:57:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-435 - Add tools to tpac agenda [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-10-22].
14:58:24 <nigel> Topic: Profiles registry
14:58:26 <nigel> action-429?
14:58:26 <trackbot> action-429 -- Mike Dolan to Draft a wg note for the profile short name registry and ttml media type registration -- due 2015-10-08 -- OPEN
14:58:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/429
14:58:41 <nigel> mike: The learning curve was higher than I expected. Pal is lending a hand but it's going to
14:59:02 <nigel> ... take a bit of work. I can make Cyril's suggested changes on the wiki. I've got other things
14:59:44 <nigel> ... to do so it won't happen before TPAC. The publishing process is interestingly complex.
15:00:16 <nigel> mike: I was going to edit the recent other note but it's quite contorted to do by hand. The structure is quite complicated.
15:00:25 <nigel> ... Then the Mercurial post needs to be sorted out.
15:01:12 <nigel> nigel: You might want to start with a fresh Respec doc or there's also bikeshed.
15:02:16 <nigel> ... Thierry, do you have an empty template you can send?
15:02:38 <nigel> tmichel: Yes I'll send Mike an empty template. Do you want to make it a Note?
15:02:43 <nigel> mike: I think we agreed to do that.
15:02:46 <nigel> tmichel: Okay.
15:03:04 <nigel> Action: tmichel Send mdolan an empty respec based Note as a starting point for action-429
15:03:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-436 - Send mdolan an empty respec based note as a starting point for action-429 [on Thierry Michel - due 2015-10-22].
15:03:56 <nigel> nigel: Let's take a 3 minute break and come back to look at IMSC issues for the second half of the meeting...
15:09:14 <nigel> Topic: Issues
15:10:17 <nigel> issue-406?
15:10:17 <trackbot> issue-406 -- #lineBreak-uax14 is never 'used' by a document? -- pending review
15:10:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/406
15:10:52 <nigel> pal: I modified this to mandate lineBreak-uax14 for text profile and leave silent for image profile.
15:12:08 <nigel> pal: nigel raised a separate issue about profiles that we can deal with separately.
15:12:44 <nigel> close issue-406
15:12:44 <trackbot> Closed issue-406.
15:12:52 <nigel> issue-407?
15:12:52 <trackbot> issue-407 -- Excluding #bidi and #direction on image profile is inconsistent -- pending review
15:12:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/407
15:13:29 <nigel> pal: To summarise, some features in TTML1 imply other features. This was a case where there
15:13:55 <nigel> ... was an inconsistency so I tried to correct that inconsistency as proposed by the commenter,
15:14:10 <nigel> ... by saying #bidi is not applicable in the image profile because not all included features are
15:14:12 <nigel> ... supported.
15:15:26 <nigel> nigel: On image profile, are some of the implied features prohibited?
15:15:38 <nigel> pal: Yes. So bidi cannot be used in its entirety.
15:17:18 <nigel> nigel: Okay I see, #writingMode-horizontal is permitted (from the common features) but
15:17:47 <nigel> ... since #direction and #unicodeBidi are prohibited then it does not apply.
15:18:46 <nigel> nigel: I'd suggest removing the "Not applicable" since it's not the spec's job to decide that.
15:18:50 <nigel> pal: ok
15:19:53 <nigel> issue-407: [meeting 2015-10-15] Propose new text: "See implied features: some are prohibited, others are permitted"
15:19:53 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-407 Excluding #bidi and #direction on image profile is inconsistent.
15:20:03 <nigel> reopen issue-407
15:20:04 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-407.
15:20:26 <nigel> issue-410?
15:20:26 <trackbot> issue-410 -- Constraints on #linePadding and #multiRowAlign -- pending review
15:20:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/410
15:20:50 <nigel> action-432?
15:20:50 <trackbot> action-432 -- Nigel Megitt to Nigel, pal, andreas and frans to hook up re changing imsc 1 ebu-tt feature references to point to tech3350 v1.1 -- due 2015-10-15 -- OPEN
15:20:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/432
15:21:47 <nigel> nigel: I started a thread on this but haven't had the answer yet. My view is to go ahead with this
15:22:01 <nigel> ... and if there's a problem then come back to it.
15:22:07 <nigel> pal: Can you propose some specific text?
15:22:57 <nigel> Action-432: [meeting 2015-10-15] nigel to check on details and propose specific wording
15:22:57 <trackbot> Notes added to Action-432 Nigel, pal, andreas and frans to hook up re changing imsc 1 ebu-tt feature references to point to tech3350 v1.1.
15:23:12 <nigel> issue-410: [meeting 2015-10-15] see Action-432 update.
15:23:12 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-410 Constraints on #linePadding and #multiRowAlign.
15:23:47 <nigel> issue-411?
15:23:47 <trackbot> issue-411 -- "shall be inherited" on #multiRowAlign -- pending review
15:23:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/411
15:24:14 <nigel> nigel: The same edit for issue-410 should apply to issue-411 also.
15:24:21 <nigel> reopen issue-411
15:24:24 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-411.
15:24:25 <nigel> reopen issue-410
15:24:25 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-410.
15:24:36 <nigel> issue-411: [meeting 2015-10-15] see Action-432 update.
15:24:36 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-411 "shall be inherited" on #multiRowAlign.
15:24:48 <nigel> action-432: [meeting 2015-10-15] also applies to issue-411
15:24:48 <trackbot> Notes added to action-432 Nigel, pal, andreas and frans to hook up re changing imsc 1 ebu-tt feature references to point to tech3350 v1.1.
15:25:03 <nigel> issue-412?
15:25:03 <trackbot> issue-412 -- The term 'SHALL' should not be used in the definition of Related Video Object -- pending review
15:25:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/412
15:25:28 <nigel> pal: I think the document is better and implements what the commenter suggested.
15:25:45 <nigel> close issue-412
15:25:46 <trackbot> Closed issue-412.
15:26:03 <nigel> issue-413?
15:26:03 <trackbot> issue-413 -- What does "reproducible without error" mean? -- pending review
15:26:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/413
15:26:26 <nigel> nigel: So you've applied the change that Glenn okayed?
15:26:30 <nigel> pal: Yes I think so!
15:26:50 <nigel> close issue-413
15:26:50 <trackbot> Closed issue-413.
15:27:12 <nigel> issue-417?
15:27:12 <trackbot> issue-417 -- #writingMode constraint inconsistent in image profile -- pending review
15:27:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/417
15:27:48 <nigel> pal: I've just posted an update that changes this one as well as the one nigel just suggested.
15:28:52 <nigel> pal: #writingMode now says "See implied features: some are prohibited, others are permitted."
15:29:00 <nigel> ... And I've added the change set to the issue.
15:29:28 <nigel> nigel: Are there any other partial ones?
15:29:33 <nigel> pal: I searched and couldn't find any other.
15:30:13 <nigel> pal: Issue-407 and issue-417 are addressed with the same text nigel proposed on issue-407
15:30:59 <mike> dropping for another meeting
15:31:06 <nigel> nigel: Since I know there are other bigger issues with profiles I don't want to spend any more time on these
15:31:19 <nigel> pal: Also they don't have any conformance implications.
15:31:22 <nigel> close issue-407
15:31:22 <trackbot> Closed issue-407.
15:31:25 <nigel> close issue-417
15:31:25 <trackbot> Closed issue-417.
15:31:39 <nigel> issue-418?
15:31:39 <trackbot> issue-418 -- semantics of ttp:aspectRatio is ambiguous -- pending review
15:31:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/418
15:32:12 <nigel> nigel: After the last change I made a proposal.
15:33:49 <nigel> pal: So you wanted to add a note to Example 2 saying how it would look on a 4:3 display also?
15:33:51 <nigel> nigel: Yes.
15:33:55 <nigel> pal: Okay I can do that.
15:34:50 <nigel> nigel: My aside was just because the numbers seemed like magic - which maths sometimes does!
15:35:02 <nigel> pal: I'm going to implement that change right now...
15:35:17 <nigel> s/that./that. I think that's an excellent suggestion.
15:37:10 <nigel> issue-419?
15:37:10 <trackbot> issue-419 -- Overflow recommendations + #overflow feature -- pending review
15:37:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/419
15:38:18 <nigel> nigel: In this case there seems to be no action to take. Glenn's point seems to miss that there
15:38:31 <nigel> ... is no mandated behaviour for either hidden or visible value of tts:overflow.
15:38:39 <nigel> s/w./w in TTML1.
15:38:52 <nigel> close issue-419
15:38:52 <trackbot> Closed issue-419.
15:39:03 <nigel> issue-420?
15:39:03 <trackbot> issue-420 -- The TTML timing vocabulary does not have elements -- pending review
15:39:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/420
15:40:34 <nigel> nigel: The easy path here is to remove "or element" isn't it? That would strictly be correct.
15:41:01 <nigel> pal: I don't think so. TTML1 §10 is "Timing Element Vocabulary"
15:42:07 <nigel> pal: By the way this came out of me trying to match TTML1 as closely as possible.
15:42:12 <nigel> close issue-420
15:42:12 <trackbot> Closed issue-420.
15:42:17 <nigel> issue-421?
15:42:17 <trackbot> issue-421 -- Term "earlier" is ambiguous -- pending review
15:42:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/421
15:42:42 <nigel> pal: I've satisfied Glenn and Nigel on this one, so it can be closed.
15:42:46 <nigel> close issue-421
15:42:46 <trackbot> Closed issue-421.
15:43:04 <nigel> issue-422?
15:43:04 <trackbot> issue-422 -- Presented region + itts:forcedDisplay -- pending review
15:43:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/422
15:46:13 <nigel> nigel: I added a comment to this.
15:46:45 <nigel> pal: Actually itts:forcedDisplay does not modify the computed value of tts:visibility. And more
15:47:08 <nigel> ... importantly the document conformance should be independent of displayForcedOnlyMode.
15:47:42 <nigel> nigel: I see - itts:forcedDisplay does not modify the computed value of tts:visibility.
15:47:55 <nigel> pal: It used to be like that but based on Glenn's earlier feedback it was changed to be independent.
15:48:58 <nigel> nigel: I don't think there's any change needed here. Maybe the phrasing "allows the processor to override the computed value" isn't helpful.
15:49:14 <nigel> pal: To me that's a different issue, but I agree. If you want to propose new wording to the
15:49:20 <nigel> ... introductory sentence then please go ahead.
15:49:43 <nigel> Action: nigel [imsc1] propose new wording for intro sentence to itts:forcedDisplay
15:49:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-437 - [imsc1] propose new wording for intro sentence to itts:forceddisplay [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-10-22].
15:49:53 <nigel> close issue-422
15:49:53 <trackbot> Closed issue-422.
15:49:56 <nigel> issue-425?
15:49:56 <trackbot> issue-425 -- Awkward prose re: smpte:backgroundImage and ittm:altText -- pending review
15:49:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/425
15:50:42 <nigel> pal: I've done what was proposed.
15:50:46 <nigel> close issue-425
15:50:46 <trackbot> Closed issue-425.
15:50:59 <nigel> issue-426?
15:50:59 <trackbot> issue-426 -- MHP vs W3C reference for PNG -- pending review
15:50:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/426
15:51:42 <nigel> pal: I couldn't find a meaningful difference and I take Glenn's point. Even if we did say MHP most
15:51:47 <nigel> ... people would ignore it anyway!
15:51:49 <nigel> close issue-426
15:51:49 <trackbot> Closed issue-426.
15:51:58 <nigel> issue-427?
15:51:58 <trackbot> issue-427 -- Misc prose tweaks -- pending review
15:51:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/427
15:52:12 <nigel> close issue-427
15:52:12 <trackbot> Closed issue-427.
15:52:20 <nigel> issue-430?
15:52:20 <trackbot> issue-430 -- independent variables in the HRM -- pending review
15:52:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/430
15:52:44 <nigel> pal: This was a question rather than a proposal. I think I've answered it and not heard back.
15:52:51 <nigel> nigel: And you told Glenn about this comment on the issue?
15:53:07 <nigel> pal: Yes, I reminded him of all the issues I'd addressed, on the day (Sep 21)
15:53:24 <nigel> ... Regardless, this may be taken up by bigger things due to Glenn's other comments on the HRM.
15:53:27 <nigel> close issue-430
15:53:27 <trackbot> Closed issue-430.
15:53:38 <nigel> issue-432?
15:53:38 <trackbot> issue-432 -- Multiple layers of background color in HRM -- pending review
15:53:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/432
15:54:14 <nigel> pal: I asked Glenn if he wanted clarification and he didn't respond, so I assume he's not unhappy.
15:54:19 <nigel> close issue-432
15:54:19 <trackbot> Closed issue-432.
15:54:49 <nigel> pal: There are a couple of open issues that are linked, that I'd like to cover.
15:55:11 <nigel> issue-434?
15:55:11 <trackbot> issue-434 -- Behavior in case of multiple images in a region -- open
15:55:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/434
15:55:21 <nigel> issue-433?
15:55:21 <trackbot> issue-433 -- Presented image definition -- open
15:55:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/433
15:55:23 <nigel> issue-424?
15:55:23 <trackbot> issue-424 -- Awkward text re: smpte:backgroundImage dimensions -- open
15:55:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/424
15:55:42 <nigel> pal: These issues are questions about document non-conformance. IMSC 1 specifically does
15:55:59 <nigel> ... not specify behaviour in this case. Glenn suggested guidance would be helpful. I've tried
15:56:11 <nigel> ... drafting generic advice on dealing with non-conformant documents. The problem is that
15:56:24 <nigel> ... fundamentally this is dependent on the application and the user preference. Two extreme
15:56:27 <nigel> ... examples:
15:56:42 <nigel> ... 1. During authoring I would expect an authoring tool never to emit a non-conforming document.
15:56:59 <nigel> ... 2. A player - I would hope that a player should do its best to do something with a non-conformant document.
15:57:12 <nigel> ... Because the circumstances are so broad I don't think it's possible to come up with a generic
15:57:26 <nigel> ... definition with conformance text for behaviour in case of a non-conformant document. We
15:57:51 <nigel> ... could go down the path of exploring all the scenarios. I'm not sure if we could ever do that
15:58:06 <nigel> ... in a useful way. I've not been able to find anything that makes sense and is helpful and
15:58:17 <nigel> ... non-harmful.
15:58:37 <nigel> dakim: With non-conformance, you just have to handle it. A spec document isn't the place for
15:58:52 <nigel> ... that. Just don't address it. It's your problem!
15:59:04 <nigel> nigel: I think that's fair.
15:59:23 <nigel> pal: In that case I'm happy to close those issues, maybe with a note, until someone has a better idea.
15:59:32 <nigel> tmichel: Did Glenn raise a specific request?
15:59:34 <nigel> pal: No.
15:59:40 <nigel> tmichel: Then it's an implementation issue.
15:59:45 <nigel> pal: Yes, I think so too.
16:01:31 <nigel> issue-424: [Meeting 2015-10-15] Agreed to close since no wording for non-conformance handling has been proposed, by anyone.
16:01:31 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-424 Awkward text re: smpte:backgroundImage dimensions.
16:01:42 <nigel> issue-434: [Meeting 2015-10-15] Agreed to close since no wording for non-conformance handling has been proposed, by anyone.
16:01:42 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-434 Behavior in case of multiple images in a region.
16:01:47 <nigel> issue-433: [Meeting 2015-10-15] Agreed to close since no wording for non-conformance handling has been proposed, by anyone.
16:01:47 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-433 Presented image definition.
16:01:51 <nigel> close issue-424
16:01:51 <trackbot> Closed issue-424.
16:01:54 <nigel> close issue-433
16:01:54 <trackbot> Closed issue-433.
16:01:59 <nigel> close issue-434
16:01:59 <trackbot> Closed issue-434.
16:02:37 <nigel> action-431?
16:02:37 <trackbot> action-431 -- Nigel Megitt to File issue re profile feature inclusion in imsc 1 documents -- due 2015-10-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:02:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/431
16:02:44 <nigel> close action-431
16:02:44 <trackbot> Closed action-431.
16:03:24 <nigel> nigel: We're out of time so I'll adjourn. Thanks everyone for your time - we got through loads!
16:03:27 <nigel> nigel: [adjourns meeting]
16:03:59 <nigel> rrsagent, make logs public
16:04:04 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/15-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:08:05 <nigel> s|s/|
16:11:43 <nigel> s/Topic: TPAC 2015/Topic: TPAC
16:11:57 <nigel> s/Topic: TPAC/Topic: TPAC 2015/g
16:12:10 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:12:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/15-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:17:09 <nigel> s|s/|
16:17:11 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:17:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/15-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:18:33 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
16:18:34 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:18:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/15-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:01:15 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tt