IRC log of pf on 2015-10-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:56:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #pf
15:56:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-pf-irc
15:56:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:56:14 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #pf
15:56:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
15:56:16 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:56:17 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
15:56:17 [trackbot]
Date: 14 October 2015
15:56:21 [janina]
agenda?
15:56:25 [janina]
agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
15:56:25 [janina]
agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open
15:56:25 [janina]
agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:56:25 [janina]
agenda+ Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/
15:56:26 [janina]
agenda+ MAUR Note CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0049.html
15:56:28 [janina]
agenda+ HTML 5.1 Alt Edits -- https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/
15:56:30 [janina]
agenda+ Rechartering Progress [See Below]
15:56:33 [janina]
agenda+ TPAC Update [See Below]
15:56:35 [janina]
agenda+ ARIA.Next Items
15:56:38 [janina]
agenda+ Other Task Force Updates; COGA; SVG; WG & TF Reorganizations
15:56:40 [janina]
agenda+ Other Business
15:56:43 [janina]
agenda+ next and future meetings http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar#s_273
15:56:46 [janina]
agenda+ be done
15:57:05 [janina]
present+ Janina
15:58:05 [fesch]
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15:58:59 [tzviya]
tzviya has joined #PF
15:59:30 [tzviya]
present+ Tzviya_Siegman
16:01:23 [joanie]
present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:01:50 [fesch]
present+ fesch
16:02:54 [JF]
JF has joined #pf
16:03:09 [JF]
Present+ JF
16:03:22 [fesch]
scribe: fesch
16:04:10 [Gottfried]
Gottfried has joined #pf
16:04:49 [JF]
agenda?
16:05:47 [janina]
present+ Janina
16:06:04 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:06:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:06:52 [fesch]
js: final prep for TPAC...
16:07:56 [JF]
Present+ Katie haritos-Shea
16:08:20 [JF]
s/haritos-Shea/Haritos-Shea
16:09:13 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #pf
16:09:28 [fesch]
js: MAUR call for consensus is out there expires tomorrow
16:11:16 [JF]
Q+ to ask about the new role attributes
16:11:19 [fesch]
ts: had face to face in NY, more alignment with open web platform,
16:11:33 [tzviya]
minutes from EPUB 3.1 Face to face https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RCGR48EfxgfsIaqxGsW-LVzpa2XdQ0ILI8iIzysSEVk/edit?usp=sharing
16:11:48 [fesch]
ts: can ping me with questions
16:12:11 [janina]
ack jf
16:12:11 [Zakim]
JF, you wanted to ask about the new role attributes
16:12:46 [fesch]
jf: on list a bunch of new aria roles vs rel attribute
16:13:24 [fesch]
ts: come to the dpub meeting tomorrow it is an hour long discussion
16:13:38 [MichaelC]
+MichaelC
16:13:42 [MichaelC]
+Rich
16:13:46 [jamesn]
not west-coast friendly
16:13:53 [fesch]
rs: rel doesn't exist in SVG... does not map to aria
16:14:07 [MichaelC]
+JohnF
16:14:11 [MichaelC]
+Gottfried
16:14:14 [MichaelC]
+JamesN
16:14:25 [fesch]
jf: not worried about mapping since mapping only applies to AT
16:15:12 [fesch]
rs: not true, it can affect navigation and in the case of dpub, we have roles but we have additional semantic info as to where they go
16:15:25 [jamesn]
q+
16:15:37 [fesch]
rs: coga group already decided that they would use aria for destination semantics
16:16:31 [fesch]
rs: suggesting coga pick a few for inclusion in ARIA 1.1, in coga they are largely used for styling, dpub might use this for styling too
16:17:05 [fesch]
jf: I will come to dpub meeting tomorrow
16:17:43 [fesch]
rs: rel is a dumping ground, MSAA had an issue...
16:18:42 [fesch]
js: this isn't new, have been looking at it for a while
16:19:33 [fesch]
jn: dpub decided a way to do stuff, that may be the wrong thing to do at this point
16:19:34 [JF]
Q+
16:19:47 [fesch]
rs: they discussed them...
16:20:47 [fesch]
jn: aria-destination doesn't exist anywhere right?
16:22:18 [fesch]
jf: why we meet at PF we take the long view, if we need to add to agenda for PF
16:22:41 [JF]
ack JF
16:22:58 [JF]
request that this beomces an agenda item for a future PF meeting
16:23:24 [jamesn]
ack me
16:23:39 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:23:39 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Actions Review (Specs) http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
16:23:53 [Ryladog_]
Ryladog_ has joined #pf
16:23:59 [fesch]
action-1669
16:23:59 [trackbot]
action-1669 -- Katie Haritos-Shea to Look at data on the web best practices http://www.w3.org/tr/dwbp/ -- due 2015-09-16 -- OPEN
16:23:59 [trackbot]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1669
16:24:06 [Ryladog_]
+Katie Haritos-Shea
16:24:35 [MichaelC]
action-1669 due 1 week
16:24:35 [trackbot]
Set action-1669 Look at data on the web best practices http://www.w3.org/tr/dwbp/ due date to 2015-10-21.
16:24:37 [fesch]
kh: make due next week
16:25:01 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:25:01 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
16:26:28 [fesch]
no new working drafts... are we going to be tracking crytpo... ARIA in HTML, repeating document... selection...
16:26:38 [fesch]
mc: nothing for us
16:26:43 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:26:43 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Community Groups http://www.w3.org/community/groups/" taken up [from janina]
16:27:00 [fesch]
mc: nothing new
16:27:06 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:27:06 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, fesch
16:27:13 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:27:13 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, fesch
16:27:21 [fesch]
zakim, close item
16:27:21 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'close item', fesch
16:27:42 [fesch]
zakim close this item
16:27:53 [fesch]
zakim, close this item
16:27:53 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
16:27:54 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:27:54 [Zakim]
5. MAUR Note CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0049.html [from janina]
16:28:03 [fesch]
zakim, nest item
16:28:03 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'nest item', fesch
16:28:08 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:28:08 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "MAUR Note CfC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0049.html" taken up [from janina]
16:28:44 [fesch]
js: can take up editing with Shane
16:29:03 [fesch]
js: may make a big change in appendix B
16:29:25 [fesch]
js; should that list include commenters
16:29:45 [fesch]
md: I add them in a separate list
16:30:03 [fesch]
s/mc/mc/
16:30:12 [fesch]
s/md/mc/
16:30:24 [fesch]
js: any other comments?
16:30:28 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:30:28 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "HTML 5.1 Alt Edits -- https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/" taken up [from janina]
16:30:42 [cyns]
cyns has joined #pf
16:31:06 [fesch]
js: redafting about alts, please provide feedback on it
16:31:25 [fesch]
js: will probably keep open past TPAC
16:31:30 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:31:30 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Rechartering Progress" taken up [from See Below]
16:32:11 [fesch]
js: getting close, current status
16:35:46 [JF]
Q+ to ask about whe (if?) we will start calling PF "APA"
16:39:07 [JF]
msg/ jamesn I'm going to go to the dPub call tomorrow morning. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks this is a little too knee-jerk. When your favorite tool is an ARIA hammer, every problem looks like an ARIA nail
16:39:34 [fesch]
q?
16:39:41 [JF]
s/msg/ jamesn I'm going to go to the dPub call tomorrow morning. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks this is a little too knee-jerk. When your favorite tool is an ARIA hammer, every problem looks like an ARIA nail
16:40:26 [JF]
ack JF
16:40:26 [Zakim]
JF, you wanted to ask about whe (if?) we will start calling PF "APA"
16:41:09 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:41:09 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "TPAC Update" taken up [from See Below]
16:41:52 [fesch]
js: there is an agenda for ARIA and APA,, fairly well formed
16:42:49 [MichaelC]
q+
16:43:24 [fesch]
rs: we are going to be ARIA 2.0, a community group, and getting stuff to CR, roles for twitter, facebook...
16:44:14 [fesch]
js: APA talking with CSS, unclear how many can join
16:45:00 [fesch]
js: not sure how much will participate on Friday
16:45:55 [fesch]
js: remaining agenda - expectations on APA will be different than PF
16:46:28 [fesch]
js: good thinking on spec review in when they come out quickly (every day)
16:47:13 [fesch]
js: one activity will be R&D task force - Marc Hakken, want time for that
16:47:48 [fesch]
js: last session on Thursday, captcha, MAUR...
16:48:02 [fesch]
js: anything we are missing?
16:48:43 [tzviya]
q+
16:49:25 [MichaelC]
ack me
16:50:05 [janina]
ack tz
16:50:08 [fesch]
mc: meeting planners are going to be labeling the meeting room for PF, look at separate agendas for ARIA and APA for that room
16:51:00 [fesch]
zs: what will Marc and Jason be looking at in R&D?
16:51:41 [fesch]
zakim, next item
16:51:41 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "ARIA.Next Items" taken up [from janina]
16:52:38 [fesch]
rs: if you want to get back to rel vs aria-destination - the floor is open
16:52:50 [janina]
topic: rhel vs the world
16:53:27 [fesch]
jf: I think it is a bigger issues, we are looking at expanding - we have heard from user agents that aria goes to AT
16:53:56 [fesch]
jf: we already have a mechanism, for doing this
16:54:50 [fesch]
rs: the coga people want to use the markup to drive styling.
16:55:30 [tzviya]
q+
16:55:51 [fesch]
rs: info is cross-cutting, why wouldn't AT want to not know the destination... that info is important to the user as it is AT.
16:56:25 [fesch]
rs: we want to map into accessibility service layers, but ALSO consistent styling for COGA, digital books...
16:56:31 [joanie]
s/rhel/rel/
16:57:11 [fesch]
rs: were looking at special roles - so we asked why do we need a special role - they have need to know what the destination is.
16:57:37 [fesch]
rs: coga wants to map to consistent styling, not AT
16:57:55 [fesch]
rs: we are also trying to meet the timeframe for DPUB
16:58:30 [fesch]
rs: the problem with rel, is it isn't limited, adds a level of confusion, also needs for SVG and SVG is going into digital books,
16:59:05 [fesch]
rs: if we want it for assitstive technologies, rel is not in the accessibility APIs
16:59:59 [fesch]
jf: we have heard repeatedly that ARIA attributes should not impact the GUI, rel is what you want to use, just by having a prefix to the attribute you fix the confusion problem
17:00:04 [janina]
q?
17:00:30 [fesch]
rs: we aren't asking the browsers venders to do anythings
17:00:47 [tzviya]
http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-dpub-aria-minutes.html#item02
17:00:51 [fesch]
ts: there may be confusion on what DPUB asked for.
17:01:20 [fesch]
ts: so may want to go over this in tomorrows meeting...
17:02:02 [tzviya]
https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/96
17:02:21 [fesch]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-pf-minutes.html fesch
17:03:10 [fesch]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-pf-minutes.html fesch