14:27:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:27:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-lvtf-irc
14:27:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:27:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:27:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:27:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:27:23 <trackbot> Date: 14 October 2015
14:27:31 <AWK> Chair: AWK
14:27:38 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
14:27:38 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:27:39 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:27:39 <Zakim> 4. rewrite use cases [from jallan]
14:27:39 <Zakim> 6. survey about overview - discussion [from jallan]
14:27:39 <Zakim> 7. review and discussion of updates to user needs and categorization [from AWK]
14:29:38 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #LVTF
14:30:04 <AWK> agenda+ teleconference attendance https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/
14:30:29 <laura> present+ Laura
14:31:16 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #lvtf
14:31:45 <shawn> present+ Shawn
14:33:41 <AWK> Zakim, close item 6
14:33:41 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, AWK
14:33:46 <shawn> q?
14:33:46 <Ryladog> +Katie Haritos-Shea
14:33:48 <AWK> zakim, queue?
14:33:48 <Zakim> I see jallan on the speaker queue
14:33:52 <shawn> q- jallan
14:33:54 <AWK> ack j
14:33:57 <AWK> Zakim, close item 6
14:33:57 <Zakim> agendum 6, survey about overview - discussion, closed
14:33:58 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:33:58 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:34:14 <shawn> agenda?
14:34:36 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #lvtf
14:35:13 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
14:36:02 <ChuckOp> ChuckOp has joined #lvtf
14:36:38 <jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
14:36:51 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
14:36:51 <Zakim> agendum 3. "volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category)" taken up [from jallan]
14:36:55 <ChuckOp> I promise I'll volunteer to scribe in the future.  I need to become familiar with the procedures involved.
14:37:01 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 8
14:37:01 <Zakim> agendum 8. "teleconference attendance https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/" taken up [from AWK]
14:37:19 <shawn> s/ I promise I'll volunteer to scribe in the future.  I need to become familiar with the procedures involved./
14:37:34 <jon_avila> awk: reminder that are asking people to indicate their telecomm attendance or non-attendance on the survey link
14:37:42 <Wayne> wayne+
14:38:04 <shawn> present+ wayne
14:38:40 <AWK> Zakim, close item 8
14:38:40 <Zakim> agendum 8, teleconference attendance https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/, closed
14:38:41 <ChuckOp> chuckop+
14:38:42 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:38:42 <Zakim> 3. volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category) [from jallan]
14:38:59 <AWK> zakim, take up item 3
14:38:59 <Zakim> agendum 3. "volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category)" taken up [from jallan]
14:39:45 <jon_avila> awk: discussion about user stories and use cases -- Eric put in some work after the call and one from John R.  We need to get more content into.
14:40:09 <AWK> Wiki link user stories: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/User_stories_-_use_cases
14:40:16 <jon_avila> awk: preference to get this filled out at outset
14:41:29 <jon_avila> awk: if you have questions ask.    Plan some time to take  a look.
14:41:49 <AWK> Zakim, close item 3
14:41:49 <Zakim> agendum 3, volunteers with action items for MORE user cases (5 per category), closed
14:41:51 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:41:51 <Zakim> 4. rewrite use cases [from jallan]
14:42:31 <jon_avila> wayne: sorting out the effects of low vision on the wiki -- that was a big job.
14:42:33 <AWK> Zakim, next item
14:42:33 <Zakim> agendum 4. "rewrite use cases" taken up [from jallan]
14:43:24 <Ryladog> q+
14:43:47 <jon_avila> awk: some are on the longer side.  We need to get them crisp and concise.  Look at ther shorter ones as models.
14:44:05 <jon_avila> awk: don't need to go into solution as there isn't always one solution.  We want to identify the user experience that is going to manifest itself.
14:44:15 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-lvtf-minutes.html shawn
14:44:52 <jon_avila> laura: so we don't need to put in what solves the problem?  The instructions indicate that.
14:44:58 <jon_avila> awk: probably should suggest that.
14:45:55 <jon_avila> awk: trying to get at the issues accessing content so we can  talk about what you can do about it as the author or tool maker
14:46:49 <shawn> present+ Andrew, CharlesO, Katie, MichaelC, Srini
14:47:05 <jon_avila> awk: a solution may only work in one situation in one technology.  Want to keep resolutions separate.  We will need to collect user stories are addressed today as well.
14:47:23 <Ryladog> q+
14:47:30 <shawn> Chair: Andrew
14:47:52 <jon_avila> awk: maybe have bullet under number and say how a user might experience something.
14:48:38 <AWK> ack k
14:48:39 <jon_avila> awk: if there is a solution for everything then people might think there is not a problem.
14:49:09 <Wayne> q+
14:49:46 <shawn> regrets: Bruce, Erich
14:50:07 <shawn> ack r
14:50:09 <jon_avila> katie: specific suggestion for use cases that have already been written.  For people who wrote them to make bullets --- keep what you have and then have tag line and then summary and then a deep explanation.
14:50:23 <jon_avila> awk: sounds reasonable
14:50:38 <jon_avila> awk: Katie could you model one?
14:50:40 <jon_avila> katie: yes
14:52:13 <jon_avila> awk: if you can't add new content then please try help out and make the content that is there more clear.
14:52:15 <AWK> ack r
14:52:18 <AWK> ack w
14:52:19 <jon_avila> q?
14:52:54 <jon_avila> wayne: can we do a rough bibliography and then refer to them for now and then later re-organize into a proper bibliography
14:53:46 <jon_avila> awk: could put citations as bullet so it doesn't appear as part of use case.
14:53:56 <jon_avila> wayne: redid mine as story as it reads better.
14:54:23 <AWK> Zakim, close item 4
14:54:23 <Zakim> agendum 4, rewrite use cases, closed
14:54:24 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:54:24 <Zakim> 7. review and discussion of updates to user needs and categorization [from AWK]
14:54:53 <AWK> ZAkim, close item 7
14:54:53 <Zakim> agendum 7, review and discussion of updates to user needs and categorization, closed
14:54:54 <jon_avila> awk: meant to put in review of updates to overview.
14:54:56 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
14:55:00 <AWK> agenda+ Review of overview
14:55:09 <AWK> Zakim, next item
14:55:09 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Review of overview" taken up [from AWK]
14:55:23 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision
14:55:57 <jon_avila> awk: did make some updates with nested lists on the wiki
14:56:42 <jon_avila> awk: in the wiki you use # to make a numbered list.  To do sub bullets you use #* the next item with just a # will be a numbear 2
14:57:38 <jon_avila> katie: just did on use cases page -- there is an example of that as well.
14:59:11 <jon_avila> awk: overview of low vision is last link in IRC.  Spent some time last week moving things around.
14:59:54 <jon_avila> awk: 4 main areas. Acuity, contrast, color, field loss
15:00:38 <jon_avila> awk: Updated outcomes -- desired outcomes are increased clarity and reduced fatigue
15:01:21 <jon_avila> awk: last week we talked about field loss. We changed it so it would just be about physical field loss
15:01:38 <jon_avila> awk: we didn't cover environmental field loss
15:01:57 <jon_avila> awk: wonder like a phrase like perceptual area might be confusing or helpful
15:03:35 <shawn> jon: ... field loss - environmental, e.g., very close to object ...
15:04:18 <jon_avila> awk: field loss can be because of distance from screen or by zooming in.  It is an outcome of what the user needs to do.
15:05:05 <jon_avila> awk: field loss may be an outcome.  Do we want to keep that in as a category as well.
15:05:16 <Wayne> q+
15:05:26 <AWK> ack w
15:06:53 <jon_avila> wayne: find that effects fell into two categories -- functional limitations versus physical limiations.
15:07:33 <jon_avila> wayne: disease resuilt in conditions in eye or brain and the result is something such as field loss
15:08:14 <jon_avila> wayne: try to group together in field loss
15:08:46 <jon_avila> wayne: glare is another interesting one. There could be internal glare which could make external glare an issue. Glare could appear on both lists.  The ability to deal with glare is a problem.
15:09:08 <jon_avila> wayne: does it present in the person or what the person can do.
15:09:13 <AWK> Wayne talking about this wiki page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Types_of_Low_Vision
15:09:22 <jon_avila> awk: wayne is referring to the types of low vision page
15:09:46 <laura> Wayne's 2 list:
15:09:48 <laura> Effects: Conditions
15:09:49 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Types_of_Low_Vision#Effects:_Conditions
15:09:54 <laura> Effects: Functional Limits
15:09:55 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Types_of_Low_Vision#Effects:_Functional_Limits
15:10:13 <jon_avila> q?
15:10:14 <shawn> q+
15:10:44 <jon_avila> q+
15:10:56 <AWK> ack s
15:10:57 <jon_avila> wayen: challenges with categorizing the effects of low vision
15:11:36 <jon_avila> shawn: wnated to check to see if I understand Wayne.  Did you separate out into two lists.  I think that is interesting and happy to help anyone figure out.
15:11:46 <jon_avila> shawn: Could create sub categories as nested lists.
15:12:21 <AWK> ack j
15:12:21 <jon_avila> wayne: would like someone to check over it.
15:12:28 <shawn> s/wayen/wayne
15:12:58 <AWK> Jon: I like the approach of working toward functional issues rather than diseases
15:13:13 <laura> +1
15:13:16 <shawn> jon: continue to work to the functional issue. lot of people don't fit well into categories or even spcific eye condition, but have functional limitation
15:13:18 <AWK> ... many people don't have a specific condition but do experience the functional results
15:14:03 <AWK> ... people will want to be able to map conditions to functional outcomes to help understand
15:14:26 <AWK> ... other factors play into how users are affected - e.g. environmental factors
15:14:38 <jon_avila> q-
15:15:20 <jon_avila> awk: goal was to have an appendix to relegate the specific of the medical conditions to functional concerns that ultimately work out.
15:15:22 <laura> s/Wayne's 2 list:/Wayne's 2 lists:
15:16:06 <jon_avila> awk: want to tell people that a site needs to address functional needs rather than a specific condition
15:17:05 <jon_avila> wayne: would like people to review his list and make recommendations.  Made a laundry list of items -- some are similar but have slight differences.
15:18:38 <shawn> [ refresh https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Types_of_Low_Vision#Effects:_Functional_Limits  -- I started sub-bullets. I think it will help refine it ]
15:18:53 <jon_avila> wayne: while we have a long list I want to get it down to a smaller group of main categories
15:19:16 <jon_avila> awk: feels like it's something we could work on for 5 years and still not be perfect.  We want to make it clear.
15:20:55 <jon_avila> awk:  our process is messy and imprecise -- we all need to try out different models and then come to consensu on the model that works.
15:21:01 <jon_avila> awk: does that sound right to people?
15:21:17 <Wayne> +1
15:21:36 <jon_avila> awk: our asks of people for the week are to review Wayne's page and the overview page and try and help us make some suggestions.
15:22:09 <jon_avila> awk: carve out some time to take a look at user stories or items just mentioned.
15:22:23 <AWK> Overview page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Overview_of_Low_Vision
15:22:42 <AWK> Types of low vision page: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Types_of_Low_Vision
15:24:27 <jon_avila> shawn: thanks to Wayne for starting the comprehensive list.  We will distill it -- I will work with it while multi-tasking with the others.
15:24:50 <jon_avila> wayne: comes from the Anne Corne list of low vision
15:25:17 <jon_avila> awk: any other thoughts to raise?
15:26:52 <jon_avila> * I will be at IAAP
15:27:32 <jon_avila> awk: not seeking a quarum -- if there are people and things to work on we can still have a call next week even though some people will be out at IAAP and elsewhere
15:27:51 <jon_avila> shawn: leave time slot open for now.
15:27:59 <jon_avila> awk: will let you know on Monday if it will happen.
15:28:02 <jon_avila> awk: thanks everyone
15:28:08 <jon_avila> zakim, list attendees
15:28:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MichaelC, Srini, AWK, erich_manser, shawn, Jim, Laura, Katie, Haritos-Shea, Wayne, jon_avila, Andrew, CharlesO
15:28:18 <laura> Thanks! Bye.
15:28:21 <laura> laura has left #lvtf
15:28:23 <jon_avila> rrsagent, make minutes
15:28:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/14-lvtf-minutes.html jon_avila