14:01:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:01:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/12-dpub-irc
14:01:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:01:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:01:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:01:42 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:01:43 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:01:43 <trackbot> Date: 12 October 2015
14:04:21 <Karen> Karen has joined #dpub
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14:58:14 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Oct/0039.html
14:58:15 <dkaplan3> history
14:58:27 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
14:58:38 <ivan> Regrets+ Ben, Leonard, Vlad, Tim
14:58:48 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
14:59:16 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
14:59:20 <brady_duga> present+ duga
14:59:33 <mgylling> present+ Markus_Gylling
14:59:59 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya_Siegman
15:00:00 <dauwhe> present+ Dave_Cramer
15:01:06 <pkra> present+ Peter Krautzberger
15:01:11 <HeatherF> HeatherF has joined #dpub
15:01:25 <tzviya> agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Oct/0039.html
15:01:26 <NickRuffilo> NickRuffilo has joined #dpub
15:01:33 <HeatherF> present+ Heather_Flanagan
15:02:10 <HeatherF> Yes!
15:02:18 <NickRuffilo> scribenick: NickRuffilo
15:02:27 <astearns> present+ Alan Stearns
15:03:13 <Karen> present+ Karen
15:03:36 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "I shall use my powers to expell the ghosts"
15:05:23 <NickRuffilo> Markus: Meeting Chair
15:05:23 <ivan> Chair: Markus
15:05:31 <mgylling>  http://www.w3.org/2015/10/05-dpub-minutes.html
15:05:41 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "Minutes URL has been posted from last week, are there any objections to approval?"
15:06:06 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "Approved."
15:06:21 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "Noel, please introduce"
15:07:21 <NickRuffilo> Noel: "I'm an ebook designer/developer for Hal Leonard.  My role is to design and convert their entire catalog - 200,000 books to digital formats.  Old archival images, to epub, or PDFs, mobis, alot of work in the trenches - sometimes in indesign, otherwise sublime text and our own stuff.  Some audio/video and some interactive elements as well."
15:07:24 <tzviya> present+ Noel_Tanner
15:07:42 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "I don't think you've officially joined, but this is your 'getting your feet wet meeting'"
15:07:46 <ivan> present+ ivan
15:07:50 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "What are the source formats you're coming from?"
15:08:40 <NickRuffilo> Noel: "Starts from InDesign...  We get things from txt files from editors, SVG/AI graphics, source audio files, photoshop documents...  Main body is often PDF, InDesign, Quark, or any other page-layout application."
15:09:43 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Hal Leonard has been part of W3C for nearly a year - in the Audio group, but they wanted to get into the publishing side as well.  It's interesting that may come up at some point next to Math ML, there are books that will have to include music..."
15:10:18 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "Next is - finalizing the FPWD of PWP committing formally as a group to move forward with it - the Outreach plans for it.  Was delayed until this week to discuss outreach."
15:10:21 <mgylling> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pwp/
15:10:33 <ivan> Topic: FPWD publication
15:10:53 <NickRuffilo> ...: "Lets begin with the document itself.  A number of things we decided..."
15:11:48 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #dpub
15:11:50 <tzviya> s/.../Markus
15:12:18 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "The major things were all around the last section - on the relationship between epub and the portable web document.  It was still pretty isolated - and make it more part of the document.  Then we had the definition for the web publication didn't make it clear that we were interested in a publication where the core publication was focused on web technologies."
15:13:14 <Noel> Noel has joined #dpub
15:13:24 <Noel> Thanks for the link! Hello again!
15:13:26 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "I've added some sentences and text.  Based on the open-web platform.  doesn't need to be exclusively on open-web - such as a scholarly publication I may want to attach a copy of the presentation slides which may be a powerpoint or anything else that may not be part of open web.  This is what I did.  I may have made some minor editorial changes."
15:14:00 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "That's what I put out tuesday afternoon.  There was only 1 comment - editorial - to change reference from PDF to the ISO reference."
15:14:33 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "OK.  Dave - you promised to do a bit of soul searching with your colleagues.  To make sure that the current version concerns were alleviated."
15:14:43 <NickRuffilo> Dave: "I seem to have made happy the people who need to be happy"
15:14:52 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Happiness for all - the goal of standards"
15:15:37 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "In reference to clarifying that the open-web-platform is a core to the doc, and you point to a wiki page that is not an exhaustive list of what is part of the open-web platform?"
15:16:22 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Yes, I don't think a full list exists.  But I think this is a good start.  Not all open-web is W3C - such as javascript.  I tried to find a resource that listed everything, but this was all I could find."
15:16:43 <mgylling> q?
15:16:48 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "Is there anyone else that would like to comment?"
15:17:14 <NickRuffilo> markus: "If we've exhausted comments, lets get a concensus check for the FPWD"
15:17:20 <dauwhe> +1
15:17:21 <ivan> +1
15:17:22 <tzviya> +1
15:17:22 <astearns> +1
15:17:23 <HeatherF> +1
15:17:23 <pkra> +1
15:17:24 <mgylling> +1
15:17:28 <dkaplan3> +1
15:17:29 <Noel> +1
15:17:31 <Karen> +1
15:18:01 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #dpub
15:18:06 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "We should open this up to the list..."
15:18:13 <laudrain> +1
15:18:16 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "It was for a week"
15:19:13 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "OK - then we are good to go."
15:19:35 <tzviya> RESOLUTION: PWP will go to FPWD
15:19:46 <NickRuffilo> RESOLVED: PWP will go to FPWD
15:20:21 <pkra> I can scribe.
15:20:31 <ivan> scribenick: pkra
15:21:15 <pkra> Karen: Wonderful milestone for DPUB, collaboration with IDPF&W3C. Had conversations within and without.
15:21:31 <pkra> ... we want to be careful about the messaging.
15:21:43 <pkra> ... and temper the outreach volume.
15:22:05 <pkra> ... We think it makes sense to have both IDPF and W3C post information on their websites (news item, give context) on date of publication.
15:22:20 <pkra> ... provide support via blog, twitter etc.
15:22:38 <pkra> ... question is: how newsworthy is this to post with Publishers Weekly etc?
15:23:05 <pkra> ... right now, plan is to do a short news update, focus on careful communication (FPWD etc)
15:23:07 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:23:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/12-dpub-minutes.html ivan
15:23:17 <mgylling> q?
15:23:36 <pkra> Nick: agree with Karen.
15:24:03 <dauwhe> q+
15:24:27 <tzviya> q+
15:24:27 <pkra> ... First education. We have to explain the process. What is a WD, 2-3 pars, what's next steps, how to provide input. Point is to get publishers to be more interactive.
15:25:08 <pkra> ... Second, it is Frankfurt Book Fair this week. So nobody in publishing news is going to write about this this week, probably early next week too.
15:25:26 <pkra> ... so great to have it out on Thursday but expect to actually talk to people next week.
15:25:42 <mgylling> ack dau
15:26:13 <pkra> dauwhe: Some of our messaging complication is that this is not a spec but a note.
15:26:34 <pkra> ... pay particular attention to the relationship of this WD and what's happening in epub 3.1.
15:26:49 <pkra> ... some momentum to realize some of the vision of this document.
15:26:57 <NickRuffilo> q+
15:27:10 <pkra> mgylling: read through the draft from this point of view and came out pretty positive.
15:27:47 <mgylling> ack tzv
15:27:50 <pkra> dauwhe: agreed. But make it clear we're working together to get closer to making this a reality. This community has come together in many different places but this is the place where we came together for the greater vision.
15:28:37 <pkra> tzviya: +1 to dauwhe. From the experience of rolling out the ARIA module, we had to give a lot of background both to publishers (not knowing about ARIA) and a11y (not knowing about publishing).
15:29:20 <mgylling> q?
15:29:33 <mgylling> ack NickR
15:29:33 <pkra> ... it would be good to have this from various sides. E.g., Bill "I'm with IDPF, here's our pov", Ivan "I'm with W3C, here's our pov"
15:29:45 <tzviya> DPUB ARIA blog post https://www.w3.org/blog/2015/07/aria-and-dpub-publish-fpwd/
15:30:14 <pkra> Nick: +1. The biggest concern: those who have been active, have been active in IDPF. So they will ask why the should care about this W3C thing.
15:31:08 <pkra> ... others are sitting out, make decisions really late. So they sat out IDPF/epub(3), so they might look to sit through this, too. We should present this as the next evolutionary step.
15:31:16 <tzviya> s/.../noel
15:31:16 <mgylling> q?
15:31:46 <pkra> Noel: from the experience of working in a publishing company, can confirm this pov to wait for the dust to settle.
15:31:59 <Karen> Example of what Web Payments IG posted for a first public working draft document: http://www.w3.org/blog/news/archives/4616?pk_campaign=feed&pk_kwd=first-public-working-draft-web-payments-use-cases-1-0
15:33:14 <pkra> Karen: would love to bring together the volunteers. Tzviya, could you contextualize like you did for DPUB-aria, Nick maybe for IDPF/W3C context. Maybe we can regroup mid-week, share with mailing list.
15:34:53 <pkra> ... maybe push to Tuesday to get everyone aligned.
15:35:04 <pkra> mgylling: that would be good to get IDPF ppl in.
15:35:21 <pkra> ... some distance between publication and first blog post doesn't seem a problem.
15:35:38 <mgylling> q?
15:35:45 <Karen> Action: Karen to lead messaging effort
15:35:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - Lead messaging effort [on Karen Myers - due 2015-10-19].
15:35:53 <pkra> mgylling: anything else?
15:36:05 <NickRuffilo> Scribenick: NickRuffilo
15:36:06 <pkra> ... Karen: will we send it to IG list?
15:36:14 <pkra> Karen: yes. Feedback would be very helpful.
15:36:29 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "If there is nothing else on outreach - we'll move on with the agenda"
15:36:29 <mgylling>  https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Oct_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details#Schedule
15:36:37 <ivan> Topic: F2F agenda
15:37:00 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "Agenda for TPAC - which I cannot attend."
15:37:35 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "We have an agenda.  If you're able to call in (might be middle of night for you) but it would be great."
15:39:01 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "There are some requests for meetings, but some of the key people will not be there so it wouldn't make sense.  Jake Archibald will be there, so maybe we'll have a session with him.  What I've wanted to talk about was: 1) If you're area of focus is on the agenda, we need to talk about what we'll be doing on the meeting.  I don't want to just 'chat' at TPAC.  Either in the wiki or the
15:39:01 <NickRuffilo> slides.  On 2nd day, 8pm EST (if you can call in) - nick you're on agenda"
15:39:10 <mgylling> q?
15:39:35 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "We have some notes from TAG on how the packaging dovetails with the PWP..."
15:40:17 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "That would fill in well with the Thursday afternoon discussion and the publishing object model.  We may need soemthing at the end of the day on Open Licensing Model - which is a reopen of the rights language
15:40:42 <mgylling> q?
15:40:46 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "We need to set some goals, but we do have some wiggle room.  Thoughts?"
15:41:19 <NickRuffilo> Makrus: "One thing mentioned is that maybe we should have a session on updating the group on "
15:41:43 <NickRuffilo> Makrus: "Update people on Epub 3.1 work..."
15:42:09 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "There will be many guests that won't really know what's goign on with it - so it will be good to have that on a spot on thursday."
15:42:22 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Dave you're doing Houdini on thursday morning? "
15:42:35 <NickRuffilo> Dave: "Not necessarily - if there is something you need me around for, I'm happy to attend."
15:42:47 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "I gave an hour for CSS is that sufficient?"
15:42:49 <NickRuffilo> Dave: "yes"
15:43:22 <NickRuffilo> markus: "While speaking about epub, on the 2nd day you have a 10:45 'identifiers' is that internal or some other group.  Ivan is going to invent a new identifier that is going to solve everything"
15:43:35 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "We are tasked with some identification updates."
15:44:01 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "To have an update there, specifically on something like that..."
15:44:18 <HeatherF> I know we mentioned it at the beginning of the call, but it's _really_ hard to hear Ivan.
15:44:22 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "To update on the face-2-face in that session would be useful.  10:45 is way to early for you Markus."
15:45:01 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "You shouldn't require me.  You have Dave and Tzviya - so you should have enough."
15:45:20 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "I have all the sessions in, but they may move around."
15:45:41 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Do we want to talk about the REL attribute?  It's exciting."
15:46:05 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "I'm trying to understtand who owns it"
15:47:08 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Up to today, the HTML5 WG sort-of-owns the 'rel' attribute, but it's one of those unclear stuffs.  What the HTML5 document includes is a small amount of REL attributes that are assigned.  There is a wiki-page on the microformats where you can register a REL value.  I have no idea and didn't find out if it actually works or if anyone cares.  It may be ill defined..."
15:47:40 <dauwhe> Another possibly canonical source of link relationships: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5988#section-6.2
15:47:59 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "We don't have a meeting with the new web platform working group - and they probably have bigger issues to work on, but we may want to bring it up on the side with them - to figure out what happened.  We will have a meeting where Charles will be there, no?  The ARIA meeting?"
15:48:04 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "I hope so"
15:48:23 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "He was co-chairing web-apps, but now I'm not sure."
15:49:08 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "We should schedule the meeting in advnace."
15:49:24 <mgylling> q?
15:49:43 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "As mentioned in the past - we will have the opportunity to call in.  What the next step in is to start with a more detailed agenda
15:51:47 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Dave can lead the meeting on the Publication Object Model."
15:52:22 <dauwhe> s/Publications Object Model/CSS/
15:52:24 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "I'm updating the agenda - so see the updated agenda."
15:52:33 <ivan> Chairs of the Web Platform WG: Adrian Bateman, Art Barstow, Charles McCathie Nevile, Léonie Watson
15:52:50 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "For identifiers, Ivan do you want to say more what you want to cover?"
15:53:57 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "What I wanted to say was how the internal references - how it will deal with external URL - how do we solve that you have an Identifier that is either a URL or the web-space, and something on your own machine."
15:54:54 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "What sort of fragment identifiers we need - and what are our position on those.  What is the role of CFI?  Is there a role for it?  Maybe the fine-text work with a URL version as well.  These are some of the issues running around without any structure."
15:55:41 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "I think Luc was also involved in some of the identifier issues."
15:55:43 <NickRuffilo> Luc: "Yes"
15:55:59 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "If you can send your views/ideas - that would be helpful."
15:56:12 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "We have a meeting with ARIA - so I'll set up the agenda for that one."
15:56:17 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "When do we plan to finish?"
15:56:22 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: 4:30pm Friday"
15:56:29 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Just wondering if it was OK for you"
15:56:33 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "It is OK for me."
15:56:37 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "OK"
15:56:39 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Ok"
15:56:49 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Anything else on the agenda?"
15:56:55 <NickRuffilo> Markus: "No"
15:57:51 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "We seems to have some bots that try to get a hold of webex calls.  These un identified dial-ins.  somebody conjectured that they essentially use the webex to dial-out free to various numbers, we have no clue.  What we may do is change the password for this call one of these days."
15:58:23 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "There is a password, but I rarely get asked for it."
15:58:54 <NickRuffilo> Thanks and bye!
15:58:55 <laudrain> laudrain has left #dpub
15:59:02 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
15:59:02 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:59:02 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been duga, Markus_Gylling, Tzviya_Siegman, Dave_Cramer, Peter, Krautzberger, Heather_Flanagan, Alan, Stearns, Karen, Noel_Tanner, ivan
15:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:59:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/12-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
15:59:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:59:11 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/12-dpub-actions.rdf :
15:59:11 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Karen to lead messaging effort [1]
15:59:11 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/12-dpub-irc#T15-35-45