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16:57:54 <clapierre> present Charles LaPierre
16:59:22 <clapierre> Meeting: Weekly DPUB A11Y TF Meeting
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17:02:44 <clapierre> Topic: feedback about the extended description for PF
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17:03:03 <dkaplan3> present+ deborah_kaplan
17:03:24 <clapierre> charles, read the document in Dropbox and my question is what about "Custom Elements"
17:04:46 <clapierre> Deborah, we haven't added anything just filled in what PF gave us.
17:05:50 <clapierre> Charles, I think its important to include this but we may not have to fill it all out we could get Mark to help since he is trying to push this new tech forward as a viable option to extended long desc and alternative representation of image content.
17:06:29 <clapierre> mia, we need to get this by next Friday
17:08:33 <clapierre> mia, can you ask Mark to get us this for us
17:09:13 <clapierre> charles, sure I will reach out to Mark to get this info and give him all the row headers and he can get us the info.
17:10:31 <clapierre> deborah, do you all agree on the writeup on discoverable, skippable etc…
17:10:46 <clapierre> mia, yeah I think this all make sense.
17:11:06 <clapierre> deborah, I can do a 2nd pass then give it to Tzviya to send out to the larger group.
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17:11:44 <clapierre> …, I am not sure about SVG, and imageMap when did this become a player??
17:12:13 <clapierre> …, also not sure about webAnnotations.
17:12:34 <clapierre> charles, I think webAnnotations could be a viable solution once its all fleshed out.
17:12:55 <clapierre> deborah, but we only have the public working draft to go on.
17:13:48 <clapierre> mia, present technology should be one column and there may be future work which could be a * next to work that is not in reality right now
17:14:42 <clapierre> mia, we need to be clear on is this based on "Current" technology not "Pending / Working Drafts" etc…
17:15:36 <clapierre> we are on a webinar want to join us?
17:19:45 <clapierre> present+ doug Sheppards
17:21:18 <shepazu> s/Sheppards/schepers
17:21:52 <clapierre> Not restricted to images
17:21:52 <clapierre> Note from Dpub: For clarity, we suggest rephrasing to "Works for non-image content"
17:23:01 <clapierre> doug, yes for Annotations and SVG
17:24:01 <clapierre> …, SVG has always had text as text, it does not have structured text as data , but with ARIA we could make SVG more like HTML
17:24:38 <clapierre> …, SVG is not only about graphics, text is been a part since begining, and also has metadata
17:24:56 <clapierre> …, structured documents from SVG but may not be best use of it
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17:25:26 <clapierre> …, SVG should not be used for rich document structures, but you could if you wanted.
17:25:40 <clapierre> mia, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
17:26:11 <clapierre> doug, the question is can any AT interact with the structured content so that it is meaningful for the user
17:26:46 <clapierre> …, yes in SVG but for highly structured content it may not be best sutied
17:27:22 <clapierre> …, SVG has links, text, nesting.  you just can't say this is a paragraph, list or block quote… it depends on how much richness
17:27:50 <clapierre> …, really depends on what you need.
17:28:12 <clapierre> …, uses ARIA roles exclusively
17:28:38 <clapierre> Can hold rich content
17:29:06 <clapierre> doug, yes for both
17:29:07 <clapierre> Same technique for different objects
17:30:04 <clapierre> doug, if you are trying to say this is a replacement for describedAt…
17:30:21 <clapierre> deborah, yes but this is for any object not just for images.
17:30:32 <clapierre> doug, I am not sure.
17:30:38 <clapierre> Reusable in multiple content Note from Dpub: "contexts"?
17:31:08 <clapierre> deborah, use case: 15 text books use the same description external
17:31:16 <clapierre> …, update it once
17:31:37 <clapierre> doug, SVG is not suitable , Web Annotations yes.
17:31:40 <clapierre> Description clearly associated with object
17:31:59 <clapierre> Clear which associated object is the description
17:32:22 <clapierre> doug, Web Annotations yes: SVG no
17:32:32 <clapierre> Not bloat primary content page
17:33:00 <clapierre> doug, Web Annotations Yes not bloat, SVG no
17:33:06 <clapierre> Exposed meaningfully to the accessibility APIs and UA
17:33:28 <clapierre> doug, yes but AT would have to support webAnnotations
17:34:04 <clapierre> …, N/A for SVG
17:34:18 <clapierre> Able to pass structured content to an additional specialized user agent
17:35:42 <clapierre> deborah, here is a map and here is a 3d image of it… or charml
17:36:15 <clapierre> doug, depends on modality.. if your looking for footnote etc… you wouldn't use SVG and would use web Annotations
17:36:58 <clapierre> deborah, this requirement was pushed by George…
17:39:24 <clapierre> doug, SVG satisfy this.  I would want there to be a link in there for a 3D image file.  describedAt couldn't but could bring you to a page with multiple formats.
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17:40:43 <clapierre> …, so I am not sure this requirement make sense if describedAt can't handle this it may not make sense to force this requirement on other potential options.
17:41:45 <clapierre> Discoverable meaningfully by any current AT.
17:42:17 <clapierre> doug, webAnnotations No.  SVG yes
17:42:25 <clapierre> …, depending on AT
17:42:42 <clapierre> deborah, but SVG doesn't offer outside of ARIA?
17:42:58 <clapierre> doug, title element, and description element
17:43:42 <clapierre> …, not sure if at supports this, would have to test
17:45:51 <clapierre> …, descriptions is hidden by default
17:45:52 <clapierre> Skippable meaningfully by any current AT
17:46:43 <clapierre> doug, svg wrapping bitmat "clown technique" not sure what is the thought behind this….
17:47:16 <clapierre> deborah, must test. the skippable
17:47:35 <clapierre> Able to be accessed without using a screen reader in any current UA
17:47:40 <clapierre> deborah, will test
17:47:46 <clapierre> Hideable from the visual meaningfully by any current AT
17:47:55 <clapierre> deborah, will test
17:48:19 <clapierre> doug, if webAnnotations takes off this will be a HUGE boom for Accessibility!
17:49:40 <clapierre> …, one of the first things they are spec'ing out is find text  "fuzzy matching" etc…
17:51:51 <clapierre> deborah, I will put this in our GitHub repo. and will incorporate these changes and do it right now.
17:52:34 <clapierre> s/clown/clown car
17:53:09 <clapierre> present+ Mia Lipner
17:53:45 <clapierre> scribe: clapierre
17:54:26 <clapierre> deborah, I really wanted to know if SVG should be used for all of this or not…
17:54:47 <clapierre> mia, sounded like it "could technically" be done but probably not the best use for SVG
17:56:10 <shepazu> SVG is a different technique, not a replacement for describedBy/At
17:56:27 <dkaplan3> s/boom/boon
17:57:48 <shepazu> if you presuppose the solution is describedBy/At, then you're not considering equally (or more) accessible possibilities done via SVG
17:59:38 <dkaplan3> agreed, shepazu, which is really the point of this document. DPub accessibility wanted to pull back from saying "could we have this feature" and reframe it as "we have this set of requirements we need met." So this matrix we are creating is to compare all of the proposed solutions with the requirements we have.
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18:09:43 <clapierre> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:09:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/10/09-DPUB-minutes.html clapierre
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