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08:00:17 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld/wiki/London_Kick_Off_meeting Notes from the meeting
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08:20:17 <phila> https://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld/wiki/London_Kick_Off_meeting#Structure
08:20:58 <Angel> Angel has joined #ceo-ld
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08:21:06 <jtandy> phila: notes that we're working in plenary to write our report in note form at the address above
08:21:32 <jtandy> ... so there will be limited notes in the IRC channel from this morning's session
08:27:08 <chunming> [discussion on principles]
08:30:21 <chunming> scribe: chunming
08:31:12 <chunming> GB: be open, contributing something distinctive to W3C/OGC WG
08:31:22 <chunming> ... No wheel reinvention. Something should be deliverable/actionable, not an academic exercise
08:31:28 <chunming> ... minimum cost
08:32:33 <chunming> jtandy: focusing on data sharing, not links between satallite and station.
08:33:01 <chunming> Phil: [show HTML5 spec]
08:33:18 <chunming> ... overtime to produce a document.
08:33:51 <chunming> ... another example is Spatial data on the web use case & req doc
08:34:00 <chunming> ... we have formal snapshot publicaitons
08:34:28 <chunming> ... this is a step of publishing a formal doc, WG could produce any number of WD
08:34:49 <chunming> ... hope this group will have a kind of recommendation
08:35:05 <chunming> ... implement, test. we need at least two full impl for everything
08:35:48 <chunming> ... when you can improve that, comments and answers, people satisfied with the feedback
08:35:51 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #ceo-ld
08:36:17 <chunming> ... when prove that, we could call director, to push WD to Last Call (we have evidence, impl, we done)
08:36:31 <chunming> ... then we need to push to W3C membership, as well as OGC
08:36:47 <chunming> jtandy: there is a e-vote process at OGC
08:36:54 <chunming> ... simple mojority
08:37:11 <chunming> phlia: similar process in w3c.
08:37:31 <chunming> ... then we had a recommendation, OGC call standards.
08:37:54 <chunming> ... if ISO wants to, it could take our results.
08:38:11 <jtandy> s/mojority/majority/
08:38:33 <chunming> phila: the doc are copyright in w3c's 4 hosts, and OGC
08:39:09 <chunming> ... we have strict site policy, use for free, and make sure there are no patent issue in the document
08:39:42 <chunming> ... that's the process.
08:41:02 <chunming> jianhui: each member from diff organization join the group, how to show the contributions in spec?
08:41:29 <chunming> phila: you can join in represents you yourself, or your organization.
08:42:08 <chunming> ... but the organization make the decision on IPR issue.
08:46:14 <chunming> [moving to Issues section ] https://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld/wiki/London_Kick_Off_meeting#Issues
08:46:36 <chunming> ... how do you describe coverage data
08:46:53 <chunming> ... how do we use the geospatial data
08:48:18 <chunming> ... in term of access, discovery is important
08:48:30 <chunming> ... the schema.org, if you want to be discoveryed
08:49:22 <chunming> jtandy: schema.org vs. w3c, members are not fully overlaped
08:49:29 <chunming> ... http://schema.org
08:50:07 <chunming> ... Schema.org is a collaborative, community activity with a mission to create, maintain, and promote schemas for structured data on the Internet, on web pages, in email messages, and beyond.
08:50:08 <jtandy> s/vs. w3c, members are not fully overlaped/ and W3C have overlapping membership/
08:51:00 <chunming> ... inacurate metadata, and in-complete metadata is harmful for search engine
08:52:53 <chunming> ... schema.org makes you to provide more metadata
08:53:19 <chunming> ... so search engine will get more infor from your page, that's the incent
08:54:33 <chunming> ... therefore, if you want your data to be found, you could use schema.org
08:54:50 <chunming> jtandy: i do agree the idea.
08:55:28 <chunming> phila: schema.org is extensible, we can extend it.
08:56:11 <chunming> ... we could discuss  in w3c community group.
08:56:25 <chunming> ... you can provide extensions based on proofing the needs
08:56:55 <chunming> phlia: need to access a subset, slices
08:57:14 <chunming> ... then we need to represent the data
08:57:26 <chunming> ... RDF data cube, csv, geotiff, and other ways
08:57:38 <chunming> ... number of choices
08:57:56 <chunming> MaikRiechert: is datacube support ordered data
08:58:21 <chunming> phila: yes. it does.
08:59:42 <chunming> jtandy: you may think of using data cube to describe data slices, or any of format like geotiff.
09:00:01 <chunming> jianhui: how to use RDF to describe data gradularity?
09:00:09 <chunming> ... we can use rdf to describe some slices
09:00:38 <chunming> ... then it will be useful, but if we describe data in detail, we need to cut big data into slices
09:00:48 <chunming> phlia: slices as images?
09:00:52 <chunming> jianhui: yes
09:01:37 <chunming> phila: geospatial data could be described as linked data
09:01:59 <chunming> ... a wikipage: well-known_text
09:02:24 <chunming> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-known_text
09:02:47 <chunming> Well-known text (WKT) is a text markup language for representing vector geometry objects on a map, spatial reference systems of spatial objects and transformations between spatial reference systems.
09:03:10 <jtandy> (the RDF Data Cube could be used to describe the structure of a multi-dimensional dataset, 2d slices of this dataset could be encoded as imagery, e.g. GeoTIFF, that are referenced from the Data Cube description ... I called this a hybrid approach)
09:03:37 <chunming> jtandy: APIs?
09:04:20 <chunming> GB: the possibility of doing test?
09:04:30 <jtandy> (the hybrid approach suggested above needs to be verified ... I've not seen this used in practice)
09:05:07 <chunming> MaikRiechert: for MELODIES,  @@@
09:05:41 <chunming> ... if you define RDF describing coverge data
09:06:09 <chunming> ... for MELODIES, for small subsets of data, it is ok
09:06:27 <chunming> ... but if we talk about big data, what's the users of the RDF data?
09:06:54 <chunming> ... even if we just expose it like that, it is still in big size.
09:07:28 <chunming> phila: one test would be, is it ok for a big data subset to do that?
09:07:48 <chunming> ... would need a usecase like this.
09:08:49 <chunming> MaikRiechert: there would be a query like , giving a tempreture, and get back of all the points with the temprature, it would be a large datasets (as result datasets).
09:08:56 <chunming> ... it depends how you use the data
09:09:35 <chunming> ... we could do statistics, i don't ever find a view on using that.
09:09:39 <chunming> ... that's my concern/
09:10:58 <chunming> jtandy: are people taking satallite data  as a big set, and processing it locally to provide services?
09:11:50 <chunming> ... this is interesting, not providing a coverage data to  browser to show something, but tell me the possible coverages under a condition.
09:12:06 <chunming> MaikRiechert: some need server processing
09:12:59 <chunming> ... but not only server processing, there're cases to integrate different data (coverage data, measure data) and calculate not in server.
09:14:41 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #ceo-ld
09:16:01 <phila> action: PhilA to ask BillR about potential use cases for subsets of a coverage
09:16:46 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
09:16:46 <chunming> jtandy: there are js implentations, you have a online software agent, you may expose other services. you have a coverage space, the API could use coverage data, may query to other dataset relevant.
09:16:55 <phila> meeting; CEO-LD Kick off day 2
09:17:18 <chunming> phila: we need usecases you will happy with :-)
09:17:42 <chunming> ... the possible tests.
09:18:17 <chunming> MaikRiechert: observe property, @@@
09:18:38 <chunming> phila: but you don't do it in the browser, you do it in serverside
09:18:52 <chunming> MaikRiechert: think about Json-LD
09:19:08 <chunming> ... describe lots of things you don't need
09:21:35 <chunming> jtandy: there are subset of cases, we use code coverage data in the format.
09:21:42 <chunming> ... we need discovery what in the coverage
09:22:01 <chunming> ... and in some of cases, we need to download the dataset and handle that.
09:22:27 <chunming> MaikRiechert: for MELODIES project, scientist may just download the datasets.
09:22:57 <chunming> ... then may link to some apis not in RDF form.
09:23:30 <chunming> phila: need to find @@ to have an example.
09:23:45 <chunming> phila: scalability, is another issue.
09:24:56 <phila> -> https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=56866
09:25:16 <chunming> ... open search geo and time extensions (from OGC)
09:27:33 <chunming> jtandy: in terms of coverage,you need the query related to a area( 2d geo extension)
09:28:11 <phila> jtandy: Geo temporal Open Search only works in 2D. but there's an overlap in terms of what it returns
09:29:12 <chunming> phila: that looks like a potential start point for this. (simple query)
09:29:45 <chunming> jtandy: if we get more layers, 2d geo extension is not enough. need to be extended
09:30:02 <chunming> ... rfc 7111
09:30:09 <phila> -> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7111 RFC 7111
09:30:23 <chunming> URI Fragment Identifiers for the text/csv Media Type
09:30:45 <chunming> These fragment identifiers make it possible to refer to    parts of a text/csv MIME entity identified by row, column, or cell.    Fragment identification can use single items or ranges.
09:31:03 <phila> http://example.com/data.csv#row=5-7
09:31:31 <chunming> jtandy: this could help you refer to part of the data
09:31:37 <phila> Again, that's only 2D, i.e. a single table
09:32:15 <chunming> MaikRiechert: how about the subset in native coordinates
09:34:42 <chunming> chunming: this goes back to the balancing between serverside and browser
09:35:19 <chunming> jtandy: lots of the geospatial data services provide this kind of complex mappings (into native coordinates).
09:35:59 <chunming> Adina: the image come from satellite is just pixels
09:36:34 <chunming> ... the processing will choose which coordinates will be used
09:41:48 <chunming_> chunming_ has joined #ceo-ld
09:42:51 <chunming_> jtandy: CEO-LD should provide a view on Issue-28 - whether SDW WG should define a default CRS
09:43:06 <chunming_> http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/28
09:45:00 <chunming_> rrsagent, draft minutes
09:45:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-ceo-ld-minutes.html chunming_
09:45:26 <chunming_> rrsagent, make log public
09:45:50 <chunming_> present+ chunming
09:45:55 <chunming_> present+ phila
09:46:17 <chunming_> present+ jianhui
09:46:23 <chunming_> present+ jitao
09:46:31 <chunming_> present+ MaikRiechert
09:46:36 <chunming_> present+ jtandy
09:47:16 <chunming> present+ adina
09:47:35 <chunming> present+ geoffrey_boulton
09:49:30 <chunming> jtandy: what you heard of people using the data
09:56:12 <phila> GB: Pitches idea of gamification of coverages usage
09:56:43 <chunming> scribe: phila
09:56:50 <phila> Adina: Talked about software packages they use.
09:57:14 <phila> ... ESRI has an image handling group within ArcGIS
09:57:41 <phila> ... There are others and several open source options
09:58:29 <phila> Adina: Commercial missions are chagning from brining the data to the people to bringing the people to the data. Creative environments whetre you can access the data, play with it and do stuff there.
09:58:38 <phila> ... And you start paying when you have created your product.
09:58:44 <phila> ... That's a trend aming the commercial services
09:58:51 <phila> scribe: phila
09:59:04 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
09:59:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-ceo-ld-minutes.html phila
09:59:28 <phila> Adina: ENVI and PCI are the otehr commercial packages we tend to use
09:59:53 <phila> ... There's one called Cloud EO funded by Russia
10:00:56 <phila> ... different packages for different types of data (radar, imagery)
10:01:18 <phila> action: Adina to provide list of relevant software packages
10:17:40 <chunming> present+ chunming, phila, jianhui, jitao, MaikRiechert, jtandy, adina, geoffrey_boulton
10:18:02 <chunming> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:18:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-ceo-ld-minutes.html chunming
10:18:37 <chunming> Present+ chunming, phila, jianhui, jitao, MaikRiechert, jtandy, adina, geoffrey_boulton
10:21:32 <MaikRiechert> MaikRiechert has joined #ceo-ld
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10:23:47 <jtandy> scribe: Jeremy Tandy
10:23:54 <jtandy> scribenick: jtandy
10:24:12 <jtandy> Topic: Next steps
10:24:27 <jtandy> phila: We need to talk about
10:24:37 <jtandy> ... i) creating impact in china
10:24:50 <jtandy> ... ii) the capacity of this group
10:24:59 <jtandy> ... iii) TPAC in Sapporo
10:25:10 <jtandy> ... iv) our next F2F in Beijing
10:25:47 <jtandy> phila: can chunming talk about the F2F meeting
10:26:20 <jtandy> chunming: one constraint is to hold before the W3C Advisory Committee meeting
10:26:48 <jtandy> [discussion]: concludes week of 29 Feb?
10:27:24 <jtandy> Denise: notes that mid-March is bad for OGC- TC meeting in Washington and World Bank Land & Poverty conference
10:27:49 <jtandy> phila: China is 'closed' (more of less) for the Spring Festival (?)
10:28:02 <chunming> Spring Festival Feb 8.
10:28:06 <jtandy> jianhui: Spring Festival is early next year
10:28:39 <jtandy> [discussion] concludes that w/c 22 Feb is workable
10:28:56 <jtandy> (general agreement)
10:29:02 <chunming> plan 1: Feb 22-23, 2016
10:29:13 <jtandy> Denise: can we avoid 24 Feb please
10:29:13 <chunming> plan 2: Feb 25-26, 2016
10:29:37 <jtandy> phila: (looks at his diary) ...
10:30:00 <jtandy> Denise: that week is Mobile World Congress
10:30:14 <jtandy> ... can we go back to w/c 29Feb?
10:30:26 <jtandy> GB: early that week please
10:30:43 <jtandy> ... RDA plenary is 1-3 March in Japan
10:31:23 <jtandy> phila: so - 2-day meeting in Beihang University, Monday 29 Feb, Tue 1 March
10:31:48 <jtandy> GB: are we prevented from meeting on Sunday?
10:32:21 <jtandy> jianhui: good to avoid the RDA conference
10:32:37 <jtandy> phila: Sunday 28- Monday 29th
10:32:58 <jtandy> ... then people can leave to go RDA plenary (in Tokyo)
10:33:23 <jtandy> Denise: (looks online) and notes that RDA starts on 29th
10:33:49 <jtandy> phila: RDA and CEO-LD together makes for easier travel request
10:34:48 <jtandy> RESOLUTION: next F2F meeting Sunday 28-Monday 29 Feb, hosted by Beihang University
10:35:19 <jtandy> phila: asks Jianhui if he can attend TPAC?
10:35:37 <jtandy> jianhui: not enough time to get visa
10:36:14 <chunming> TPAC 2015: http://www.chinaw3c.org/member-meetings.html#tpac
10:36:21 <jtandy> ... because previous meeting in Paris (?)
10:36:29 <jtandy> phila: (describes TPAC)
10:36:48 <jtandy> ... 2-day working group + 1-day plenary + 2-day working group
10:37:09 <chunming> http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/Overview.html
10:37:10 <jtandy> Spatial Data on the Web meets on the monday and tuesday
10:37:39 <jtandy> phila: SDW will spend (at least) half day on the coverages deliverable
10:37:50 <jtandy> ... you can attend other groups too as observer
10:38:05 <jtandy> ... it's not free; USD85/day
10:38:16 <jtandy> ... travel is not funded by CEO-LD
10:38:22 <jtandy> ... so it will be expensive
10:38:57 <jtandy> ... If you are going, please book _NOW_ as hotels prices will increase very soon
10:39:37 <jtandy> phila: W3C Members meet 2x per year ... at TPAC and at the Advisory Committee (AC)
10:39:48 <jtandy> ... Working Groups meet as often as they need
10:40:06 <jtandy> jianhui: If you're an AC member do you still have to pay
10:40:18 <jtandy> phila: yes - W3C is not a rich organisation
10:40:52 <jtandy> phila: next year TPAC is in Lisbon, Portugal
10:42:56 <jtandy> jianhui: can we invite more participants?
10:43:30 <jtandy> phila: yes - subject to OGC & W3C membership criteria
10:43:42 <jtandy> phila: the budget is constrained
10:44:38 <jtandy> GB: the current budget covers four attendees from UK ... but I'd be surprised if we are limited to four in reality
10:45:14 <jtandy> phila: Next sub-topic ... how do we increase the impact of this work in China
10:45:31 <jtandy> ... we have a small amount of time and money to make progress
10:45:35 <jtandy> ... but what next?
10:46:04 <jtandy> ... we've talked today about Gamification, commercial interest [and GEO etc.]
10:46:12 <jtandy> ... but how does this work in China?
10:46:44 <jtandy> chunming: we could have a local meeting in China once we return to introduce more people to these topics
10:46:56 <jtandy> ... we can identify other people to get involved
10:47:07 <jtandy> ... and introduce them into the meetings
10:47:23 <jtandy> jianhui: impact? do you mean funding agencies?
10:47:55 <jtandy> phila: in time, yes ... but the UK Foreign Office want to increase collaboration between UK and China
10:48:09 <jtandy> ... in this case focused on exploitation (?) of satellite data
10:48:16 <chunming> Guo Huadong
10:48:29 <jtandy> jianhui: cites a potential contact
10:48:38 <chunming> general director of RADI
10:48:39 <jtandy> (see above)
10:48:53 <chunming> Li Wei (former president of Beihang University)
10:49:08 <jtandy> GB: lists other people who he knows who could be influential
10:49:41 <jtandy> ... there are 4 or 5 people at an influential level in CAS and Universities who we can engage
10:49:53 <jtandy> ... once we have a plan in plain english
10:50:11 <jtandy> ... we can think about developing the rhetoric about this project
10:50:25 <jtandy> ... stating the benefits- including economic
10:51:00 <jtandy> jianhui: can we make a high-level haf-day work shop in Beijing ahead of the F2F meeting?
10:51:15 <jtandy> GB: could we get president of CAS to host such a meeting?
10:51:31 <jtandy> jianhui: on return to Beijing, I will need to coordinate [...]
10:52:12 <jtandy> Denise: from government side, who are the key people to engage?
10:52:20 <chunming> s/[...]/head of CAS, as well as Ministry of Science & Technology (MOST)
10:53:25 <jtandy> Denise: notes that UN GGIM is co-chaired by China ... would be good ensure that we coordinate there
10:53:42 <jtandy> ... and by Government I really mean Public Service
10:54:16 <jtandy> Denise: GGIM has regional groups ... see GGIM AP (regional group for Asia Pacific)
10:54:27 <jtandy> ... that would be the group to engage with in China
10:55:19 <jtandy> Adina: 21AT is a company in China that would be worth engaging (21st Century Aerospace Technology)
10:55:43 <jtandy> GB: Invitation letters are best issued from CODATA
10:55:59 <jtandy> phila: From the chinese office CODATA?
10:56:11 <jtandy> GB: likely from Simon H
10:56:36 <jtandy> GB: the key is that this is not just a show case- but an awareness exercise requesting support
10:57:02 <phila> jtandy: We (met Office) has extensive relations with Chinese met office and CAS etc.
10:57:18 <phila> ... I'm not involved with them but I know the colleagues who are
10:57:37 <phila> ... Newton project (coordinated by Royal Society?)
10:57:45 <phila> ... Working on science expertise, not technology expertise
10:58:15 <phila> ... I note that there are 9political) constraints on exchange of tech expertise
10:58:19 <phila> s/9/(
10:59:24 <jtandy> phila: so we have a long list of people to invite- but, right now, no strong reason for their attendance
10:59:43 <jtandy> GB: so the sequence is:
10:59:59 <jtandy> ... 1) get our report out - including the high level message
11:00:23 <jtandy> ... 2) use that as the basis for engaging high-level invitees from China
11:00:44 <jtandy> jianhui: then we can organise the first half-day event
11:01:13 <jtandy> chunming: how do the half-day and two-day events relate?
11:01:26 <jtandy> GB: the half-day event happens first
11:01:35 <jtandy> ... best to have them in the same location
11:01:48 <jtandy> ... [for continuity]
11:02:34 <jtandy> Phila: moves onto the next subtopic
11:02:51 <jtandy> ... what will we have achieved by the F2F meeting in Feb?
11:03:16 <jtandy> ... all this group is chartered to do is to write a document as input to SDW
11:03:27 <jtandy> ... we need to keep expectations low
11:03:45 <jtandy> ... but we also have an offer from Maik to build something tangible
11:03:53 <jtandy> GB: what could be built?
11:04:06 <jtandy> MaikRiechert: depends on alignment with MELODIES
11:04:18 <jtandy> phila: so what are you building for MELODIES?
11:05:34 <jtandy> MaikRiechert: lists a few things ... WCS-like APIs, JSON-encoding, harmonising the coverage metadata
11:05:40 <jtandy> MaikRiechert: [...]
11:06:56 <jtandy> phila: Thinking of Catalogues [...] using an OGC CSW, do you have one page per dataset?
11:07:34 <jtandy> MaikRiechert: we want to use DCAT in MELODIES - setting up a CKAN instance that uses the GeoDCAT and RDF capabilities
11:07:58 <jtandy> phila: that alone makes the data more discoverable - answering Adina's primary concern
11:08:08 <jtandy> MaikRiechert: yes- that's a minimum that we need
11:08:24 <jtandy> phila: so- we're limited by time (Feb 2016)
11:08:52 <jtandy> GB: the key concern is to communicate why we're doing [this]
11:09:29 <jtandy> ... we need to focus on [where the value is] to people remote from us rather than impressing ourselves
11:09:47 <jtandy> GB: is it right that this work will also enhance MELODIES?
11:10:05 <jtandy> MaikRiechert: yes
11:10:23 <jtandy> phila: and this will be good for the MELODIES product to increase impact
11:11:05 <jtandy> MaikRiecherdt: I can do the catalogue stuff
11:11:41 <jtandy> ... when the metadata is ingested into the catalogue it needs to link to the data
11:11:57 <jtandy> ... describing the API or media type etc. for the data
11:12:15 <jtandy> ... I want to use a new feature of CKAN to provide a "preview" of the data
11:12:24 <jtandy> ... in the catalogue
11:12:35 <jtandy> ... This is realistic by February
11:12:55 <jtandy> The question of how to represent the data is a bit more tricky
11:13:24 <jtandy> MaikReicherdt: The question of how to represent the data is a bit more tricky
11:14:11 <jtandy> phila: In semantic web you can refer to stuff that doesn't exist ... you can talk about subsets even if you can't [directly] access the subset resource
11:14:38 <MaikRiechert> MaikRiechert has joined #ceo-ld
11:14:41 <jtandy> phila: asks Jitao if he has capacity to write the document for CEO-LD
11:15:27 <jtandy> ... and then to incorporate that into the Coverages deliverable for the SDW WG
11:15:48 <jtandy> ... we want to get an advance draft of that document by end March
11:16:02 <jtandy> ... we have to be able to show something;
11:16:28 <jtandy> ... the best way is to show the CEO-LD output doc, and then how this is used in the broader SDW deliverable
11:17:13 <jtandy> jitao: indicates that he has capacity as a co-editor to work on this document
11:17:45 <jtandy> phila: we may be able to get another editor (a third one) if the need arises
11:18:01 <jtandy> phila: logistics? do we need telecos?
11:18:16 <jtandy> GB: email until the need for a telco arises
11:18:21 <jtandy> [general agreement]
11:18:23 <phila> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ceo-ld/ Mailing list
11:18:40 <jtandy> phila: I have set up a group mailing list - but this has not been used yet
11:19:01 <jtandy> ... everyone is on the list - except Adina ... would you like to be?
11:19:37 <jtandy> Adina: yes please- with caveat that it won't be a massive engagement
11:19:55 <jtandy> phila: notes that the list is publically visible
11:20:17 <jtandy> ... you can get to this email list via the wiki
11:20:50 <jtandy> [Phila spams everyone with a test email]
11:22:17 <jtandy> [oops- mailing list needs some work]
11:22:30 <jtandy> ACTION: phila to add everyone to the mailing list
11:25:02 <jtandy> phila: any other tasks?
11:25:20 <jtandy> GB: yes- to get a feel for ongoing funding [...]
11:26:08 <jtandy> ... earlier this year the responses to this proposal were enthusiastic, now I think they would be even more enthusiastic because we have something more tangible
11:26:25 <jtandy> ... this is based on the report from this meeting
11:26:30 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:26:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-ceo-ld-minutes.html phila
11:26:34 <phila> topic: Cross referenceing
11:26:46 <phila> jtandy: We need to focus on... on the kick off meeting list
11:26:47 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/ceo-ld/wiki/London_Kick_Off_meeting#Report
11:26:59 <phila> ... I'm looking under the structure section, item 3
11:27:11 <phila> ... identifiers for datasets and distributions
11:27:25 <phila> ... we need to recognise that that best practice is being defined elsewhere (DWBP)
11:27:44 <phila> ... however, we do need to make some recommendations about how to identify slices, subsets,samples etc.
11:27:47 <phila> ... How to refer to those
11:27:59 <phila> s,samples/, samples/
11:28:10 <phila> jtandy: We want to be able to talk about parts of the whole thing
11:28:23 <phila> ... How to discover the dataset - relates to what metadata is needed for that coverage
11:28:47 <phila> ... Maik will be building a catalogue based on CKAN that will eat some GeoDCAT that might be helpdul for describing the structure of hte coverage
11:29:00 <phila> MaikRiechert: Our dataset is not a coverage, it's a lot of coverages
11:29:11 <phila> ... we don't describe the metadata of an individual coveage with the same things as the collection
11:29:28 <phila> ... we don't include rthe structure
11:29:47 <phila> jtandy: I think we are going to need to make a recommendation on what structural metadata shoujld be provided
11:30:02 <phila> ... Once we've defined that, we need to determine how we're going to test that. if not MELODIES< who?
11:30:10 <phila> ... what is useful for coverage data?
11:30:28 <phila> MaikRiechert: If there's a rec from this group, how to represent metadata of a coverage, then if it's useful we'll do it in MELODIES
11:30:49 <phila> ... What you search for in our CKAN instance will be the higehr level groupings, not the individual coverages
11:31:14 <phila> jtandy: So there may be a follow on piece of work for once you;ve discovered the dataset, you can browse to an individual coverage and find out more about that.
11:31:26 <phila> MaikRiechert: The thing that's missing is how do you describe the links between coverages
11:31:35 <phila> ... If you model GeoTIFF as a coverage,
11:31:47 <phila> ... how do you link that to your collection of... in a searchable way
11:31:59 <phila> jtandy: Does that fit within the MELODIES project?
11:32:02 <phila> scribe: phila
11:32:07 <phila> MaikRiechert: Not completely sure
11:33:38 <chunming> s/rthe/the
11:33:43 <phila> action: Mark to work with MELODIES partners to spec out what can be produced and hwo it fits in with CEO-LD
11:33:51 <phila> s/Mark/Maik/
11:34:25 <phila> MaikRiechert: If the metadata is right, it should just work. (Famous last words)
11:34:57 <phila> jtandy: rather than the metadata, the coverage data itself - I think that we shojld provide a rec on the Web-friendly formats that you can use to encode coverage and when their use is sensible
11:35:15 <chunming> s/shojld/should
11:35:28 <phila> jtandy: We have had a long discussion when it is not sensible to use JSON arrays for coverage data (it's too big). Do we think we need to provide guidance on the non-Web-friendly formats
11:35:39 <phila> ... things that can't be used in a browser or other use agent
11:35:46 <phila> MaikRiechert: Just say that they exist
11:35:56 <phila> jtandy: Maybe we shoujld have a list of common formats that we see
11:36:46 <chunming> s/shoujld/should
11:37:17 <phila> jtandy: I think it would be interesting to do some work on using PROV-O to describe the processing that has been done to create the coverage
11:37:47 <phila> ... As far back as the public data allows
11:38:27 <phila> Adina: You can usually have a block diagram of the steps used
11:38:37 <phila> jtandy: That's likely to be useful
11:39:07 <phila> jtandy: we also need examples of how to describe the observation context, the observation platform etc. For that we need to Semantic Sensor Network vocab formalised
11:39:16 <phila> ... We can't start on this until SSN is under way
11:39:25 <phila> ...we Talked about using the data Quality Vocabulary
11:39:56 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-dqg.html data Quality Vocabulary
11:40:09 <phila> MaikRiechert: In CHARME they use Open Annotation Ontology
11:40:31 <phila> MaikRiechert: Not sure how they refer to a subset of a dataset
11:40:39 <phila> ... Sounds like a good use case to me
11:41:35 <phila> -> http://www.w3.org/annotation/ Web Annotation WG
11:43:35 <phila> jtandy: Last thing on the list... what APIs should look like for working with coverage data, especially for the non-expert user. e.g. get stuff by goemapping, by time, by observed property
11:43:49 <phila> ... We could start by looking at what access patterns people are using.
11:44:25 <phila> ... One of the themes in the SDW BP is exposing data through APIs and how to do that so we can wait for the broader group to make some recommendations
11:44:41 <phila> ... SO we can pick off things we can start now without trying to do everything. So for now we should talk about:
11:44:56 <phila> - The metadata for describing a coverage structure
11:45:02 <phila> - metadata for it
11:45:09 <phila> MaikRiechert: That's what you'll index
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11:45:29 <phila> jtandy: And understand how tools will use that to heklp people understand what the coverage contains
11:45:50 <phila> ... The other one we can progress with immediately is how to identify a subset of a coverage (slice, cell, region)
11:46:01 <phila> jtandy: If we can do that then we can add value straight away
11:46:13 <phila> ... That covers SSTL's priority for example
11:46:31 <phila> MaikRiechert: Can you have a DCAT dataset that contains other datasets
11:46:51 <phila> jtandy: VOID has a subset relationship]
11:46:55 <phila> s/]//
11:49:07 <phila> jtandy: Those are tangible things that we can deliver
11:49:31 <phila> MaikRiechert: Is there a definition of a coverage/ Can you have multiple range sets
11:49:33 <phila> jtandy: Yes
11:50:22 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
11:50:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-ceo-ld-minutes.html phila
11:51:39 <phila> phila: If we send a mail to the ML asking a question, who is going to answer.
11:52:40 <phila> phila: Asks for Chinese input
11:53:26 <phila> chunming: I think we can choose some of the platforms or projects to link to this
11:53:39 <phila> ... Find use cases and issues
11:54:06 <phila> MaikRiechert: How much do you use ontologies and RDF in generally
11:54:18 <phila> jianhui: We use them but we don't generally define them
11:54:36 <phila> jianhui: We use RDF to handle genomic data but not geospatial
11:55:05 <phila> ... It's possible that when I get back, my colleague in charge of system development can maybe work with Maik and do some demonstrations withy you
11:55:13 <phila> MaikRiechert: Yes, we're just experimenting with smeantics etc.
11:55:47 <phila> Meeting adjourned
11:56:07 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes
11:56:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-ceo-ld-minutes.html phila
11:57:44 <phila> meeting: CEO-LD Face to face Day 2
11:57:57 <phila> chair: PhilA
11:58:05 <phila> meeting: CEO-LD Face to face Day 2
11:58:30 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes
11:58:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-ceo-ld-minutes.html phila
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