14:08:54 RRSAgent has joined #annotation 14:08:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-annotation-irc 14:08:56 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:08:56 Zakim has joined #annotation 14:08:58 Zakim, this will be 2666 14:08:58 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:08:59 Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference 14:08:59 Date: 30 September 2015 14:13:04 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Sep/0219.html 14:13:20 fjh has changed the topic to: web annotation agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Sep/0219.html 14:13:47 Chair: Frederick Hirsch 14:14:05 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 14:14:41 Regrets+ Ray Denenberg, Rob Sanderson, Benjamin Young 14:18:30 shepazu has joined #annotation 14:49:30 fjh has joined #annotation 14:54:56 Present+ ivan 14:55:31 chrisbirk has joined #annotation 14:58:59 Jacob has joined #annotation 14:59:16 TimCole has joined #annotation 15:01:43 Present+ Tim_Cole 15:01:54 Present+ Jacob_Jett 15:02:45 Present+ Chris_Birk 15:03:23 tbdinesh has joined #annotation 15:05:07 PaoloCiccarese has joined #annotation 15:06:54 Present +TB_Dinesh 15:07:07 Present- +TB_Dinesh 15:07:15 Present+ TB_Dinesh 15:07:41 Topic: Agenda Review, Scribe Selection, Announcements 15:07:49 TPAC registration and hotel reminder: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Sep/0197.html 15:07:56 publishing moratoria: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Sep/0210.html 15:08:32 fjh: starts week of 21 15:08:47 takeshi has joined #annotation 15:08:50 shepazu: we have some time to publish 15:09:03 Topic: Minutes Approval 15:09:13 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 16 September approved, http://www.w3.org/2015/09/16-annotation-minutes.html 15:09:20 Topic: TPAC Web Annotation Agenda preparation 15:09:34 q+ 15:09:38 davis_salisbury has joined #annotation 15:09:42 fjh: we need to arrange joint meetings 15:09:47 Present+ Paolo_Ciccarese 15:09:57 present+ davis_salisbury 15:09:57 Social Web WG Joint Meeting, TAG Joint Meeting, WebApps Joint Meeting 15:10:19 q+ 15:10:21 ack shepazu 15:10:39 shepazu: primary purpose of TPAC is joint meeings with other WG 15:10:58 ... need to prioritize around this 15:11:30 ... Social Web has decided not to meet but there will be people there 15:11:43 ack ivan 15:12:14 ivan: Digital Publishing Group would like to have joint meeting, to update on projects and interest in annotation 15:12:29 Present+ Takeshi_Kanai 15:12:47 ... ??? is supposed to send email today to arrange meeting 15:13:03 s/???/Tzviya Siegman/ 15:13:20 fjh: what should we do with Social Web, common vocabulary reuse 15:14:36 fjh: schema.org and dublin core conversation? 15:14:44 ivan: they won't be at TPAC 15:15:05 fjh: can start thread re social web people at TPAC to arrange topics 15:15:35 fjh: think TAG is reasonable, will need to give material head, weren't we going to summarize the issue 15:16:33 fjh: talk about Rangefinder with WebApps, ok doug 15:16:37 shepazu: yes 15:16:53 fjh: any other joint meetings 15:17:05 s/meetings/meetings?/ 15:18:08 shepazu: social web, webapps, internationalization, digpub, webcsv 15:18:16 ivan: csv not meeting, practically don 15:18:22 s/don/done/ 15:18:49 shepazu: break out on plenary 15:19:00 fjh: yes, we should have one 15:19:09 shepazu: to let others know where we are, obtain new interest 15:19:10 fjh: yes 15:19:16 fjh: who can do this? 15:19:29 q+ 15:19:35 q+ 15:19:43 ack takeshi 15:19:43 ack TimCole 15:20:00 TimCole: where will we be by the time of TPAC, revision of Data Model in progress 15:20:17 ... subgroup to work on validation of approaches to see if annotations map well against data model 15:20:24 ... suspended since model in flux 15:20:37 ... would be good to have a stable data model at TPAC 15:21:50 PaoloCiccarese: have had email discussions, still a few things to sort out 15:22:15 ... model has been updated and looks good but more work to do including reviewing vocabularies 15:22:20 ... have told Rob can help 15:22:31 ... need to check with Rob on next steps 15:22:53 ivan: even if not perfect, should be able to discuss editors draft? 15:23:07 ... at TPAC, last week of October 15:23:54 q? 15:25:05 fjh: expect we will have published new draft in advance of TPAC, may have editors draft with updates, can plan that will have some more changes for WD later, but can discuss at TPAC 15:25:24 shepazu: have more we can talk about since last year, Robust Anchoring, new use cases etc so more done than appears 15:25:47 ... can talk about copy-edit use case for example, background for data model changes, worth sharing 15:25:58 q+ 15:26:23 ... can also talk about what is happening in industry, e.g. generalized Genius etc 15:26:29 ... plenty to talk about 15:26:32 ack TimCole 15:26:35 +1 15:27:14 TimCole: agree with that. to prepare for TPAC need to write up use cases and informal documents to explain and illustrate role 15:28:51 fjh: topics for f2F that aren't joint - Client API and what to do what, Implementation review, HTML issues, Model and List 15:29:10 fjh: draft agenda at wiki, please edit https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Meetings#Meeting_Agendas_and_Minutes 15:29:23 Topic: RangeFinder 15:29:50 shepazu: have talked with people about RangeFinder to validate 15:30:03 http://w3c.github.io/findtext/ 15:30:05 ... nature of design 15:30:40 ... originally to find any DOM range, including images etc, then simplified to text 15:30:57 ... now FindText API 15:31:22 ... more general RangeFinder might happen in future 15:31:29 ... small changes to spec in addition to name change 15:32:01 ... left old RangeFinder spec in place for historical reference 15:32:26 ... (1) internationalization and (2) return value are important 15:32:50 ... return value is now a Promise (before object with index to where in doc and weighting value) 15:33:20 ... now that score is up to the application 15:34:07 ... discussed with Hypothes.is people and decided no objective score that can be universal 15:35:28 ... Promises alternative to callbacks, went from syncronous API to async in keeping with other APIs 15:37:08 ... enables chaining of processing 15:37:23 ... enables iterations to find best match 15:37:36 uskudarli has joined #annotation 15:37:42 -> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/es6/promises/ is a general intro to promises 15:38:41 Gödel 15:38:48 ... feedback from i4n people re case folding and normalization (combining character 15:39:10 ... as in Gödel, can be written in various ways such as Goedel etc 15:39:24 ... Doug lists many ways 15:39:42 ... need to say that it is the same string, via normalization 15:39:44 ... was saying there is one way to do it 15:40:04 ... however different normalization schemes for different purposes say i4n people 15:40:09 ... have updated their spec 15:40:11 Honestly, this is the kind of string reconciliation problem that semantic web should excel at. 15:40:38 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/ character normalization draft 15:40:39 http://www.w3.org/TR/charmod-norm/ 15:40:52 q? 15:41:07 ... what are next steps? 15:41:56 fjh: are all changes in 15:42:03 shepazu: would like to make two changes 15:42:08 ... write out algorithm 15:42:35 ... have it in prose, need to be detailed 15:42:46 ... for searching and edit-distance 15:42:55 ... need to update examples to use Promises 15:43:24 ... new to Promises but found help, someone from JQuery foundation, should get this in next two weeks. 15:43:57 fjh: I am hearing that we won't have FPWD before TPAC, so maybe we should get feedback at TPAC then publish after 15:44:29 shepazu: big priority for me, will try to get done in next week 15:45:34 fjh: could do FPWD before TPAC, get better visibility, if not we can get feedback at TPAC 15:46:06 shepazu: will work to have update for next week so we can see if we can publish before TPAC 15:46:07 q? 15:46:17 fjh: this sounds good 15:46:52 shepazu: will speak on web annotations at lecture series at U of Baltimore for library community, working on presentation 15:46:57 ... would like feedback 15:47:38 ... FindText will submit talk to O'Reilly March Fluent conference, FindText API is of interest 15:47:47 ... submitted yesterday 15:48:09 http://conferences.oreilly.com/fluent-javascript-html-ca 15:48:33 Topic: Model - Range of Bodies and Targets 15:48:41 http://w3c.github.io/web-annotation/model/wd/RequireSpecificResource.html 15:49:17 less consistent 15:50:23 fjh: I think we have consensus on the list for the simpler appearing alternative , proposal 2, despite being less consistent in the moel 15:50:45 TimCole: we seem to have consensus but need to work this issue of requiring specific resource 15:50:53 s/moel/model/ 15:50:59 ... adds layer of indirection 15:51:15 ... emerging consensus is to allow role on embedded text as well 15:51:23 ... Ivan summarized on his post 15:51:40 ... asked how to handle multiplicity 15:51:45 q+ 15:51:59 really more of an operator than a role 15:52:01 ... example is different languages 15:52:25 role on composite sounds ok but role on choice sounds weird 15:52:26 ... role on group as well as individual constituents, we need both, does that break the pattern further 15:52:34 ... also question of whether we need a subclass 15:52:45 ditto for list 15:52:51 ... for different types of selectors, probably do 15:52:56 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Sep/0214.html Ivan's comment 15:52:58 ... suggest we discuss next week after list discussion 15:53:50 fjh: thanks for creating this issue document, it is a great help, we should discuss and hopefully resolve next week 15:53:52 q? 15:53:57 ack shepazu 15:55:00 shepazu: regarding choices etc need to better understand the use case, are these multiplicity use cases written up? 15:55:06 TimCole: discussed in community group 15:55:43 ... example is choice for different languages for the user to choose 15:56:11 ... comes up in selectors, need to get range on video, order matter 15:56:31 ... segment of video in region of video, two selectors, timestamp and pixel region 15:56:55 TimCole: will look up and share use cases from Community Group 15:57:20 shepazu: would be useful to make use cases expliicit , not all lists may need same mechanims, eg. choice of language versus selectors 15:57:43 q? 15:58:19 Topic: Other Business 15:58:26 fjh: none 15:58:29 q? 15:59:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:59:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-annotation-minutes.html ivan 15:59:08 trackbot, end telcon 15:59:08 Zakim, list attendees 15:59:08 As of this point the attendees have been Frederick_Hirsch, ivan, Tim_Cole, Jacob_Jett, Chris_Birk, TB_Dinesh, Paolo_Ciccarese, davis_salisbury, Takeshi_Kanai 15:59:13 thanks for excellent call 15:59:16 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:59:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-annotation-minutes.html trackbot 15:59:17 RRSAgent, bye 15:59:17 I see no action items 16:03:03 RRSAgent has joined #annotation 16:03:03 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-annotation-irc 16:03:51 Regrets+ Ben_Demeester 16:03:59 i/Agenda Review/ScribeNick: fjh/ 16:04:06 i/Agenda Review/Scribe: Frederick_Hirsch/ 16:04:10 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:04:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/30-annotation-minutes.html fjh 16:04:34 s/thanks/fjh: thanks/ 18:52:29 Zakim has left #annotation