14:31:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:31:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-irc
14:31:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:31:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
14:31:23 <AllanJ_> trackbot, start meeting
14:31:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:31:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:31:25 <AWK> AWK has joined #LVTF
14:31:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:31:25 <trackbot> Date: 09 September 2015
14:31:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:31:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:31:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:31:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:31:30 <trackbot> Date: 09 September 2015
14:31:35 <AWK> present+ AWK
14:31:37 <AllanJ_> present+ jim_allan
14:32:43 <MichaelC> MichaelC has changed the topic to: WebEx https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4bf5ac2dbbb219472dba083739758ca9
14:32:44 <AllanJ_> Agenda+ Introductions
14:32:55 <AllanJ_> \Agenda+ Review Work Statement
14:33:08 <AllanJ_> Agenda+ Work Topics - issues collection on the wiki
14:33:27 <AllanJ_> Agenda+ Review Work Statement
14:33:46 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #lvtf
14:34:01 <Ryladog> Present+ Katie Haritos-Shea
14:34:07 <AWK> regrets+ Bruce_Bailey, Srini
14:34:07 <AllanJ_> regrets+ bruce
14:34:59 <AWK> Chair: jim_allan
14:35:01 <AllanJ_> scribe: allanj
14:35:14 <jeanne> scribe: jeanne
14:35:21 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
14:35:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Introductions" taken up [from AllanJ_]
14:35:28 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 1
14:35:28 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Introductions" taken up [from AllanJ_]
14:35:48 <jeanne> present+ jeanne, Alan, AWK, Katie, Laura
14:36:00 <AWK> for introductions provide:    - name    - what are expectations of group    - what can you do
14:36:21 <jeanne> [Introductions]
14:37:12 <AllanJ_> Jim is also Chair of the User Agent working group
14:42:41 <AllanJ_> present+ JonAvila, WayneDick
14:44:05 <AllanJ_> present+ MCooper
14:44:40 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #lvtf
14:44:46 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
14:45:28 <jon_avila> zakim, list atendees
14:45:28 <Zakim> I don't understand 'list atendees', jon_avila
14:45:33 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
14:45:40 <AllanJ_> present+ erichManser
14:45:42 <jon_avila> zakim, list attendees
14:45:42 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AWK, jim_allan, Katie, Haritos-Shea, jeanne, Alan, Laura, JonAvila, WayneDick, MCooper, jon_avila, erichManser
14:45:51 <Wayne> present
14:46:33 <jeanne> s/present/
14:48:54 <AllanJ_> action: jim to present 10 minutes on lowvision with wayne
14:48:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1 - Present 10 minutes on lowvision with wayne [on Jim Allan - due 2015-09-16].
14:49:11 <AllanJ_> zakim, agenda?
14:49:11 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:49:12 <Zakim> 1. Introductions [from AllanJ_]
14:49:12 <Zakim> 2. Work Topics - issues collection on the wiki [from AllanJ_]
14:49:12 <Zakim> 3. Review Work Statement [from AllanJ_]
14:49:20 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 2
14:49:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Work Topics - issues collection on the wiki" taken up [from AllanJ_]
14:49:28 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 3
14:49:28 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Review Work Statement" taken up [from AllanJ_]
14:49:59 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/work-statement
14:50:40 <AllanJ_> topic: Document requirements for low vision users;
14:52:27 <Wayne> q+
14:53:12 <jon_avila> * either is fine with me
14:53:22 <AllanJ_>  example requirements: www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs
14:54:01 <jeanne> Wayne: It seems like all the research I'm reading stops when the web starts.  We don't seem to have the good @@ research.  Some of us will be doing the first cut on this.
14:54:16 <jeanne> ... I struggle a lot with Git, but I'm starting to get it.
14:54:34 <jeanne> Andrew: It is worth everyone having some baseline knowledge of it.
14:55:11 <AllanJ_> topic: Identify gaps in the above requirements between user needs and how they are met by web sites that conform to WCAG 2.0;
14:55:55 <jeanne> Jim: It's not all sitting on the author. There is a lot that the browsers can do, so we don't have authors writing a million different ways to do things.
14:56:42 <AllanJ_> the author proposed, the browser disposed
14:56:51 <AllanJ_> ws/disposed/disposes
14:56:53 <jeanne> Andrew: It's how end-users can get their needs met. Some falls on browsers, some on authors, and there is a squishy area between.  I don't think there is a clear boundary between the two.
14:57:01 <AllanJ_> -- Al Gillman
14:57:19 <Wayne> q+
14:57:24 <jeanne> ALan: Do we want to consider things with mobile apps and low vision
14:57:40 <jeanne> ... the smaller screens, and apps may not be able to turn off CSS
14:57:53 <Wayne> q-
14:58:12 <jeanne> Jim: The chairs will get together and see if the whole group wants to do it or if people want to get together and work on specific parts.
14:58:34 <jeanne> Andrew: SOme will have to coordinate with the Mobile Accessibility Task Force.
14:59:28 <AllanJ_> scribe: allanj
14:59:34 <jeanne> Jim: Jon, Alan and Jeanne are on the Mobile Accessiiblity Task Force, and Katie is also on the Cognitive Accessibility Task Force
14:59:49 <AllanJ_> topic: Document sufficient and advisory techniques and failures for WCAG 2.0 to meet low vision user needs;
15:00:35 <AllanJ_> awk: requirement - what we want to achieve, gap analysis...
15:01:01 <Alan_Smith> Alan_Smith has joined #lvtf
15:01:04 <AllanJ_> ... techniques and failures for current version of WCAG is very important
15:01:32 <AllanJ_> ... lead to extension with perhaps new Success Criteria
15:02:10 <AllanJ_> awk: techniques to help current authors.
15:02:30 <AllanJ_> present+ JohnR
15:02:47 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-minutes.html laura
15:02:58 <AllanJ_> John joins, Cooper and Jeanne leave
15:03:13 <AllanJ_> rrsagent, make logs public
15:05:11 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #lvtf
15:05:32 <AllanJ_> topic: Define low vision use cases which user agents need to support;
15:08:02 <AllanJ_> Develop extension to WCAG 2.0 to address low-vision user needs effectively or whatever new guidelines are developed
15:09:07 <AllanJ_> zakim, next item
15:09:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Introductions" taken up [from AllanJ_]
15:09:19 <AllanJ_> close item 1
15:09:25 <AllanJ_> close item 3
15:09:35 <AllanJ_> open item 2
15:10:06 <AllanJ_> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Work_Topics
15:10:59 <AllanJ_> action: Jeanne to create LVTF github page
15:10:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Create lvtf github page [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-09-16].
15:13:16 <Wayne> q+
15:13:20 <AllanJ_> khs: responsive design upto 1000%
15:13:48 <AllanJ_> awk: wayne posted on webaim upto 900%
15:14:27 <AllanJ_> wd: worked with Gordon Legge - research --- ~1000%
15:14:43 <AllanJ_> ... depends on viewport,
15:15:18 <laura> Wayne’s post: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2015JulSep/0099.html
15:15:21 <AllanJ_> ... and 0
15:15:27 <AWK> q+
15:15:41 <AWK> ack wayne
15:15:48 <AWK> Scribe: AWK
15:16:17 <AWK> WD: the big question is "percentage of what?"
15:16:39 <AWK> JA: variable screen size is an issue.
15:17:17 <AWK> WD: idea called "screen capacity" with a grid and will post to wiki as it is complicated
15:18:40 <AWK> JR: I have pet peeve which is that he hates a certain vendor where magnification is dependent on use of the screen reader
15:18:53 <AWK> JA: so you want magnification decoupled from speech?
15:18:56 <AWK> JR: Yes
15:19:27 <AWK> Jon: What specific issues?
15:20:04 <AWK> JR: this OS has problems for ppl with LV in that error messages are not enlargeable, menus are not enlargeable including the accessibility menu
15:20:25 <AWK> JR: other mobile platforms don't have these issues
15:21:05 <AWK> Jon: So text resize doesn't go large enough and doesn't apply to all aspects of the UI
15:21:11 <AWK> JR: Ye
15:21:15 <AWK> s/Ye/Yes
15:21:34 <AWK> JR: Text gets fuzzy at high enlargement
15:23:07 <AWK> JA: We should document differences between OS's
15:23:53 <AWK> Jon: commenting on JR's comment about 3rd party apps that don't follow dynamic text size adjustment in the OS
15:24:05 <AWK> Jon: agree that there is a problem
15:24:29 <AWK> Jon: Limited screen real estate - sometimes truncating text may be an option
15:24:40 <AWK> ... don't want horizontal scrolling
15:24:48 <AWK> ... vertical scrolling can be ok
15:25:13 <AWK> ... uses 600x800 resolution on Windows and there are many applications that don't fit and that is a problem
15:26:08 <AWK> JA: similar experience, sometimes important buttons in dialogs are off screen
15:26:20 <Wayne> q+
15:26:30 <AllanJ_> AllanJ_ has joined #lvtf
15:26:36 <AWK> Jon: Doesn't like to use screen magnification software personally
15:26:45 <AllanJ_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:26:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-minutes.html AllanJ_
15:26:53 <AWK> Jon: can find those tools dizzying
15:27:13 <AWK> Jon: enlarged text is better
15:27:44 <JohnRochford> +1
15:28:02 <AWK> WD: people find things that work
15:28:27 <AWK> ... then you live in fear that the functionality will go away and you will spend a lot of time finding a new solution
15:28:52 <AllanJ_> +1 software vanishing - a huge concern about using extensions with browsers
15:28:58 <AWK> ... LV-benefiting features are often not documented, and then more easily broken
15:29:15 <AllanJ_> extensions go away or browser changes and extension no longer works
15:30:30 <AWK> WD: screen readers can take over the visual display of the information on screen making reading harder
15:31:13 <AWK> Jon: use a variety of tools, depending on whether tired, having a good or less good vision day
15:32:07 <AWK> JA: Please feel free to write thoughts/ideas on wiki: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/
15:32:45 <AllanJ_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-minutes.html AllanJ_
15:33:16 <laura> Thanks. bye.
15:33:29 <AllanJ_> zakim, please part
15:33:29 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been AWK, jim_allan, Katie, Haritos-Shea, jeanne, Alan, Laura, JonAvila, WayneDick, MCooper, jon_avila, erichManser, JohnR
15:33:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #lvtf
15:33:42 <laura> laura has left #lvtf
15:33:53 <AWK> trackbot, end meeting
15:33:53 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:34:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:34:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
15:34:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:34:02 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-actions.rdf :
15:34:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jim to present 10 minutes on lowvision with wayne [1]
15:34:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-irc#T14-48-54
15:34:02 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeanne to create LVTF github page [2]
15:34:02 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-lvtf-irc#T15-10-59