IRC log of forms on 2015-09-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:53:12 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-forms-irc
12:53:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:53:14 [Zakim]
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12:53:16 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
12:53:16 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:53:17 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:53:17 [trackbot]
Date: 09 September 2015
12:53:25 [Steven]
Chair: STeven
12:53:30 [Steven]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Sep/0002
12:53:35 [Steven]
s/STeven/Steven/
13:02:45 [Steven]
Present: Steven, Erik, Philip, Nick
13:03:48 [Steven]
Topic: Orbeon 4.10
13:03:48 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Aug/0030
13:04:13 [Steven]
Erik: Not much more to say than is in the email
13:04:28 [Steven]
Topic: Call next week [regrets from Steven again]
13:04:28 [Steven]
[No link]
13:05:22 [Steven]
Steven: I'm chairing an ODF meeting next week(in NL), Tues, and Weds
13:05:38 [Steven]
... so shall we skip a week again, or do you want to meet without me?
13:05:59 [Steven]
Philip: I'll be at XML summer school next week, so I won't be able to come anyway.
13:06:06 [Steven]
Steven: So skip a week then.
13:06:17 [Steven]
Topic: Editing
13:06:17 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Jul/0005.html
13:06:46 [Steven]
Steven: I've been away all week, but this week I'll have more time.
13:06:51 [alain]
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13:06:53 [Steven]
Topic: public-xformsusers
13:06:53 [Steven]
[No link]
13:07:15 [Steven]
Steven: Nothing to report, but I'll keep it on the agenda until I hear from Mark.
13:07:22 [Steven]
Topic: ACTIONs 2024 - 2029
13:07:22 [Steven]
[See mail list]
13:08:40 [ebruchez]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Sep/0000.html
13:08:46 [ebruchez]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Sep/0001.html
13:08:46 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2025 - Deal with the naming over xpath versions
13:08:57 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Sep/0000.html
13:09:33 [Steven]
Erik: This was a clarification of a hard-to-understand text
13:09:37 [ebruchez]
https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#The_XForms_Function_Library
13:10:51 [Steven]
"One question is whether we call "XForms Function Library" only the
13:10:51 [Steven]
functions which are *added* by XForms, or the entire function library,
13:10:51 [Steven]
including the standard XPath (1.0 or 2.0) functions. For now I have assumed
13:10:51 [Steven]
that "XForms Function Library" only contains what is added by XForms.
13:10:52 [Steven]
"
13:12:36 [Steven]
Steven: I agree with the text as you now have it, that the XForms Function Library is only what is added
13:12:56 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2029 - Check that integer promotes successfully to double
13:13:03 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Sep/0001.html
13:15:16 [Steven]
Erik: We can keep the double parameters
13:18:35 [Steven]
... but returning an empty string for NaN is not backwards compatible.
13:18:53 [Steven]
Steven: But returning an xs:date isn't wither.
13:19:24 [nvdbleek]
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13:20:06 [Steven]
Erik: In some cases it wouldn't work, definitely
13:20:55 [Steven]
Erik: The easiest way is to return a string
13:21:06 [Steven]
... but it would look weird in XPath2
13:21:45 [Steven]
Steven: What does XPath2 offer to do things like this?
13:21:55 [Steven]
Erik: Nothing like this.
13:24:01 [Steven]
Erik: We have days-to-date and days-from-date which work together.
13:25:03 [Steven]
Philip: These calculations are difficult. XPath2 calculations are better
13:25:46 [ebruchez]
days-to-date(days-from-date(local-date()) + 31)
13:27:20 [Steven]
Steven: XPath2 has days-from-duration, that's how you would do it, right?
13:28:34 [nvdbleek]
+1
13:28:44 [Steven]
Steven: I'm inclined to leave our functions as are, returning strings, and let people use XPath2 otherwise
13:28:53 [Steven]
Philip: I agree
13:29:02 [alain]
+1
13:29:15 [Steven]
Present+Alain
13:30:14 [Steven]
ACTION: Erik to make return types of days-to-date and seconds-to-dateTime string
13:30:15 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2030 - Make return types of days-to-date and seconds-to-datetime string [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-09-16].
13:30:47 [Steven]
trackbot, close action-2029
13:30:47 [trackbot]
Closed action-2029.
13:32:19 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-1990: Write text for new instance namespaces processing
13:32:19 [Steven]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Jan/0005.html
13:32:31 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Aug/0010.html
13:33:46 [ebruchez]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Aug/0012.html
13:34:47 [Steven]
Erik: I replied to Nick's comment
13:35:33 [Steven]
... see the above link
13:36:07 [Steven]
... we want to avoid polluting instances with unwanted namespaces
13:36:50 [Steven]
... especially if you use QNames in attributes
13:37:14 [Steven]
... these won't show up, so you have to include the namespace declaration on the root of the instance
13:38:23 [Steven]
Steven: I think it is worth us saying something explicitly about that.
13:38:46 [Steven]
Nick: We are changing behaviour, but I can live with that.
13:38:53 [ebruchez]
https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_instance_Element
13:38:59 [Steven]
... XSLT does something different.
13:41:15 [Steven]
Nick: We have tools to remove redundant namespace declararions.
13:43:33 [Steven]
Steven: We also need an example where there is a default namespace
13:44:06 [Steven]
Erik: And an example where default namespace changes from HTML to XF
13:44:36 [Steven]
Erik: There are drawbacks and advanatges to all solutions
13:44:50 [Steven]
s/natg/ntag/
13:45:43 [Steven]
Erik: Either way someone's expectation would be broken.
13:46:14 [Steven]
Steven: Does this break anyone's processor?
13:46:46 [Steven]
Nick: I don't think so. I don't think anyone assumes that XF or XH are available in the instance.
13:48:25 [Steven]
Alain: XSLTForms doesn't add those namespaces anyway. I think we might have a prblem with QNames, but I don't think anyone uses that. It is possible to deal with both solutions.
13:48:46 [Steven]
Steven: It wouldn;t break your system
13:48:49 [Steven]
Alain: no.
13:48:54 [Steven]
s/;/'/
13:49:27 [Steven]
Steven: Nick are you OK with this version?
13:49:44 [Steven]
Nick: I can live with it.
13:50:05 [Steven]
Trackbot, close Action-1990
13:50:05 [trackbot]
Closed Action-1990.
13:50:24 [Steven]
Topic: ACTION-2020: Propose what to do if serialization in serialize()
13:50:24 [Steven]
fails
13:50:24 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0008
13:51:29 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Apr/0006.html
13:56:50 [Steven]
Steven: Why do you prefer an error to an event, Nick?
13:57:03 [Steven]
Nick: I don't think we do that elsewhere.
13:57:19 [Steven]
... and we eventually get an event
13:57:23 [Steven]
Erik: In most cases
13:57:39 [Steven]
Erik: I don't like throwing events while evaluating an XPath function
13:57:50 [Steven]
... it breaks the flow of executions
13:58:57 [Steven]
Steven: So we do strinct+error
13:59:02 [Steven]
s/nct/ct/
13:59:09 [Steven]
Erik: I'm not convinced yet.
13:59:47 [Steven]
Steven: Then I suggest we discuss this further next call.
14:00:07 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-forms-minutes.html Steven
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