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12:53:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-forms-irc
12:53:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:53:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:53:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:53:17 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:53:17 <trackbot> Date: 09 September 2015
12:53:25 <Steven> Chair: STeven
12:53:30 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Sep/0002
12:53:35 <Steven> s/STeven/Steven/
13:02:45 <Steven> Present: Steven, Erik, Philip, Nick
13:03:48 <Steven> Topic: Orbeon 4.10
13:03:48 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Aug/0030
13:04:13 <Steven> Erik: Not much more to say than is in the email
13:04:28 <Steven> Topic: Call next week [regrets from Steven again]
13:04:28 <Steven> [No link]
13:05:22 <Steven> Steven: I'm chairing an ODF meeting next week(in NL), Tues, and Weds
13:05:38 <Steven> ... so shall we skip a week again, or do you want to meet without me?
13:05:59 <Steven> Philip: I'll be at XML summer school next week, so I won't be able to come anyway.
13:06:06 <Steven> Steven: So skip a week then.
13:06:17 <Steven> Topic: Editing
13:06:17 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Jul/0005.html
13:06:46 <Steven> Steven: I've been away all week, but this week I'll have more time.
13:06:51 <alain> alain has joined #forms
13:06:53 <Steven> Topic: public-xformsusers
13:06:53 <Steven> [No link]
13:07:15 <Steven> Steven: Nothing to report, but I'll keep it on the agenda until I hear from Mark.
13:07:22 <Steven> Topic: ACTIONs 2024 - 2029
13:07:22 <Steven> [See mail list]
13:08:40 <ebruchez> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Sep/0000.html
13:08:46 <ebruchez> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Sep/0001.html
13:08:46 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2025 - Deal with the naming over xpath versions
13:08:57 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Sep/0000.html
13:09:33 <Steven> Erik: This was a clarification of a hard-to-understand text
13:09:37 <ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#The_XForms_Function_Library
13:10:51 <Steven> "One question is whether we call "XForms Function Library" only the
13:10:51 <Steven> functions which are *added* by XForms, or the entire function library,
13:10:51 <Steven> including the standard XPath (1.0 or 2.0) functions. For now I have assumed
13:10:51 <Steven> that "XForms Function Library" only contains what is added by XForms.
13:10:52 <Steven> "
13:12:36 <Steven> Steven: I agree with the text as you now have it, that the XForms Function Library is only what is added
13:12:56 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2029 - Check that integer promotes successfully to double
13:13:03 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Sep/0001.html
13:15:16 <Steven> Erik: We can keep the double parameters
13:18:35 <Steven> ... but returning an empty string for NaN is not backwards compatible.
13:18:53 <Steven> Steven: But returning an xs:date isn't wither.
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13:20:06 <Steven> Erik: In some cases it wouldn't work, definitely
13:20:55 <Steven> Erik: The easiest way is to return a string
13:21:06 <Steven> ... but it would look weird in XPath2
13:21:45 <Steven> Steven: What does XPath2 offer to do things like this?
13:21:55 <Steven> Erik: Nothing like this.
13:24:01 <Steven> Erik: We have days-to-date and days-from-date which work together.
13:25:03 <Steven> Philip: These calculations are difficult. XPath2 calculations are better
13:25:46 <ebruchez> days-to-date(days-from-date(local-date()) + 31)
13:27:20 <Steven> Steven: XPath2 has days-from-duration, that's how you would do it, right?
13:28:34 <nvdbleek> +1
13:28:44 <Steven> Steven: I'm inclined to leave our functions as are, returning strings, and let people use XPath2 otherwise
13:28:53 <Steven> Philip: I agree
13:29:02 <alain> +1
13:29:15 <Steven> Present+Alain
13:30:14 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to make return types of days-to-date and seconds-to-dateTime string
13:30:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2030 - Make return types of days-to-date and seconds-to-datetime string [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-09-16].
13:30:47 <Steven> trackbot, close action-2029
13:30:47 <trackbot> Closed action-2029.
13:32:19 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-1990: Write text for new instance namespaces processing
13:32:19 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Jan/0005.html
13:32:31 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Aug/0010.html
13:33:46 <ebruchez> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Aug/0012.html
13:34:47 <Steven> Erik: I replied to Nick's comment
13:35:33 <Steven> ... see the above link
13:36:07 <Steven> ... we want to avoid polluting instances with unwanted namespaces
13:36:50 <Steven> ... especially if you use QNames in attributes
13:37:14 <Steven> ... these won't show up, so you have to include the namespace declaration on the root of the instance
13:38:23 <Steven> Steven: I think it is worth us saying something explicitly about that.
13:38:46 <Steven> Nick: We are changing behaviour, but I can live with that.
13:38:53 <ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_instance_Element
13:38:59 <Steven> ... XSLT does something different.
13:41:15 <Steven> Nick: We have tools to remove redundant namespace declararions.
13:43:33 <Steven> Steven: We also need an example where there is a default namespace
13:44:06 <Steven> Erik: And an example where default namespace changes from HTML to XF
13:44:36 <Steven> Erik: There are drawbacks and advanatges to all solutions
13:44:50 <Steven> s/natg/ntag/
13:45:43 <Steven> Erik: Either way someone's expectation would be broken.
13:46:14 <Steven> Steven: Does this break anyone's processor?
13:46:46 <Steven> Nick: I don't think so. I don't think anyone assumes that XF or XH are available in the instance.
13:48:25 <Steven> Alain: XSLTForms doesn't add those namespaces anyway. I think we might have a prblem with QNames, but I don't think anyone uses that. It is possible to deal with both solutions.
13:48:46 <Steven> Steven: It wouldn;t break your system
13:48:49 <Steven> Alain: no.
13:48:54 <Steven> s/;/'/
13:49:27 <Steven> Steven: Nick are you OK with this version?
13:49:44 <Steven> Nick: I can live with it.
13:50:05 <Steven> Trackbot, close Action-1990
13:50:05 <trackbot> Closed Action-1990.
13:50:24 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2020: Propose what to do if serialization in serialize()
13:50:24 <Steven> fails
13:50:24 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0008
13:51:29 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2015Apr/0006.html
13:56:50 <Steven> Steven: Why do you prefer an error to an event, Nick?
13:57:03 <Steven> Nick: I don't think we do that elsewhere.
13:57:19 <Steven> ... and we eventually get an event
13:57:23 <Steven> Erik: In most cases
13:57:39 <Steven> Erik: I don't like throwing events while evaluating an XPath function
13:57:50 <Steven> ... it breaks the flow of executions
13:58:57 <Steven> Steven: So we do strinct+error
13:59:02 <Steven> s/nct/ct/
13:59:09 <Steven> Erik: I'm not convinced yet.
13:59:47 <Steven> Steven: Then I suggest we discuss this further next call.
14:00:07 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
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14:00:14 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/09-forms-minutes.html Steven
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