14:46:38 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:46:38 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-html-a11y-irc
14:46:40 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:46:40 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:46:42 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:46:42 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:46:43 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:46:43 Date: 03 September 2015
14:46:52 agenda?
14:46:56 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:46:59 agenda+ Agenda Edits & Additions
14:47:02 agenda+ Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Rich, Mark, Janina, Paul, PLH
14:47:04 agenda+ Transcript Support Update -- Chaals
14:47:07 agenda+ Web Payments Accessibility Followup
14:47:09 agenda+ Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam
14:47:12 agenda+ Houdini -- Liam
14:47:14 agenda+ Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al
14:47:17 agenda+ Bug Triage -- Leonie
14:47:19 agenda+ TF Open Actions http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track
14:47:22 agenda+ Other Business
14:47:24 agenda+ be done
14:49:58 agenda?
14:51:09 zakim, next item
14:51:09 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
14:54:07 paulc has joined #html-a11y
14:54:54 present+ janina
14:54:56 chair: janina
14:58:55 JF has joined #html-a11y
15:00:35 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
15:00:43 present+ JF
15:01:30 plh has joined #html-a11y
15:01:31 present+ Liam
15:02:07 LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:02:45 present+ LJWatson
15:02:49 scribenick LJWatson
15:02:53 zakim, agenda?
15:02:53 I see 12 items remaining on the agenda:
15:02:54 zakim, who is here?
15:02:55 1. Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List [from janina]
15:02:55 2. Agenda Edits & Additions [from janina]
15:02:55 3. Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Rich, Mark, Janina, Paul, PLH [from janina]
15:02:56 4. Transcript Support Update -- Chaals [from janina]
15:02:56 5. Web Payments Accessibility Followup [from janina]
15:02:56 6. Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam [from janina]
15:02:57 7. Houdini -- Liam [from janina]
15:02:58 8. Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al [from janina]
15:02:58 9. Bug Triage -- Leonie [from janina]
15:02:58 10. TF Open Actions http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track [from janina]
15:02:59 11. Other Business [from janina]
15:02:59 12. be done [from janina]
15:02:59 Present: janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF, Liam, LJWatson
15:03:00 On IRC I see LJWatson, plh, JF, paulc, Zakim, RRSAgent, Joshue, ShaneM, IanPouncey, liam, joanie, janina, sivoais_, cabanier, trackbot
15:03:03 zakim, take up item 1
15:03:03 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:03:08 zakim, close item 1
15:03:08 agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
15:03:10 I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:03:10 2. Agenda Edits & Additions [from janina]
15:03:16 zakim, take up item 2
15:03:16 agendum 2. "Agenda Edits & Additions" taken up [from janina]
15:03:55 JS: No changes.
15:04:01 zakim, close item 2
15:04:01 agendum 2, Agenda Edits & Additions, closed
15:04:02 I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:04:02 3. Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Rich, Mark, Janina, Paul, PLH [from janina]
15:04:06 zakim, take up next item
15:04:06 agendum 3. "Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Rich, Mark, Janina, Paul, PLH" taken up [from janina]
15:04:36 JF: No-one on the call at present. PLH is running late.
15:04:41 zakim, close item 3
15:04:41 agendum 3, Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Rich, Mark, Janina, Paul, PLH, closed
15:04:43 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:04:43 4. Transcript Support Update -- Chaals [from janina]
15:04:46 zakim, take up next item
15:04:46 agendum 4. "Transcript Support Update -- Chaals" taken up [from janina]
15:05:09 JS: Chaals has worked more on the draft and proposes it's ready for FPWD.
15:05:25 ... Looking for consensus from the gruop.
15:05:48 s/gruop./group/
15:05:57 rrsagent, make minutes
15:05:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:06:18 http://chaals.github.io/html-transcript/html-transcript-src.html
15:07:16 JF: Would like to read through this. Apologies for not doing it sooner.
15:07:33 ... Could I take a formal task to do this? What's the deadline?
15:07:39 JS: No particular deadline.
15:08:07 ... I expect there will be some version of this TF going forward.
15:08:19 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:08:45 ... Concern was expressed previously whether we needed to have implementors lined up before going to FPWD.
15:10:37 LW: Can I suggest we formally ask the Media TF for feedback?
15:10:56 q?
15:11:05 JF: Good idea, but I'd like to take a look through it first.
15:11:42 q+
15:12:30 The clock is ticking here and currently the HTML WG will no longer exist after Sep 30. So even if the HTML Wg publishes this where will future work be done.
15:12:55 ACTION: JF to review the Transcript spec and report back to the TF.
15:12:55 Created ACTION-331 - Review the transcript spec and report back to the tf. [on John Foliot - due 2015-09-10].
15:13:29 PC: What does it mean to have the HTML WG publish it as FPWD, then have the WG disappear. This group needs to think about where this work will happen.
15:13:31 q?
15:13:35 ack p
15:13:50 Q+
15:13:54 ... Taking it to the WICG would be a good idea.
15:14:06 ... Chaals himself said that getting implementor support is important.
15:14:15 ... So what is the short and long term plan for this spec?
15:14:31 JS: Best answer is that we don't know. We don't know about the future of this TF.
15:14:50 +1 to taking it to the WICG (after JF's review).
15:14:53 q+
15:15:06 rrsagent, make minutes
15:15:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:15:43 Present+ Plh
15:16:19 JF: Personally I have strong opposition to moving this to WICG.
15:16:37 ... I think the CG idea was a failed experiment.
15:17:11 ... Maybe we should reach out to the Media TF. I want this to remain aligned to a WG though.
15:17:20 present+ Judy
15:17:24 ack JF
15:17:33 There are several possibilities for future processing a spec like Transcript. Sending it to WICG is one possibility. Asking it be included in the scope of the Timed Media WG charter is another possibility.
15:17:52 PC: I think you're prejudging WICG, and tarring it with a brush too broad.
15:18:11 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:18:34 ... There is specific text in the Web Platforms/Timed Media charters that says specs will be incubated in the WICG.
15:18:39 q+
15:18:51 ack paulc
15:19:59 JF: CGs have lack of resources, mostly they're dormant.
15:20:21 PLH: When you say lack of resources, do you think a WG would have more resources?
15:21:05 JF: A CG is just a wiki page and email list, no access to resourcs like conference facilities etc.
15:21:14 John: I suggest you look at the discussions on http://discourse.wicg.io/ where a lot of WICG discussion is taking place.
15:21:22 PLH: Transcript is a strong fit for the Timed Media WG.
15:21:38 rrsagent, make minutes
15:21:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:21:53 JF: Finding a home for this work is important.
15:22:10 Sinec Jul 13 there have been 482 emails to http://discourse.wicg.io/ - This is not "crickets".
15:22:56 LW: There are several active conversations taking place in the WICG at prsent, and about a third have some accessibility component.
15:23:11 PC: 482 emails on the WICG is active, wouldn't you agree?
15:23:29 JF: My thoughts are more instinct at this point. I'll keep an open mind.
15:23:34 q+
15:23:45 ack plh
15:24:08 PLH: If it doesn't get momentum in WICG, it won't have enough momentum to make it to Recc.
15:24:17 JF: Agreed.
15:24:38 JB: Are there alternative placements to CGs?
15:25:02 ... We could try the WICG, but have a backup plan.
15:25:02 q+
15:25:15 ack Judy
15:25:28 ack paul
15:25:37 s/to CGs/to this CG/
15:25:43 PC: Let's ask the team members their best advice. My question is what we do with this short and long term.
15:25:56 ... Short term we have a request from the editor to publish a FPWD.
15:26:02 q+
15:26:35 ... What I don't understand is whether it makes sense for the TF to publish now, four weeks before the existing WGs close.
15:26:52 PLH: I'm ambivalent.
15:27:05 Q+
15:27:49 JB: Would be strongly in favour of publishing it.
15:28:33 q+
15:28:36 ack Judy
15:28:59 LW: Suggest we defer this to next week after JF's review when we have Chaals and Janina on the call.
15:29:07 JB: Good idea.
15:29:34 q+
15:29:44 JF: Agree we should get it published somehow. This is a joint TF between HTML and PF, and HTML will expire at the end of this month and PF is under charter review.
15:29:47 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:30:16 ... Who will own HTML when the WG closes?
15:30:27 PLH: Web Platforms WG will. It's clearly in the charter.
15:30:46 JF: Then we wait and discuss joint publication.
15:31:05 PLH: It could also be a note.
15:31:46 Present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:31:58 JB: Need to be sure nothing falls through the cracks.
15:32:07 agenda?
15:32:08 agenda?
15:32:12 LW: DDon't think we can resolve this today, let's move on.
15:32:16 zakim, next item
15:32:16 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LJWatson
15:32:22 q?
15:32:27 ack jf
15:32:32 ack ju
15:33:03 zakim, take up item 2
15:33:03 agendum 2. "Agenda Edits & Additions" taken up [from janina]
15:33:11 zakim, close item 2
15:33:11 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LJWatson
15:33:15 zakim, take up item 3
15:33:15 agendum 3. "Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress -- Rich, Mark, Janina, Paul, PLH" taken up [from janina]
15:33:38 RS: We're getting timeouts on some tests. Don't know why.
15:33:52 PLH: If you don't click on the test, it will timeout for sure.
15:34:08 ... Is it because you took too long whilst checking the acc API mapping?
15:34:16 RS: Don't think so, but can retry faster.
15:34:24 rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:34:58 PLH: It may be that the timeout of the test harness is generally too short.
15:35:20 RS: We're trying to look at the API mappings at the same time, so that could be it.
15:35:32 JB: What's your projection for getting it wrapped up?
15:35:59 RS: We have one bug filed with Google, and an overall bug with Firefox where all height/widths are 4px short.
15:36:09 PLH: The clock is ticking.
15:36:34 RS: This isn't my only job I'm sorry.
15:36:46 PLH: This isn't just you, it's the whole thing.
15:37:03 janina has joined #html-a11y
15:37:08 RS: The mapping is ok, but the drawing is off by 4px.
15:37:19 PLH: 4px is no reason to wait.
15:37:31 RS: I'll check back with Google about their bug then.
15:38:05 PLH: I'm waiting for you to tell me it has bugs, but can be shipped.
15:38:28 ... We have a two week window. I'm willing to ask the director for a two week extension, if it means we don't lose all this good work.
15:38:46 JB: What needs to hapen to the doc for this to go to PR?
15:39:03 s/hapen/happen/
15:39:45 PC: I was a pointer to the test suite, to the test results, and to the bugs that were filed, and a candidate recommendation proposal document.
15:39:57 Plus some indication of how those bugs were addressed.
15:40:28 rrsagent, make minutes
15:40:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:40:55 JB: Is there anything the TF needs to do?
15:41:33 PC: The TF should be comfortable with the results, but I suggest this document is owned by the WG and that the TF can comment via the CFC.
15:41:42 JB: Sounds like a good approach. Anyone opposed?
15:42:47 JB: To confirm, we will not run this through the TF, but will file comments during the CFC instead.
15:43:03 rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:43:24 agenda?
15:43:27 zakim, agenda?
15:43:28 I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
15:43:28 4. Transcript Support Update -- Chaals [from janina]
15:43:28 5. Web Payments Accessibility Followup [from janina]
15:43:29 6. Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam [from janina]
15:43:29 7. Houdini -- Liam [from janina]
15:43:29 8. Tab Panels Update -- Leonie, Et Al [from janina]
15:43:30 9. Bug Triage -- Leonie [from janina]
15:43:30 10. TF Open Actions http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track [from janina]
15:43:30 11. Other Business [from janina]
15:43:30 12. be done [from janina]
15:43:40 zakim, close item 4
15:43:40 agendum 4, Transcript Support Update -- Chaals, closed
15:43:41 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:43:41 5. Web Payments Accessibility Followup [from janina]
15:43:49 zakim, take up item 5
15:43:49 agendum 5. "Web Payments Accessibility Followup" taken up [from janina]
15:44:57 LW: On the call last week Janina had an action to send feedback on behalf of the TF.
15:45:37 ... I can forward those comments to close the loop, because TPG referred to those comments when filing its AC review.
15:45:41 zakim, close item 5
15:45:41 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LJWatson
15:45:46 zakim, close itm 6
15:45:46 I don't understand 'close itm 6', LJWatson
15:45:52 zakim, next item
15:45:52 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, LJWatson
15:45:58 q?
15:46:01 janina has joined #html-a11y
15:46:04 ack plh
15:46:09 zakim, next item
15:46:09 agendum 6. "Alt Doc Update -- Shane, Liam" taken up [from janina]
15:46:26 LQ: There is a new draft. It's a lot shorter.
15:47:13 https://w3c.github.io/alt-techniques/index.html
15:47:42 JB: What is the timetable, considering Shane hasn't looked at the draft, and it's been some time since the TF reviewed the document.
15:48:08 JB: Is there a summary of changes?
15:49:00 LW: No summary. I've rearranged it, added some things, removed or replaced others.
15:49:21 JB: Seems like the TF should review this draft pretty quickly.
15:49:33 If we are going to publish the Transcript spec as a WG Note, could we also publish HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives as a WG Note and the bugs could then be filed against 5.1.
15:49:36 q+
15:50:06 JS: Don't think we're under constraint. This will constitute modifications to HTML 5.1.
15:50:24 q?
15:50:32 ack p
15:50:44 PC: Earlier on the call we mentioned publishing Transcript as a note. As Janina said, the objective here is to use this doc to file bugs against the 5.1 spec.
15:51:19 ... So based on this TF note, we file bugs against HTML 5.1.
15:51:46 JS: We agreed some time ago that we'd stub the original note as no longer relevant.
15:52:14 ... The purpose of this doc was just to allow us to get consensus on what bugs should be filed. It isn't intended for publication in its own right.
15:52:19 q?
15:52:28 ack l
15:52:28 liam, you wanted to note we've agreed not to publish this document as a note, but as a change to HTML 5.1
15:52:42