13:01:24 RRSAgent has joined #wot-ap 13:01:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/26-wot-ap-irc 13:05:36 jhund has joined #wot-ap 13:06:19 Sebastian has joined #wot-ap 13:06:41 dsr has joined #wot-ap 13:06:58 Claes has joined #wot-ap 13:07:19 Oliver has joined #wot-ap 13:07:22 taki has joined #wot-ap 13:07:43 scribenick: dsr 13:08:05 meeting: APIs and Protocols task force 13:08:11 chair: Johannes 13:08:30 present: kaz, dave, hans, claes, daniel, frank, johannes, kazuaki, louay, oiver, sebastian, taki, yingying, yoshi 13:08:42 yingying has joined #wot-ap 13:08:55 Present+ Yingying_Chen 13:09:00 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Aug/0066.html 13:09:02 Johannes invites Frank Reusch to introduce himself as a newcomer to the WOT IG 13:09:14 Present+ Claes_Nilsson 13:09:20 Present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 13:09:49 Frank: I am from RWE, a German company. We’re happy to take part in this group. 13:10:12 rrsagent, set logs public 13:10:35 present: kaz, dave, hans, claes, daniel, frank, johannes, arne, kazuaki, louay, oiver, sebastian, taki, yingying, yoshi 13:10:47 Johannes reminds people about the next face to face meeting in Japan, and the plugfest to be held there. 13:11:51 He runs us through the rest of the proposed agenda. 13:13:04 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2015Aug/0066.html 13:13:20 Topic: Technical details / interop guidelines for the TPAC plugfest, call for participation 13:14:05 Johannes: we first need to prepare the guidelines for the plugfest. We’re thinking about a home automation use case 13:15:51 We invite people to bring along implementations, preferably hardware and software. You should first publish a thing description for it covering the data model. We will assume a fixed thing semantics this time around. 13:16:10 We need to know what people are planning as soon as practical. 13:16:49 We expect to use either Github or the wiki to collect input. 13:17:02 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/plugfest Github page 13:17:15 Anyone ready to volunteer that their plans right now? 13:17:54 Louay: we’re planning to bring a discovery demo from Fraunhofer FOKUS. 13:18:14 q+ 13:18:30 Johannes: it would also be good to include something people can access for demo purposes. 13:18:48 ack kaz 13:19:56 Kaz: I am wondering about the mechanism for the plugfest. Is it okay for participants to showcase other use cases, and not to require all demos to be integrated? 13:20:33 Johannes: I see two categories of demos, the plugfest focusing on interoperation, and separate demos showcasing concepts and mechanisms 13:21:19 Kaz: we need to specify the interfaces if we are to get interoperability 13:21:41 Johannes: this is what we need to define as soon as practical 13:22:09 The starting point is the thing description. 13:23:42 Something roughly equivalent to WSDL that tells you how to interact with a thing 13:24:59 Johannes: we also need to protocols and message formats 13:25:06 s/to/the/ 13:25:31 q+ 13:26:44 Kaz: companies might want to provide demos for different application domains 13:27:29 We might want to think about how these demos could be integrated 13:28:09 Johannes: we’re trying to define the interfaces … 13:28:17 ack dsr 13:31:35 [fyi. IETF defines WebSocket protocol (for WebSocket connection) https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6455 ] 13:32:27 Dave: I want to suggest we also allow web sockets, and I volunteer to document the message formats on the plugfest wiki/github page these are currently documented at https://github.com/w3c/web-of-things-framework/blob/master/bindings.md 13:33:03 I am happy to help people who are interested in using my NodeJS implementation. 13:33:33 k_nimura has joined #wot-ap 13:33:54 Kaz: we could include web sockets as a transport layer protocol and document them on the page Johannes suggested 13:34:55 Johannes: we should limit the number of IoT protocols for the plugfest, but leave it open for other demos 13:36:15 People who want to participate in the plugfest would then pick from the protocols we’ve selected. 13:36:22 Is the okay? 13:36:27 Kaz: yes 13:36:30 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/mmi-interop/ MMI Interoperability Test Report 13:36:33 s/the/that/ 13:37:23 Kaz discusses work in interoperability in the Multi Modal Interactio WG some years ago 13:37:32 we could perhaps do something similar here 13:37:58 Johannes: what were the lessons learned from the MMI Interop exercise? 13:38:27 Kaz: interoperability was shown at a component level using the components provided by different companies 13:41:05 Johannes: we should aim to have protocol bindings described as a first cut by the end of this week 13:42:05 Kaz: we should think about the scenario (use cases) e.g. a narrative 13:43:59 Johannes: I think we should agree on the metadata format for data models and protocols, but we are unlikely to agree on a detail ontology for thing semantics by TPAC 13:47:03 Dave: I see the WoT plugfest page at https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/plugfest but we need to agree today on where to add our input on data models and protocols? 13:47:28 Johannes: If no none disagrees, let’s use this github folder. 13:49:27 Dave: I am also concerned about practical details, e.g. the need for wired Ethernet and a block of addresses we can use for static IP addresses. We can then list those on the plugfest page for each demo. 13:50:14 Johannes: We’re thinking about using a single HTTP server to deliver thing descriptions and server protocol descriptions. 13:51:10 Dave: a CoAP client wouldn’t be able to access the HTTP server, so we may need work arounds 13:52:25 action: Johannes, to a headline in the readme.md on the logistics 13:52:25 Error finding 'Johannes,'. You can review and register nicknames at . 13:52:40 present+ Johannes_Hund 13:54:11 Johannes summarises ideas for what the protocol definitions will involve 13:56:03 We also need to agree on a format for the definitions. 13:57:37 … i.e. how to structure the document to ensure consistency across protocols 13:58:49 Sebastian: we need to agree on the data format, e.g. raw JSON 13:59:51 Johannes: that would work for Linux based devices or their equivalent, but not for microcontrollers 14:00:02 Any disagreement? [no] 14:00:38 q+ 14:00:46 ack kaz 14:01:39 Kaz: some of the companies may want to demo XML and EXI 14:02:31 Dave: sure, they should feel welcome to bring such demos, but I am not sure we will have enough such demos as part of the plugfest itself 14:02:58 I plan to demo a compact byte encoding for microcontrollers 14:03:37 Johannes: if we have several companies wanting to use EXI in the plugfest, we can include it 14:05:13 Michael: are we expecting to use RDF for the protocol metadata? 14:05:47 e.g. using JSON-LD 14:06:32 Sebastian: the thing description can be expressed as JSON-LD and could including protocol bindings 14:06:58 We plan to discuss this further over the next few weeks 14:07:14 s/including/include/ 14:08:35 Michael: I’m thinking about the web today, and there definitions for how do things, e.g. how to submit an article to a website. 14:08:39 q+ 14:09:14 Johannes: I get your point … 14:10:24 Michael talks about state machines. 14:10:36 q? 14:10:42 present: kaz, dave, hans, claes, daniel, frank, johannes, arne, michael, kazuaki, louay, oiver, sebastian, taki, yingying, yoshi 14:10:59 ack dsr 14:12:21 Dave: we need to cleanly separate the metadata for things and servers and come up with a simple approach sufficient for the plugfest 14:14:10 Johannes: it would be good to exchange some examples via email to clarify the issues, is that okay? 14:14:13 Michael: yes 14:14:46 Topic: use case for security and privacy discussions 14:15:35 The security and privacy task force is seeking help with requirements, see: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Security%26Privacy_Requirements_Catalogue 14:15:36 First idea of a protocol binding from TD to CoAP / HTTP can be found here: https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/TF-TD/Tutorial.md#property-colortemperature (based on the LED TD) 14:17:14 Johannes explains the request for a use case for requirements analysis 14:18:18 He proposes to use the same example as for the plugfest, i.e. home automation 14:19:46 Dave: it would be helpful to understand what kind of aspects they are interested in as there are a huge range of possible use cases each of which illustrates different aspects of security and privacy 14:20:44 Johannes: any suggestions for use cases? 14:22:27 Oliver: different use cases touch on different aspects, e.g. industrial automation may have little impact on privacy, we therefore want to look at the use cases of interest to the different WoT Task Forces. 14:24:29 If it is okay for the TF-AP, I would like to attend your next call for preliminary discussions of say the home automation use case 14:26:06 Johannes: in the absence of objections, let’s go with the home automation, however, please feel free to comment on the mailing list 14:31:58 Johannes talks about actions at the REST level 14:32:20 Dave: we need to keep separate the treatment at the applications scripting level and the transport layer 14:32:57 Michael: exactly 14:34:27 Johannes: so that the scripts are independent of what protocols are being used 14:35:03 … out of time so end of meeting … 14:35:19 rrsagent, make minutes 14:35:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/26-wot-ap-minutes.html dsr 14:37:13 Present: Johannes, Arne, Michael, Dave, Kaz, Hans, Kazyaki, Sebastian, Oliver 14:37:25 rrsagent, make minutes 14:37:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/26-wot-ap-minutes.html dsr 14:38:30 Present: Kaz, Dave, Hans, Claes, Daniel, Frank, Johannes, Arne, Michael, Kazuaki, Louay, Oliver, Sebastian, Taki, Yingying, Yoshi 14:38:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:38:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/26-wot-ap-minutes.html kaz 15:23:07 dsr has joined #wot-ap