16:46:14 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:46:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/20-ua-irc 16:46:16 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:46:16 Zakim has joined #ua 16:46:18 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:46:18 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 16:46:19 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:46:19 Date: 20 August 2015 16:46:30 rrsagent, set logs public 16:46:36 chair: jim 16:46:53 scribe: allanj 16:47:19 Agenda+ candidate implementations/extensions for each SC - narrow scope 16:47:21 Agenda+ contextual framing for the UAAG Note publication 17:01:00 Kim has joined #ua 17:01:18 Greg has joined #ua 17:16:53 browsers should do more so authors don't have to do so much 17:17:14 Browsers don't meet wcag 17:20:25 polyfills are hacks - bad for accessibility. too many authors writing it wrong. browsers should implement html5 17:21:56 agenda? 17:22:10 topic: update on charters 17:22:28 charter has been extended 90 days to allow us time to finish. 17:23:02 We will publish a working draft during the week of Sept 1 17:23:15 ... we would have published next week, but there is a moratorium. 17:25:58 one item on charter is providing input to WAI 3.0 17:27:03 open item 1 17:29:00 http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/Implementations-by-feature 17:33:46 1.2.1 all browsers do this. none attempt to repair text alternatives. 17:34:41 1.3.3 user stylesheet or stylish extension 17:35:25 stylish works on chrome, ff, safari 17:41:02 1.4.4 configure print - 17:41:42 This gives instructions for editing a web page in Chrome's page debugger so as to make it use the screen stylesheet: 17:41:43 browser - How do I print with the screen stylesheet? - Super User 17:41:45 https://superuser.com/questions/456700/how-do-i-print-with-the-screen-stylesheet 17:41:58 A total hack, and manual at that. 17:42:37 As one commenter says "Depressing." 17:43:46 This supposedly lets Chrome print the screen view: 17:43:47 PrintScreen - Chrome Web Store 17:43:49 https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/printscreen/jmhipjpegbhhmhneoogigjgfmekglogf 17:44:26 topic: 1.4.5 default to platform text settings 17:51:12 As far as I can tell Safari 8 does not allow you to override author colors and fonts, much less use the system defaults. Serious bummer. 17:51:59 (On the positive side, Safari 8 provides good UI for setting a single user style sheet.) 17:52:17 none found that default to platform text settings 17:53:03 topic: 1.4.6 advanced text formatting 17:55:02 user style sheets, stylish 17:55:59 word spacing supported by all desktop browsers 17:59:25 auto hyphenation supported by all desktop browsers 17:59:57 all is supported, changeable via user stylesheet or stylish 18:03:26 topic: 1.8.5 allow zoom 18:03:41 On 2013-07-11 I wrote: However, there is a problem with the "Zoom out" portion. It consists of two clauses that could conflict, and it's not clear how such conflicts would be resolved. For example, what if reducing to 10% is not enough to let the content fit within the height or width of the viewport,then what? Is it saying that zoom has to go to 10% or the amount necessary to make the... 18:03:43 ...content fit, whichever size is smaller? Perhaps rephrase as "Zoom out: to 10% or less of the default size, or enough to let the content fit within the height or width of its viewport, whichever size is smaller." 18:05:05 all zoom, but user can use stylish or stylesheet to constrain content to viewport 18:06:20 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/ 18:08:03 possible need to reword? to fix "so the content fits within the height or width of the viewport" -- 18:08:29 js: has been vetted. unless we find an error. will leave it 18:08:56 topic: maintain point of regard 18:11:22 Safari 8 does maintain point of regard when zooming in or out. 18:11:34 chrome, IE, safari maintain point of regard 18:11:53 IE center of viewport 18:11:57 However, if you have highlighted the found occurrences of a search term, those highlights are no longer over the right words when you change the zoom! Hah! 18:12:36 chrome center of viewport 18:12:40 FF NOT 18:12:55 What Safari does is to keep the same text at the top of the visible portion of the viewpoint. 18:13:03 agenda? 18:13:14 close item 1 18:13:21 open item 2 18:14:24 topic: Contextual framing for the UAAG Note publication 18:14:58 js: say why we have changed to a note 18:16:06 and be polite 18:16:29 it was developed by users 18:16:39 wide support in disability community 18:17:17 identifies key needs for people with disabilities in browsers 18:17:29 s/wide support in disability community/ 18:17:50 stakeholders developing UAAG represent disability community needs 18:18:26 much of UAAG is implemented by browsers, not always easy or efficient, but user can make it work 18:19:00 1 or 2 paragraphs 18:19:40 need before publishing on week of Sept 1 18:20:00 Ample support from W3C membership, but several formal objections from the browser vendors are forcing W3C to curtail the work. 18:21:14 s/Ample support from W3C membership, but several formal objections from the browser vendors are forcing W3C to curtail the work./Ample support from W3C membership for continuing the UAAG 2.0 development, but several formal objections from the browser vendors are forcing W3C to curtail the work. 18:21:59 gl: don't want to make the formal objections seem valid 18:22:09 Ample support from W3C membership for continuing the UAAG 2.0 development, but formal objections from the browser vendors are forcing W3C to curtail the work. 18:22:34 ... the group does not feel the objections were valid 18:23:19 reason we are going along, resources not available to do the compliance testing. 18:23:42 going along = publishing as a note 18:23:56 UAWG decided to scale back to a Note, because the intensive resources to perform Candidate Recommendation testing 18:24:15 ... especially without support from the browser vendors. 18:24:19 1 para on w3 stuff, 1 para user need 18:25:44 kp: 2 reasons - objections and lack of resources. if there were no objections would we have scaled back. 18:26:33 js: not only resouces, but lack of time given the constraints imposed on the group 18:28:03 kp: delays from charter review and objection resolution, time and resource contraints 18:28:06 The pressure of the formal objections to continuing UAAG 2.0, combined with the intensive resources of testing for Candidate Recommendations made it advisable to publish UAAG 2.0 with the finished text as a Note. 18:29:15 The pressure of the formal objections to continuing UAAG 2.0, combined with the lack of resources necessary for testing for Candidate Recommendations made it advisable to publish UAAG 2.0 with the finished text as a Note. 18:29:16 The pressure of the formal objections to continuing UAAG 2.0, combined with the lack of resources for testing for Candidate Recommendations made it advisable to publish UAAG 2.0 with the completed text as a Note and not pursue Candidate Recommendation. 18:29:59 UAAG had a last call 18:30:08 We had Last Call and published x working drafts in response to comments. 18:30:29 The pressure of the formal objections to continuing UAAG 2.0, combined with a lack of resources for testing for Candidate Recommendations, made it advisable to publish UAAG 2.0 with the completed text as a Note and not pursue Candidate 18:31:33 UAWG decided to publish this final working draft, process any remaining comments, them publish a UAAG 2.0 as a Working Group Note. 18:32:15 begin working with WAI 3.0 combining content and user agent guidelines 18:34:04 Maybe combine them as something along the lines of "There has been ample support from W3C membership for continuing the UAAG 2.0 development, and widespread support from stakeholders representing the disability community. However, browser vendors have continued to raise formal objections to continuing UAAG 2.0. The pressure of these formal objections, combined with the lack of resources for... 18:34:05 ...testing for Candidate Recommendations made it advisable to publish UAAG 2.0 with the completed text as a Note and not pursue Candidate Recommendation." 18:34:39 rrsagent, make minutes 18:34:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/20-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:34:51 Could modify that to have the newer versions of the later sentences. 18:34:51 present: jim, jeanne, greg, kim 18:35:04 rrsagent, make minutes 18:35:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/20-ua-minutes.html allanj