IRC log of html-media on 2015-08-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:56:22 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-irc
- 14:56:24 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:56:24 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #html-media
- 14:56:26 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 63342
- 14:56:26 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 14:56:27 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
- 14:56:27 [trackbot]
- Date: 18 August 2015
- 14:56:49 [paulc]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0021.html
- 14:56:56 [paulc]
- present+ paulc
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- 14:58:37 [ddorwin]
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- 15:00:21 [markw]
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- 15:01:50 [BobLund]
- BobLund has joined #html-media
- 15:02:00 [markw]
- present+ markw
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- 15:02:19 [davide]
- davide has joined #html-media
- 15:02:27 [davide]
- present+ davide
- 15:03:51 [paulc]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0021.html
- 15:04:10 [joesteele_]
- present+ steele
- 15:04:36 [paulc]
- present+ joesteele
- 15:05:05 [jdsmith]
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- 15:05:08 [ddorwin]
- present+ ddorwin
- 15:05:10 [paulc]
- present+ jdsmith
- 15:05:11 [jdsmith]
- jdsmith +present
- 15:05:55 [paulc]
- help present
- 15:06:47 [joesteele]
- scribe: joesteele_
- 15:06:57 [paulc]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0021.html
- 15:07:04 [paulc]
- rrsagent, generate the minutes
- 15:07:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html paulc
- 15:07:23 [joesteele]
- topic: Issue 45, pull request 54
- 15:07:38 [joesteele]
- topic:
- 15:07:41 [joesteele]
- topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType
- 15:07:51 [joesteele]
- paulc: Google presented a technical position paper
- 15:08:03 [joesteele]
- … multiple calls for secure release to be put back in the spec
- 15:08:13 [joesteele]
- … late emails still addressing this
- 15:08:24 [joesteele]
- … let’s go around and discuss what should happen
- 15:08:38 [joesteele]
- … and find out how much concensus we have
- 15:08:44 [joesteele]
- q?
- 15:09:04 [joesteele]
- … unless folks have questions, we probably don’t need to dig much more on this
- 15:09:08 [markw]
- q+
- 15:09:20 [paulc]
- ack markw
- 15:09:49 [joesteele]
- markw: David raised some interesting points but don’t think it fully replaces the secure release outlined
- 15:10:26 [joesteele]
- … David has pointed out some client spec issues, but don’t believe they cannot be addressed by all browsers
- 15:10:33 [paulc]
- q?
- 15:10:42 [jdsmith]
- q+
- 15:11:03 [markw]
- I don't think the client issues raised are "web architetcure: issues suitable for the TAG
- 15:11:12 [paulc]
- ack jdsmith
- 15:11:41 [joesteele]
- jdsmith: I did not respond in a technical manner to the license renewal post, but we have some concerns about scalability
- 15:11:55 [joesteele]
- … but we do have partners asking for this, industry demand
- 15:12:14 [joesteele]
- … we think it should be in the spec to be interoperabl and not too difficult to address
- 15:12:23 [joesteele]
- … agree that this should be addressed in the task force
- 15:12:32 [joesteele]
- q+
- 15:12:40 [paulc]
- ack joe
- 15:13:44 [paulc]
- Is BobLunc on the phone?
- 15:13:48 [joesteele]
- joesteele: we agree that the license renewal is interesting but do not feel it 100% replces the secure release as we have implemented
- 15:14:00 [joesteele]
- BobLund: I can comment in a minute — hold on
- 15:14:07 [joesteele]
- q:
- 15:14:09 [joesteele]
- q?
- 15:14:33 [BobLund]
- q+
- 15:14:41 [joesteele]
- paulc: David do you want to speak?
- 15:14:44 [paulc]
- ack bob
- 15:15:07 [joesteele]
- BobLund: I want to re-iterate our support for seure release — we have service provides who want to use it
- 15:15:13 [ddorwin]
- Can people here me (before Bob started talking)?
- 15:15:32 [joesteele]
- … we are seeing browsers, and multiple service providers implementing this
- 15:15:33 [paulc]
- No we could not hear you. Sorry.
- 15:15:47 [jdsmith]
- To ddorwin: I didn't hear you speak...
- 15:16:02 [joesteele]
- paulc: do you have a position on license renewal?
- 15:16:30 [joesteele]
- BobLund: License renewal is also used in some cases, but at least one of our members sees a need for both
- 15:16:36 [joesteele]
- … dont think one is a replacement for the other
- 15:16:53 [joesteele]
- paulc: David we could not hear you before — try again please
- 15:17:01 [ddorwin]
- sorry. i'll try calling again
- 15:17:04 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: <no audio>
- 15:17:16 [ddorwin]
- our position is in the email I sent last night. I'll follow up on Mark's reply.
- 15:17:32 [joesteele]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 15:17:32 [Zakim]
- sorry, joesteele, I don't know what conference this is
- 15:17:34 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see jdsmith, davide, joesteele, BobLund, markw, ddorwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, adrianba, robink, cwilso, trackbot
- 15:17:38 [BobLund]
- dial in /irc
- 15:17:59 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:17:59 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 15:18:10 [paulc]
- Is Davide on the phone call?
- 15:18:46 [davide]
- i am using webex voip
- 15:18:49 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: I responded in the email thread last night
- 15:18:58 [davide]
- but i have nothing to say on this matter :)
- 15:19:02 [joesteele]
- … if folks are sure this is not a web arhictecture issue we can move one
- 15:19:24 [joesteele]
- jdsmith: can you summarize your concenrs about lifetime of objects?
- 15:19:24 [paulc]
- See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0025.html for David's position on web architecture issue
- 15:20:06 [markw]
- q+
- 15:20:10 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: unless you have persistent storage, when you close the application you can’t specifiy anything afterwards. there is no way of specifying something to happen after the apps is closed.
- 15:20:22 [joesteele]
- … there is no other feature that has this
- 15:20:33 [paulc]
- ack markw
- 15:20:54 [joesteele]
- markw: if you define what happens at close to not include this then it will not happen
- 15:21:14 [joesteele]
- … I understand the req to not allo the web app to control how long it takes, but the browser could actually make this happen
- 15:21:34 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: 2 of the browsers uses OS based systems that are very different
- 15:21:49 [joesteele]
- … the question is not whether it can be done but whether it should be done
- 15:22:17 [joesteele]
- … by definition the feature requires that after the apps is closed something ahppens
- 15:22:41 [joesteele]
- markw: this is an implementation details, not a web architecture issue
- 15:22:52 [BobLund]
- q+
- 15:22:59 [paulc]
- ack boblund
- 15:23:01 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: I am suggesting we get input because neither of us are epxerts here
- 15:23:28 [joesteele]
- BobLund: as far as I know there are no specs in W3C for user agent behavior other than algorithem behaviors for an API
- 15:23:35 [joesteele]
- … this seems like an impleemntation details
- 15:23:59 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: this feature can only be implemented with this behavior
- 15:24:08 [markw]
- q+
- 15:24:13 [paulc]
- ack markw
- 15:24:13 [joesteele]
- … the implication is that the browser has to do this
- 15:24:33 [joesteele]
- markw: there are things in the web platform that happen when the app is clsoed, ie. the onClsoe event
- 15:24:47 [joesteele]
- … this does not seem out of sync with those, no lack of predcendence here
- 15:25:11 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: TAG has proposed some things as anti-features and they are being phased out
- 15:25:30 [joesteele]
- paulc: we have two questions
- 15:25:45 [joesteele]
- … 1) should we accept pull request 54 — seems to be substantial support
- 15:26:05 [joesteele]
- … 2) even if we accept the request, we should get addiitonal feedback from TAG
- 15:26:23 [joesteele]
- … seeems to me that the task force should decide here
- 15:26:29 [ddorwin]
- q+
- 15:26:35 [joesteele]
- … is there anyone that cannot live with accepting this?
- 15:26:40 [paulc]
- ack dd
- 15:26:55 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: until I answer the architectural question,
- 15:27:09 [joesteele]
- paulc: these are things we can do after the pull request
- 15:27:20 [joesteele]
- … so you are saying you object to the pull request?
- 15:27:32 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: yes we have been working 4-5 months and are still working
- 15:27:55 [joesteele]
- paulc: we have substantial support for accepting this
- 15:28:08 [joesteele]
- … we dont want to wait on getting the TAGs opinion
- 15:28:16 [joesteele]
- … I propose we accpet the pull request
- 15:28:29 [joesteele]
- … and keep the other disucssion orthogonal
- 15:28:47 [joesteele]
- … there are avenues for you to object if you feel it necessary
- 15:29:03 [joesteele]
- … would Mark or Jerry implement the pull request?
- 15:29:15 [joesteele]
- jdsmith: I will handle the request since Mark offered
- 15:29:30 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: I am already having discussions with the TAG so I can handle the other discussion
- 15:29:45 [joesteele]
- paulc: lets make that discussion transparent
- 15:30:08 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: yes. I was just confirming this was an appropriate TAG discussion
- 15:30:24 [ddorwin]
- For the record, I object to inclusion before resolving the architectural issues.
- 15:30:25 [joesteele]
- paulc: if you have other questions on this, please open new issues
- 15:30:45 [joesteele]
- topic: Issue 41, 52, 53 cluster
- 15:31:10 [joesteele]
- paulc: we can try to get the positions out before we have to leave
- 15:31:15 [markw]
- \me oh, I guess I meant I would still be on the phone
- 15:32:03 [paulc]
- ISSUE-41 Update algorithms to reflect keys being provided in the Initialization Data https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/41
- 15:32:13 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: Joe and Mark countered with examples of where issue 52 is blocked and non supported by the algoithsm
- 15:32:27 [joesteele]
- paulc: do we have enough to resolve issue 41?
- 15:32:46 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: made a proposal but not enough feedback yet
- 15:32:54 [ddorwin]
- End of https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0023.html
- 15:32:56 [joesteele]
- joesteele: I have not had a chance to review
- 15:33:06 [joesteele]
- … and won’t have time on this call
- 15:33:48 [ddorwin]
- s/End of/The proposal for resolving issue 52, is at the end of/
- 15:34:02 [joesteele]
- joesteele: 52 blocks 41 and 41 blocks 53
- 15:34:24 [joesteele]
- paulc: so David your proposal is how to handle issue 52?
- 15:34:27 [paulc]
- ISSUE-52 Remove reference to keys in Initialization Data definition https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/52
- 15:34:28 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: yes
- 15:34:31 [ddorwin]
- Issue 52 is basically independent and relates to a bug in the existing text. The other Issues are new features.
- 15:34:44 [joesteele]
- paulc: any other comments on Davids proposal
- 15:34:56 [joesteele]
- … Joe we need you to repsond on this item
- 15:35:03 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:35:03 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 15:35:23 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: 41 would need algorithm design if we resolve 52
- 15:35:35 [joesteele]
- joesteele: agreed
- 15:35:36 [paulc]
- Issue-41 and ISSUE-53 need further elaboration after we resolved ISSUE-52
- 15:36:29 [paulc]
- Most of what is needed is there for ISSUE-41 but ISSUE-53 certainly needs more description if we decide to do that feature.
- 15:36:38 [joesteele]
- joesteele: I believe I have provided much of the detail for 41, but needs more work.
- 15:37:07 [joesteele]
- paulc: if you and David can get concensus on 52, would be good to specify how 41 should move forward
- 15:37:20 [joesteele]
- joesteele: makes sense
- 15:37:31 [joesteele]
- paulc: 53 will remain on hold then until the others are done
- 15:37:48 [joesteele]
- topic: ISSUE-63 and Pull Request-66
- 15:37:53 [joesteele]
- paulc: action on David
- 15:38:05 [joesteele]
- ddorwin: have not had a chance to finish this - try to do in the next two weeks
- 15:38:15 [paulc]
- https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/66 will be reviewed by David
- 15:38:27 [joesteele]
- topic: ISSUE-77 - Correct object name at the beginning of section 6.3 MediaKeyStatusMap
- 15:38:33 [joesteele]
- paulc: no coments on this yet
- 15:38:42 [joesteele]
- jdsmith: just a typo I think
- 15:38:50 [paulc]
- https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/77
- 15:38:50 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:38:50 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 15:39:11 [joesteele]
- paulc: if you are confident it is editorial, please assign to yourself and make the change
- 15:39:21 [joesteele]
- topic: ISSUE-17 - Replace "fire a simple event" with "fire an event" for non-simple Events
- 15:39:35 [paulc]
- https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/71
- 15:39:41 [joesteele]
- paulc: Jerry this was where you went to the WG to get advice
- 15:39:47 [joesteele]
- … and you now have a proposal in hand?
- 15:39:58 [joesteele]
- jdsmith: I got some additional advice after I made the proposal
- 15:40:09 [joesteele]
- … Dvaid is right, these are not simple events
- 15:40:21 [joesteele]
- … we have a named event, the changce I made was to fire the named event
- 15:40:33 [joesteele]
- … but I have an addiitonal comment i need to digest
- 15:40:35 [paulc]
- https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17
- 15:41:01 [joesteele]
- … my proposal was essentialy davids proposed language but with the named event from our spec.
- 15:41:17 [joesteele]
- paulc: is the feedback in the response?
- 15:41:18 [paulc]
- Proposal in https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17#issuecomment-128855753 and feedback in https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17#issuecomment-129374107
- 15:41:30 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generta eminutes
- 15:41:30 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'generta eminutes', joesteele. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 15:41:38 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:41:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 15:41:59 [joesteele]
- paulc: joe please looks at issue 71
- 15:42:06 [joesteele]
- … folks review the rest of the agenda
- 15:42:12 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 15:42:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 15:42:20 [paulc]
- Topic: Next meeting
- 15:44:18 [paulc]
- We will try for an EME meeting on Tue Sep 1.
- 15:44:52 [paulc]
- rrsagent, generate the minutes
- 15:44:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html paulc
- 15:45:19 [davide]
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- 15:58:56 [paulc]
- rrsagent, generate the minutes
- 15:58:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html paulc
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- 16:55:34 [joesteele]
- s/<joesteele> topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType/topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType/
- 16:55:41 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 16:55:41 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 16:56:11 [joesteele]
- s/architetcure/architecture/
- 16:56:25 [joesteele]
- s/BobLunc/BobLund/
- 16:56:39 [joesteele]
- s/interoperabl /interoperable /
- 16:56:56 [joesteele]
- s/replces/replaces/
- 16:57:09 [joesteele]
- s/here me/hear me/
- 16:57:29 [joesteele]
- s/seeing browsers/seeing multiple browsers/
- 16:57:45 [joesteele]
- s/dont/don’t/
- 16:58:03 [joesteele]
- s/arhictecture/architecture/
- 16:58:27 [joesteele]
- s/allo the/allow the/
- 16:58:43 [joesteele]
- s/implementation details,/implementation detail,/
- 16:58:49 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 16:58:49 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 16:59:12 [joesteele]
- s/impleemntation details/implementation detail/
- 16:59:25 [joesteele]
- s/clsoed/closed/
- 16:59:34 [joesteele]
- s/onClsoe/onClose/
- 16:59:42 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 16:59:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 16:59:57 [joesteele]
- s/predcendence/precedence/
- 17:00:18 [joesteele]
- s/we should get/should we get/
- 17:00:56 [joesteele]
- s/accpet/accept/
- 17:01:06 [joesteele]
- s/disucssion/discussion/
- 17:01:19 [joesteele]
- s/lets/let’s/
- 17:01:58 [joesteele]
- s/repsond/respond/
- 17:03:36 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:03:36 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 17:05:26 [joesteele]
- s/coments/comments/
- 17:05:31 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:05:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 17:05:47 [joesteele]
- s/Dvaid/David/
- 17:05:55 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:05:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 17:06:05 [joesteele]
- s/changce/change/
- 17:06:11 [joesteele]
- : rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:06:18 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:06:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 17:07:06 [joesteele]
- s/addiitonal/additional/
- 17:07:15 [joesteele]
- s/davids/David’s/
- 17:07:23 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:07:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 17:07:36 [joesteele]
- s/looks at /look at /
- 17:07:44 [joesteele]
- rrsagent, generate minutes
- 17:07:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
- 17:10:24 [joesteele]
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