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14:56:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:56:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
14:56:26 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:56:27 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:56:27 <trackbot> Date: 18 August 2015
14:56:49 <paulc> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0021.html
14:56:56 <paulc> present+ paulc
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15:03:51 <paulc> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0021.html
15:04:10 <joesteele_> present+ steele
15:04:36 <paulc> present+ joesteele
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15:05:08 <ddorwin> present+ ddorwin
15:05:10 <paulc> present+ jdsmith
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15:05:55 <paulc> help present
15:06:47 <joesteele> scribe: joesteele_
15:06:57 <paulc> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0021.html
15:07:04 <paulc> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:07:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:07:23 <joesteele> topic: Issue 45, pull request 54
15:07:38 <joesteele> topic:
15:07:41 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType
15:07:51 <joesteele> paulc: Google presented a technical position paper
15:08:03 <joesteele> … multiple calls for secure release to be put back in the spec
15:08:13 <joesteele> … late emails still addressing this
15:08:24 <joesteele> … let’s go around and discuss what should happen
15:08:38 <joesteele> … and find out how much concensus we have
15:08:44 <joesteele> q?
15:09:04 <joesteele> … unless folks have questions, we probably don’t need to dig much more on this
15:09:08 <markw> q+
15:09:20 <paulc> ack markw
15:09:49 <joesteele> markw: David raised some interesting points but don’t think it fully replaces the secure release outlined
15:10:26 <joesteele> … David has pointed out some client spec issues, but don’t believe they cannot be addressed by all browsers
15:10:33 <paulc> q?
15:10:42 <jdsmith> q+
15:11:03 <markw> I don't think the client issues raised are "web architetcure: issues suitable for the TAG
15:11:12 <paulc> ack jdsmith
15:11:41 <joesteele> jdsmith: I did not respond in a technical manner to the license renewal post, but we have some concerns about scalability
15:11:55 <joesteele> … but we do have partners asking for this, industry demand
15:12:14 <joesteele> … we think it should be in the spec to be interoperabl and not too difficult to address
15:12:23 <joesteele> … agree that this should be addressed in the task force
15:12:32 <joesteele> q+
15:12:40 <paulc> ack joe
15:13:44 <paulc> Is BobLunc on the phone?
15:13:48 <joesteele> joesteele: we agree that the license renewal is interesting but do not feel it 100% replces the secure release as we have implemented
15:14:00 <joesteele> BobLund: I can comment in a minute — hold on
15:14:07 <joesteele> q:
15:14:09 <joesteele> q?
15:14:33 <BobLund> q+
15:14:41 <joesteele> paulc: David do you want to speak?
15:14:44 <paulc> ack bob
15:15:07 <joesteele> BobLund: I want to re-iterate our support for seure release — we have service provides who want to use it
15:15:13 <ddorwin> Can people here me (before Bob started talking)?
15:15:32 <joesteele> … we are seeing browsers, and multiple service providers implementing this
15:15:33 <paulc> No we could not hear you.  Sorry.
15:15:47 <jdsmith> To ddorwin:  I didn't hear you speak...
15:16:02 <joesteele> paulc: do you have a position on license renewal?
15:16:30 <joesteele> BobLund: License renewal is also used in some cases, but at least one of our members sees a need for both
15:16:36 <joesteele> … dont think one is a replacement for the other
15:16:53 <joesteele> paulc: David we could not hear you before — try again please
15:17:01 <ddorwin> sorry. i'll try calling again
15:17:04 <joesteele> ddorwin: <no audio>
15:17:16 <ddorwin> our position is in the email I sent last night. I'll follow up on Mark's reply.
15:17:32 <joesteele> Zakim, who is here?
15:17:32 <Zakim> sorry, joesteele, I don't know what conference this is
15:17:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see jdsmith, davide, joesteele, BobLund, markw, ddorwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, adrianba, robink, cwilso, trackbot
15:17:38 <BobLund> dial in /irc
15:17:59 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:17:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:18:10 <paulc> Is Davide on the phone call?
15:18:46 <davide> i am using webex voip
15:18:49 <joesteele> ddorwin: I responded in the email thread last night
15:18:58 <davide> but i have nothing to say on this matter :)
15:19:02 <joesteele> … if folks are sure this is not a web arhictecture issue we can move one
15:19:24 <joesteele> jdsmith: can you summarize your concenrs about lifetime of objects?
15:19:24 <paulc> See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0025.html for David's position on web architecture issue
15:20:06 <markw> q+
15:20:10 <joesteele> ddorwin: unless you have persistent storage, when you close the application you can’t specifiy anything afterwards. there is no way of specifying something to happen after the apps is closed.
15:20:22 <joesteele> … there is no other feature that has this
15:20:33 <paulc> ack markw
15:20:54 <joesteele> markw: if you define what happens at close to not include this then it will not happen
15:21:14 <joesteele> … I understand the req to not allo the web app to control how long it takes, but the browser could actually make this happen
15:21:34 <joesteele> ddorwin: 2 of the browsers uses OS based systems that are very different
15:21:49 <joesteele> … the question is not whether it can be done but whether it should be done
15:22:17 <joesteele> … by definition the feature requires that after the apps is closed something ahppens
15:22:41 <joesteele> markw: this is an implementation details, not a web architecture issue
15:22:52 <BobLund> q+
15:22:59 <paulc> ack boblund
15:23:01 <joesteele> ddorwin: I am suggesting we get input because neither of us are epxerts here
15:23:28 <joesteele> BobLund: as far as I know there are no specs in W3C for user agent behavior other than algorithem behaviors for an API
15:23:35 <joesteele> … this seems like an impleemntation details
15:23:59 <joesteele> ddorwin: this feature can only be implemented with this behavior
15:24:08 <markw> q+
15:24:13 <paulc> ack markw
15:24:13 <joesteele> … the implication is that the browser has to do this
15:24:33 <joesteele> markw: there are things in the web platform that happen when the app is clsoed, ie. the onClsoe event
15:24:47 <joesteele> … this does not seem out of sync with those, no lack of predcendence here
15:25:11 <joesteele> ddorwin: TAG has proposed some things as anti-features and they are being phased out
15:25:30 <joesteele> paulc: we have two questions
15:25:45 <joesteele> … 1) should we accept pull request 54 — seems to be substantial support
15:26:05 <joesteele> … 2) even if we accept the request, we should get addiitonal feedback from TAG
15:26:23 <joesteele> … seeems to me that the task force should decide here
15:26:29 <ddorwin> q+
15:26:35 <joesteele> … is there anyone that cannot live with accepting this?
15:26:40 <paulc> ack dd
15:26:55 <joesteele> ddorwin: until I answer the architectural question,
15:27:09 <joesteele> paulc: these are things we can do after the pull request
15:27:20 <joesteele> … so you are saying you object to the pull request?
15:27:32 <joesteele> ddorwin: yes we have been working 4-5 months and are still working
15:27:55 <joesteele> paulc: we have substantial support for accepting this
15:28:08 <joesteele> … we dont want to wait on getting the TAGs opinion
15:28:16 <joesteele> … I propose we accpet the pull request
15:28:29 <joesteele> … and keep the other disucssion orthogonal
15:28:47 <joesteele> … there are avenues for you to object if you feel it necessary
15:29:03 <joesteele> … would Mark or Jerry implement the pull request?
15:29:15 <joesteele> jdsmith: I will handle the request since Mark offered
15:29:30 <joesteele> ddorwin: I am already having discussions with the TAG so I can handle the other discussion
15:29:45 <joesteele> paulc: lets make that discussion transparent
15:30:08 <joesteele> ddorwin: yes. I was just confirming this was an appropriate TAG discussion
15:30:24 <ddorwin> For the record, I object to inclusion before resolving the architectural issues.
15:30:25 <joesteele> paulc: if you have other questions on this, please open new issues
15:30:45 <joesteele> topic: Issue 41, 52, 53 cluster
15:31:10 <joesteele> paulc: we can try to get the positions out before we have to leave
15:31:15 <markw> \me oh, I guess I meant I would still be on the phone
15:32:03 <paulc> ISSUE-41 Update algorithms to reflect keys being provided in the Initialization Data https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/41
15:32:13 <joesteele> ddorwin: Joe and Mark countered with examples of where issue 52 is blocked and non supported by the algoithsm
15:32:27 <joesteele> paulc: do we have enough to resolve issue 41?
15:32:46 <joesteele> ddorwin: made a proposal but not enough feedback yet
15:32:54 <ddorwin> End of https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Aug/0023.html
15:32:56 <joesteele> joesteele: I have not had a chance to review
15:33:06 <joesteele> … and won’t have time on this call
15:33:48 <ddorwin> s/End of/The proposal for resolving issue 52, is at the end of/
15:34:02 <joesteele> joesteele: 52 blocks 41 and 41 blocks 53
15:34:24 <joesteele> paulc: so David your proposal is how to handle issue 52?
15:34:27 <paulc>  ISSUE-52 Remove reference to keys in Initialization Data definition https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/52
15:34:28 <joesteele> ddorwin: yes
15:34:31 <ddorwin> Issue 52 is basically independent and relates to a bug in the existing text. The other Issues are new features.
15:34:44 <joesteele> paulc: any other comments on Davids proposal
15:34:56 <joesteele> … Joe we need you to repsond on this item
15:35:03 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:35:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:35:23 <joesteele> ddorwin: 41 would need algorithm design if we resolve 52
15:35:35 <joesteele> joesteele: agreed
15:35:36 <paulc> Issue-41 and ISSUE-53 need further elaboration after we resolved ISSUE-52
15:36:29 <paulc> Most of what is needed is there for ISSUE-41 but ISSUE-53 certainly needs more description if we decide to do that feature.
15:36:38 <joesteele> joesteele: I believe I have provided much of the detail for 41, but needs more work.
15:37:07 <joesteele> paulc: if you and David can get concensus on 52, would be good to specify how 41 should move forward
15:37:20 <joesteele> joesteele: makes sense
15:37:31 <joesteele> paulc: 53 will remain on hold then until the others are done
15:37:48 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-63 and Pull Request-66
15:37:53 <joesteele> paulc: action on David
15:38:05 <joesteele> ddorwin: have not had a chance to finish this - try to do in the next two weeks
15:38:15 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/66 will be reviewed by David
15:38:27 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-77 - Correct object name at the beginning of section 6.3 MediaKeyStatusMap
15:38:33 <joesteele> paulc: no coments on this yet
15:38:42 <joesteele> jdsmith: just a typo I think
15:38:50 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/77
15:38:50 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:38:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:39:11 <joesteele> paulc: if you are confident it is editorial, please assign to yourself and make the change
15:39:21 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-17 - Replace "fire a simple event" with "fire an event" for non-simple Events
15:39:35 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/71
15:39:41 <joesteele> paulc: Jerry this was where you went to the WG to get advice
15:39:47 <joesteele> … and you now have a proposal in hand?
15:39:58 <joesteele> jdsmith: I got some additional advice after I made the proposal
15:40:09 <joesteele> … Dvaid is right, these are not simple events
15:40:21 <joesteele> … we have a named event, the changce I made was to fire the named event
15:40:33 <joesteele> … but I have an addiitonal comment i need to digest
15:40:35 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17
15:41:01 <joesteele> … my proposal was essentialy davids proposed language but with the named event from our spec.
15:41:17 <joesteele> paulc: is the feedback in the response?
15:41:18 <paulc> Proposal in https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17#issuecomment-128855753 and feedback in https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17#issuecomment-129374107
15:41:30 <joesteele> rrsagent, generta eminutes
15:41:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'generta eminutes', joesteele.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:41:38 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:41:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:41:59 <joesteele> paulc: joe please looks at issue 71
15:42:06 <joesteele> … folks review the rest of the agenda
15:42:12 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:42:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:42:20 <paulc> Topic: Next meeting
15:44:18 <paulc> We will try for an EME meeting on Tue Sep 1.
15:44:52 <paulc> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:44:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html paulc
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15:58:56 <paulc> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:58:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html paulc
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16:55:34 <joesteele> s/<joesteele> topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType/topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType/
16:55:41 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:55:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:56:11 <joesteele> s/architetcure/architecture/
16:56:25 <joesteele> s/BobLunc/BobLund/
16:56:39 <joesteele> s/interoperabl /interoperable /
16:56:56 <joesteele> s/replces/replaces/
16:57:09 <joesteele> s/here me/hear me/
16:57:29 <joesteele> s/seeing browsers/seeing multiple browsers/
16:57:45 <joesteele> s/dont/don’t/
16:58:03 <joesteele> s/arhictecture/architecture/
16:58:27 <joesteele> s/allo the/allow the/
16:58:43 <joesteele> s/implementation details,/implementation detail,/
16:58:49 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:58:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:59:12 <joesteele> s/impleemntation details/implementation detail/
16:59:25 <joesteele> s/clsoed/closed/
16:59:34 <joesteele> s/onClsoe/onClose/
16:59:42 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:59:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:59:57 <joesteele> s/predcendence/precedence/
17:00:18 <joesteele> s/we should get/should we get/
17:00:56 <joesteele> s/accpet/accept/
17:01:06 <joesteele> s/disucssion/discussion/
17:01:19 <joesteele> s/lets/let’s/
17:01:58 <joesteele> s/repsond/respond/
17:03:36 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:03:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:05:26 <joesteele> s/coments/comments/
17:05:31 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:05:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:05:47 <joesteele> s/Dvaid/David/
17:05:55 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:05:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:06:05 <joesteele> s/changce/change/
17:06:11 <joesteele> : rrsagent, generate minutes
17:06:18 <joesteele>  rrsagent, generate minutes
17:06:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:07:06 <joesteele> s/addiitonal/additional/
17:07:15 <joesteele> s/davids/David’s/
17:07:23 <joesteele>  rrsagent, generate minutes
17:07:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:07:36 <joesteele> s/looks at /look at /
17:07:44 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:07:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/18-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
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