14:53:13 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 14:53:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/13-mobile-a11y-irc 14:53:15 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:53:15 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 14:53:17 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 14:53:17 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:53:18 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 14:53:18 Date: 13 August 2015 14:53:36 chair: Kimberly_Patch 15:00:40 marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y 15:01:41 agenda+ Questions on techniques and progress 15:01:42 agenda+ Continuation of discussion on touch https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Jul/thread.html) 15:01:44 agenda+. Writing assignments http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 15:01:45 agenda+ Next steps – next meeting Thursday, August 20 15:05:03 alan_smith has joined #mobile-a11y 15:05:30 hard for me to take notes on this with mobile 15:06:57 present+ jeanne 15:07:17 present+ marcjohlic 15:07:30 present+ Kim 15:08:28 scribe: marcjohlic 15:09:21 zakim take up item 1 15:09:33 zakim, next item 15:09:33 agendum 1. "Questions on techniques and progress" taken up [from Kim] 15:09:56 AS: Started working on 007, believe I sent it in to Kathy or Jeanne 15:10:08 jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y 15:10:21 AS: Was trying to find something in WCAG along the lines that AT support should not turn off things 15:10:59 DM: You might be thinking about non-interferance. Will look for that 15:11:15 AS: Yes if you can send that along then I will continue to work on it 15:11:33 scribe: jeanne 15:11:54 David has joined #mobile-a11y 15:12:04 Marc: I had a question on M22 - Spacing between elements. I thought we were including this in touch target size and spacing. 15:12:48 JS: Think we should include it in the work that Detlev was doing - the new 2.5 Guidelines 15:13:00 JS: Believe it might be 2.5.1 15:13:04 non interference understanding requirement 5 http://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/conformance.html#uc-conformance-requirements-head 15:13:04 ... does that need to be separated or rolled into the work on 2.5? 15:13:19 jeanne: I think it should be a technique under 2.5.1 15:13:57 JS: Keep in mind the difference in level. Detlev has been working at the Succes Criteria level - M22 is the technique level 15:14:12 JS: So M22 would be a way of meeting 2.5.1 15:14:26 scribenick: marcjohlic 15:15:25 DM: I have a suggestion on a technique - when you have an autofill similar to twitter, with VoiceOver on, once you get to the bottom of the window you can't get any further 15:15:39 DM: Not sure if it's a non-interferance issue or not 15:15:59 DM: They way they fixed it was kind of a hack - where they just loaded the whole page at once - which you can't always do 15:16:49 JA: If you can send an example app, i can take a look 15:17:14 DM: Sure - unfortunately they way they fixed it was just by taking it off. I'll send an email to the group to capture it 15:17:31 s/they way/the way/ 15:17:36 zakim, next item 15:17:36 agendum 2. "Continuation of discussion on touch https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Jul/thread.html)" taken up [from Kim] 15:18:24 KP: Jonathan sent around new keyboard shortcuts for iOS 9 15:18:25 http://www.guidingtech.com/46124/new-physical-keyboard-shortcuts-ipad-ios-9/ 15:18:53 KP: Found this interesting because we are seeing more and more apps with this - and this is at the OS level 15:19:47 KP: Speech users are excited to see this show up 15:20:00 KP: What are out thoughts around keyboard shortcuts and mobile 15:20:20 JA: Think it indicates they're important - good that we stood our ground and said they are requred 15:20:32 JA: Maybe even talk about customizing keyboard shortcuts 15:20:59 AS: On Android you can customize some of the keys and keyboard shortcuts already 15:22:17 KP: From a speech perspective - and talkign about customizing keyboard shortcuts - and I think that's where we need to get to because different disabilities have different needs 15:22:48 KP: Single key shortcuts are a huge interferance for speech users - and believe also for keyboard only users. Customizing them is the easy solution 15:23:07 s/interferance/interference 15:23:58 KP: Also the key to connecting speech into the system. Speech can follow along w/ the mouse or the keyboard - if the plumbing is there. Customization is important to that plumbing 15:24:09 KP: Customization makes sense for a lot of reasons 15:24:48 JA: Kind of goes back to WCAG in general. You bring up a good point, if there was only single letter keystrokes it will cause problems 15:25:14 JA: We have some advisories in 2.1.1 Keyboard around keyboard shortcuts - but we should look at updating them 15:26:41 JA: Need to pay attention to techniques that apply to other task forces (cognitive, mobile, etc) - and make sure we're in sync 15:27:09 KP: Email thread on touch 15:27:16 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Jul/thread.html 15:28:19 scribe: jeanne 15:29:43 alan_smith has joined #mobile-a11y 15:30:36 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 15:30:45 present+ Kathy 15:31:35 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Jul/thread.html 15:32:12 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Jul/0030.html 15:32:24 Guideline 2.5 Touch Accessible: Make all functionality available via touch. 2.5.1 Touch: All functionality of the content is operable through touch gestures. (Level A) 2.5.2 Single Taps and Long Presses Revocable: Interface elements that require a single tap or a long press as input will only trigger the corresponding event when the finger is lifted inside that element. (Level A) 2.5.3 Modified Touch: When touch input behavior is modified by built-in[CUT] 15:35:53 Kathy: You can have touch working without the screenreader, but then they won't work with the screen reader. That is more on the application side. Especially on the test procedures, we need to make sure that they work with and without screenreader. 15:36:12 Suggested new Success Criteria Screen reader https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Aug/0009.html 15:36:17 Alan: Does that relate to M007? 15:37:44 David: sent a proposal for a new success criteria: Pages that can be scrolled using a system gesture can be scrolled using 15:37:44 the corresponding screen reader scroll gesture 15:38:52 Jon: I think we should broaden this beyond success criteria. Talk about alternative interaction. If the system uses alternative interaction, then the same capability is available in that alternative interaction. 15:39:13 David: Does anyone see screenreaders developing a app for mobile devices? 15:39:27 Kathy: I have talked with Freedom Scientific about it. 15:39:56 Kathy: WHy an SC that focuses on scrolling, rather than gestures in general? 15:40:12 David: This is more of a technique, or a failure technique. 15:40:47 David: If a gesture does a function, than a screenreader can accomplish the same function. 15:41:32 Kathy: it is more than gesture. It is tactile, tilt scrolling, etc. 15:41:43 Alan: Android has taps and shakes. 15:42:13 Kim: The state of the phone makes a difference. A in-air gesture, a speech command. 15:42:21 ALan: G10 is related. 15:42:38 s/ALan: G10 is related. /Jon: G10 is related. 15:43:17 ... you can programmatically control the device 15:43:31 ... It is mapped to 4.1.2 15:44:09 ... 4.1.2 doesn't quite go far enough to allow the AAPI to control the device. 15:44:36 ... there are equivalents to some of these are equivalent to these for native apps in iOS. 15:45:32 Kathy: When we look at 4.1.2 and mobile, we have the opportunity to create mobile success criteria 15:45:59 ... in the WCAG meeting, we also discussed 3.@@ and opportunities for mobile techniques and success criteria 15:46:07 Jon: Maybe 4.1.3 15:46:46 David: It's great that everything is reported, but now we have to make the device operable with assistant technologies. 15:47:05 David: You turn on voice over and nothing works. 15:47:52 ... I want to talk with someone who works in the Android and iOS code. Why is it going wrong? Why are the gestures not porting over to the screenreader? 15:48:34 Kathy: We could partner with some member companies where we know people. Example of Pearson who just hired a mobile developer. 15:48:48 ... Jeanne, can we ask for support from member companies. 15:49:24 Jeanne: best way is personal contacts 15:49:46 Jeanne: I think we have to ask people personally. THere isn't a formal mechanism to request assistance. 15:50:02 Kathy: We can get info from the charters, from the companies that expressed interest. 15:50:26 ... Deque has the Accessibility 101 with information for developers. 15:51:15 Jon: I can bring something in. It depends on the platform. iOS sends a doubletap to a coordinate on the screen. You can change that programmatically, to route that command to a different location. 15:51:36 ... it's an issue with reading order, or the screenreader not realizing the page has changes - event notification. 15:52:25 David: The problem I reached last week was endless scroll, where iOS screenreader reached the bottom of the screen and couldnt' go any further. 15:52:51 Jon: You could get a 3-finger scroll to continue. 15:53:10 ... 4 finger scroll is to move to the top or bottom of the page 15:53:52 Alan: sometimes I need to 3 finger scroll left or right. 15:54:38 Jon: Programmatically you have to set the increment and decrement for sliders or scrolling, so if you have a custom control and if you don't set the information properly, the scrolling won't work. 15:54:56 ... we need to set up a test page and use phone gap to test it. 15:55:29 Kim: 2.5.1, 2 & 3. Are we good with these? Is there something missing? 15:56:08 Kathy: Some are more specific than I think of for a success criteria. Especially 2.5.2. That may be a Technique within 2.5.1. I need to think about it more. 15:56:26 Jeanne: I think it is too narrow. 15:57:19 Kathy: a next step would be to take this and put Techniques under this, then it might help focusing exactly what the success criteria should be. 15:58:06 ... I'm concerned about tilt scroll, sensors and other input devices. I think we need to think in more general terms so we encompass all of the issues together. 15:58:25 ... We have to keep plugging things in and see how it fits together. 15:58:45 Kathy: If we plug things in, we can have a deeper discussion. 16:00:47 Kim: when I think about speech, I think of a variety of ways to express it. 16:01:34 variety of things that need to be accessed by speech… 16:01:59 Kathy: I'll set up a wiki page. Please continue discussion on the list. 16:02:07 Kim: Feel free to start an email thread. 16:02:38 rrsagent, make minutes 16:02:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/13-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne