IRC log of wot on 2015-08-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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13:06:39 [jhund]
please come here for the joint call of TD and AP
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13:07:40 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
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13:08:59 [jhund]
present+ Johannes_Hund
13:09:27 [kaz]
Present: kaz, sebastian, arne, claes, daniel, darko, johannes, kajimoto, nimura, markus, taki, matsukura
13:09:47 [kaz]
sebastian: first call after the f2f meeting
13:10:02 [kaz]
... thing description and application protocol
13:10:34 [kaz]
... we'll clarify which call will happen next week, etc.
13:11:17 [kaz]
... report from application protocol TF
13:11:29 [kaz]
topic: AP-TF report
13:11:54 [kaz]
johannes: first question is report from the Sunnyvale meeting
13:12:14 [kaz]
... and report by Darko
13:12:33 [Claes]
Present+ Claes_Nilsson
13:12:47 [kaz]
... would give report from the Sunnyvale meeting
13:12:55 [kaz]
... presentation about the outcome
13:13:00 [kaz]
... had a breakout session
13:13:13 [kaz]
... also joint discussion with TD/SP
13:13:22 [kaz]
... about web of things model
13:14:17 [kaz]
(shows presentation
13:14:45 [kaz]
johannes: architecture model
13:14:50 [kaz]
... technology landscape
13:14:57 [kaz]
... lifecycle states
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13:15:08 [kaz]
... abstract resource model
13:15:53 [kaz]
... identified iteration
13:16:01 [kaz]
... still need further refinement
13:16:27 [kaz]
(picture of three WoT Servient: p4)
13:16:59 [kaz]
johannes: use Web Protocol Client to access remote WoT Servient
13:18:16 [kaz]
... direct access or via some Web service
13:18:48 [kaz]
... existing domain specific protocols may be used like bluetooth
13:19:38 [kaz]
... need some refinement
13:19:49 [kaz]
(Points to address)
13:20:00 [kaz]
johannes: difference between protocols
13:20:07 [kaz]
... orange vs blue
13:20:19 [kaz]
... constrained device
13:20:27 [kaz]
... what is the minimal servient
13:20:47 [kaz]
... one servient hosting several virtual instances
13:20:56 [kaz]
... servecies in the cloud
13:21:15 [kaz]
(Technology landscape of TF-AP)
13:21:32 [kaz]
johannes: protocols, resource models and api patterns
13:21:59 [kaz]
(Lifecycle states of a WoT Servient)
13:22:13 [kaz]
johannes: discussion initiated by Kajimoto-san
13:22:25 [kaz]
... offline/standalone
13:22:35 [kaz]
... registered/paired
13:22:41 [kaz]
... activated/connected
13:22:59 [kaz]
... important for security viewpoint as well
13:23:06 [kaz]
(Abstract Resource Model)
13:23:21 [kaz]
(Protocol-agnostic thing model for web things)
13:23:51 [kaz]
johannes: protocol agnostic way to express things
13:24:14 [kaz]
... would handle HTTP, CoAP, etc., at once
13:24:22 [kaz]
... meta data should be also handled
13:24:51 [kaz]
(Runtime Properties)
13:25:01 [kaz]
johannes: create interaction
13:25:18 [kaz]
... dynamic operations
13:25:32 [kaz]
... read,write, subscribe, observe
13:25:47 [kaz]
... read data at some specific point
13:25:52 [kaz]
13:26:13 [kaz]
johannes: invocable action on the physical thing
13:26:27 [kaz]
... issue a state change?
13:26:48 [kaz]
... enables us atomic change of multiple resources
13:26:57 [kaz]
(Next steps)
13:27:24 [kaz]
johannes: need to complete and transfer the technical landscape
13:27:55 [kaz]
sebastian: some gaps? could you please repeat the last part?
13:28:06 [kaz]
johannes: tech landscape from the wiki
13:28:16 [kaz]
... and evaluation models
13:28:29 [kaz]
... to discover what would be the best way
13:28:58 [kaz]
... define a model based on the use cases
13:29:13 [kaz]
... that is my report from the Sunnyvale meeting
13:29:30 [kaz]
... anybody from AP-TF is welcome to comment
13:29:50 [kaz]
sebastian: link for the use cases?
13:30:30 [kaz]
13:30:52 [kaz]
13:31:28 [kaz]
-> Plugfest page
13:31:40 [kaz]
johannes: there is a github as above
13:32:26 [kaz]
sebastian: making examples based on use cases described here
13:32:52 [kaz]
johannes: would have more consistent plubfest
13:32:59 [kaz]
13:33:02 [kaz]
13:34:00 [kaz]
kaz: how could we put together all the use cases that are already on the WoT wiki pages
13:34:04 [kaz]
ack k
13:34:18 [kaz]
johannes: agree with we should gather all the use cases
13:34:31 [kaz]
... though not sure how to use them for the plugfest scenario
13:35:00 [kaz]
... would be pretty obvious on home electronics use cases here
13:35:28 [kaz]
sebastian: some of the use cases fitting quite well with this plugfest scenario
13:35:41 [kaz]
... very nice scenario
13:35:48 [kaz]
... home automation
13:37:01 [kaz]
kaz: thinks it would be nice to concentrate on home automation use cases for plugfest
13:37:24 [kaz]
... and probably some of the TF-AP participants should be able to make contribution for that
13:37:56 [kaz]
johannes: before TPAC demonstration, we need to consider what to be modeled
13:38:11 [kaz]
kajimoto: any idea to include any thing description into this?
13:38:26 [kaz]
... maybe good sample for that purpose
13:38:41 [kaz]
johannes: good to provide some sample
13:39:15 [kaz]
... TF-TD could provide some notation for that
13:39:25 [kaz]
sebastian: very good experience
13:39:46 [kaz]
... to decide what the basic model would be
13:39:48 [kaz]
... and see what is missing
13:40:47 [kaz]
kaz: yeah, so we could think about some initial small profile of the Thing Description for this Plugfest use case
13:40:49 [kaz]
sebastian: exactly
13:41:06 [kaz]
johannes: we just started the discussion
13:41:20 [kaz]
... any more comments/questions on the Plugfest?
13:41:36 [kaz]
... we can have discussion on Github and the ML
13:41:47 [kaz]
sebastian: yes
13:41:50 [kaz]
... btw, who would take the slot next week?
13:42:01 [kaz]
johannes: next week for TD or AP?
13:42:26 [kaz]
... myself don't care :)
13:42:58 [kaz]
sebastian: would like to have TD next week unless there is any specific opinion
13:43:01 [kaz]
johannes: ok
13:43:18 [kaz]
... next Wed. 19th should be TD call
13:43:24 [kaz]
... and AP call on 26th
13:43:37 [kaz]
... if there is no objections
13:43:42 [kaz]
13:43:52 [kaz]
sebastian: ok
13:44:03 [kaz]
... next week we'll have a TD call on 19th
13:44:16 [kaz]
... and AP on 26th
13:44:30 [kaz]
... also on Thursdays we'll have SP/DI calls
13:44:47 [kaz]
... we'll do that until TPAC
13:45:07 [kaz]
johannes: need to leave now
13:45:31 [kaz]
sebastian: would take over
13:45:47 [kaz]
topic: TD report
13:46:00 [kaz]
sebastian: shows the agenda of the Sunnyvale meeting
13:46:11 [kaz]
... outcome from the breakout
13:47:37 [Sebastian]
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13:48:16 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:48:20 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
13:48:48 [kaz]
sebastian: TD model
13:48:53 [kaz]
... minimal set of vocabulary
13:48:56 [kaz]
... data type
13:49:07 [kaz]
... JSON-LD examples
13:49:14 [kaz]
(TD Model)
13:49:30 [kaz]
sebastian: metadata component
13:49:47 [kaz]
... name of the things, product ID, etc.
13:50:02 [kaz]
... also includes what kind of protocols are supported
13:50:09 [kaz]
... encoding information
13:50:17 [kaz]
... EXI, JSON, etc.
13:50:27 [kaz]
... data and data type
13:50:51 [kaz]
... reuse existing data type
13:51:06 [kaz]
... refer to data types defined here
13:51:39 [kaz]
... interaction model pattern
13:51:46 [kaz]
... property, action and event
13:52:41 [kaz]
... that is the basic structure of the proposed Thing Description
13:53:25 [kaz]
darko: information on APIs?
13:53:37 [kaz]
... accessible by get
13:53:54 [kaz]
sebastian: this is a basic model
13:54:28 [kaz]
... what kind of property has which charasteristics depends on vocabulary
13:54:56 [kaz]
... what we're doing here is very abstract modelling
13:56:07 [kaz]
... if we have a concrete protocols, we need to think about how to map the protocol to this model
13:56:28 [kaz]
... would talk about a bit more concrete categories
13:56:47 [kaz]
... describe the components more precisely
13:56:56 [kaz]
(Minimal Vocabulary Set)
13:57:23 [kaz]
sebastian: metadata: name, protocols and encoding
13:57:47 [kaz]
... which has to be written
13:58:11 [kaz]
... could use some specific vendor's protocol
13:58:28 [kaz]
... could reuse existing ontologies like SSN
13:58:41 [kaz]
... data: xsd convention
13:58:57 [kaz]
... definition by XSD
13:59:16 [kaz]
... able to define data types and data access manners
13:59:40 [kaz]
... XSD is very powerful for that purpose
14:00:30 [kaz]
... and well-know property: name, input/output, writable
14:00:47 [kaz]
14:00:48 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:00:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
14:01:22 [kaz]
... need to clarify by TPAC
14:01:39 [kaz]
(Data Type Definition)
14:01:52 [kaz]
sebastian: rely on XSD data types
14:02:00 [kaz]
... define suitable subset
14:03:17 [kaz]
... proposals to be discussed during the next meetings
14:03:26 [kaz]
(Examples in JSON-LD)
14:03:32 [kaz]
sebastian: not finished yet
14:04:04 [kaz]
(JSON-LD (Snippet))
14:04:33 [kaz]
sebastian: IETF thing2thing meeting
14:05:08 [kaz]
... will continue the discussion on present sensor, switch, etc.
14:05:31 [kaz]
-> Plugfest scenario
14:05:56 [kaz]
sebastiona: see "Things" section of the above plugfest scenario
14:06:18 [kaz]
(For the next Web Meetings)
14:06:35 [kaz]
sebastian: will check relevant security aspects
14:07:00 [kaz]
... volunteers for participation
14:07:08 [kaz]
... demonstrators
14:07:22 [kaz]
... that's it
14:07:37 [kaz]
... happy with the outcome from the Sunnyvale meeting
14:08:08 [kaz]
... questions?
14:08:14 [kaz]
14:09:07 [kaz]
ack k
14:09:30 [kaz]
kaz: what do you think about the possible collaboration between the TF-TD and the TF-AP?
14:09:47 [kaz]
... could both the TFs work together for the Plugfest demo at TPAC 2015?
14:10:24 [kaz]
sebastian: unfortunately, couldn't attend the IETF meeting in Plag(?) itself
14:10:43 [kaz]
14:11:13 [kaz]
... not full potential of TD for the demo but could provide some descriptions for that purpose
14:11:38 [kaz]
... would look more protocol implementations
14:12:24 [kaz]
kaz: maybe we might want to have a joint call once a month, etc.
14:12:32 [kaz]
sebastian: might be a good idea
14:12:47 [kaz]
... we'll share a same slot in any case
14:13:12 [kaz]
topic: Report on Spatial Data by Darko
14:13:54 [kaz]
darko: would inform on the Spatial Data group
14:13:59 [kaz]
... possible collaboration
14:14:26 [kaz]
... our focus is defining minimum vocabulary for Thing Description
14:14:46 [kaz]
... we might get help from other groups who work on related topics
14:15:06 [kaz]
... Spatial Data group works with the OGC
14:15:22 [kaz]
... related to vocabulary/ontology work
14:15:31 [kaz]
... trying to make ontology standard
14:15:46 [kaz]
... standard vocabulary for sensors
14:16:20 [kaz]
... our minimal vocabulary can be mapped with SSN ontology
14:16:30 [kaz]
... data provided by other sensors
14:16:47 [kaz]
... actuators as well
14:16:57 [kaz]
... semantic description for actuators is missing withing W3C
14:17:11 [kaz]
... Spatial Data group is working on actuators as well
14:17:19 [kaz]
... would input from us WoT IG
14:17:31 [kaz]
... requirements on vocabulary
14:17:55 [kaz]
... if we could provide requirements on semantic model for actuators
14:17:59 [kaz]
... would be great
14:18:37 [kaz]
... Carry Tailor (?) would input from us
14:18:50 [kaz]
... would have a joint session with us
14:18:54 [kaz]
... during TPAC
14:19:12 [kaz]
sebastian: interesting
14:19:23 [kaz]
... ontology outside for sensors, etc.
14:20:12 [kaz]
... what should we do if we want to use that kind of ontology with Thing Description?
14:20:47 [kaz]
... how to handle company specific ontology?
14:21:01 [kaz]
darko: a few examples describing sensors
14:21:19 [kaz]
... discovery on the basis of SSN ontology
14:21:35 [kaz]
... described by the Thing Description language?
14:21:56 [kaz]
... what the traditional aspect is like
14:22:21 [kaz]
... what is the capability of sensors?
14:22:32 [kaz]
... depending on the conditions
14:22:45 [kaz]
... important aspects for applications
14:23:08 [kaz]
... would be good to work with other groups who are taking cares
14:23:29 [kaz]
... query devices based on the capability descriptions
14:23:35 [kaz]
sebastian: tx
14:23:46 [kaz]
... think we should invite them to our calls
14:24:01 [kaz]
... how does it fit with our model
14:24:10 [kaz]
s/how/to see how/
14:24:57 [kaz]
arne: make sense to find thing description model
14:25:21 [kaz]
... new version of SSN would include actuator capability
14:26:07 [kaz]
sebasitan: building concepts based on the new version of SSN?
14:26:22 [kaz]
arne: defining a light-weight profile based on that
14:26:51 [kaz]
sebastian: would talk with related groups
14:27:05 [kaz]
... and let them know what kind of problems we have
14:27:25 [kaz]
... and see if we could simply reuse their mechanisms, e.g., SSN
14:27:32 [kaz]
14:27:39 [kaz]
darko: SSN is widely used
14:28:06 [kaz]
... would be better to see if SSN description suffices
14:28:23 [kaz]
... not actuators yet
14:28:54 [kaz]
sebastian: we're getting out of time
14:29:22 [kaz]
... next week we'll start our TD call at this time
14:29:47 [kaz]
... and would have joint meetings like today
14:30:01 [kaz]
[ adjourned ]
14:31:09 [kaz]
Meeting: Web of Things IG - TF-AP/TF-TD joint meeting
14:31:20 [kaz]
Chair: Johannes, Sebastian
14:31:28 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate kaz
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s/would have/would (from time to time) have/
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rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate kaz
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