IRC log of wot on 2015-08-12
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:06:06 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wot
- 13:06:06 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/12-wot-irc
- 13:06:09 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #wot
- 13:06:15 [jhund]
- jhund has joined #wot
- 13:06:20 [Darko_Anicic_]
- Darko_Anicic_ has joined #wot
- 13:06:35 [Sebastian]
- Sebastian has joined #wot
- 13:06:39 [jhund]
- please come here for the joint call of TD and AP
- 13:06:45 [Claes]
- Claes has joined #wot
- 13:06:58 [dape]
- dape has joined #wot
- 13:07:40 [kaz]
- scribenick: kaz
- 13:08:34 [Arne_]
- Arne_ has joined #wot
- 13:08:59 [jhund]
- present+ Johannes_Hund
- 13:09:27 [kaz]
- Present: kaz, sebastian, arne, claes, daniel, darko, johannes, kajimoto, nimura, markus, taki, matsukura
- 13:09:47 [kaz]
- sebastian: first call after the f2f meeting
- 13:10:02 [kaz]
- ... thing description and application protocol
- 13:10:34 [kaz]
- ... we'll clarify which call will happen next week, etc.
- 13:11:17 [kaz]
- ... report from application protocol TF
- 13:11:29 [kaz]
- topic: AP-TF report
- 13:11:54 [kaz]
- johannes: first question is report from the Sunnyvale meeting
- 13:12:14 [kaz]
- ... and report by Darko
- 13:12:33 [Claes]
- Present+ Claes_Nilsson
- 13:12:47 [kaz]
- ... would give report from the Sunnyvale meeting
- 13:12:55 [kaz]
- ... presentation about the outcome
- 13:13:00 [kaz]
- ... had a breakout session
- 13:13:13 [kaz]
- ... also joint discussion with TD/SP
- 13:13:22 [kaz]
- ... about web of things model
- 13:14:17 [kaz]
- (shows presentation https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/images/8/8c/TF-AP_breakout_report_consensus.pdf)
- 13:14:45 [kaz]
- johannes: architecture model
- 13:14:50 [kaz]
- ... technology landscape
- 13:14:57 [kaz]
- ... lifecycle states
- 13:15:06 [ryuichi]
- ryuichi has joined #wot
- 13:15:08 [kaz]
- ... abstract resource model
- 13:15:53 [kaz]
- ... identified iteration
- 13:16:01 [kaz]
- ... still need further refinement
- 13:16:27 [kaz]
- (picture of three WoT Servient: p4)
- 13:16:59 [kaz]
- johannes: use Web Protocol Client to access remote WoT Servient
- 13:18:16 [kaz]
- ... direct access or via some Web service
- 13:18:48 [kaz]
- ... existing domain specific protocols may be used like bluetooth
- 13:19:38 [kaz]
- ... need some refinement
- 13:19:49 [kaz]
- (Points to address)
- 13:20:00 [kaz]
- johannes: difference between protocols
- 13:20:07 [kaz]
- ... orange vs blue
- 13:20:19 [kaz]
- ... constrained device
- 13:20:27 [kaz]
- ... what is the minimal servient
- 13:20:47 [kaz]
- ... one servient hosting several virtual instances
- 13:20:56 [kaz]
- ... servecies in the cloud
- 13:21:15 [kaz]
- (Technology landscape of TF-AP)
- 13:21:32 [kaz]
- johannes: protocols, resource models and api patterns
- 13:21:59 [kaz]
- (Lifecycle states of a WoT Servient)
- 13:22:13 [kaz]
- johannes: discussion initiated by Kajimoto-san
- 13:22:25 [kaz]
- ... offline/standalone
- 13:22:35 [kaz]
- ... registered/paired
- 13:22:41 [kaz]
- ... activated/connected
- 13:22:59 [kaz]
- ... important for security viewpoint as well
- 13:23:06 [kaz]
- (Abstract Resource Model)
- 13:23:21 [kaz]
- (Protocol-agnostic thing model for web things)
- 13:23:51 [kaz]
- johannes: protocol agnostic way to express things
- 13:24:14 [kaz]
- ... would handle HTTP, CoAP, etc., at once
- 13:24:22 [kaz]
- ... meta data should be also handled
- 13:24:51 [kaz]
- (Runtime Properties)
- 13:25:01 [kaz]
- johannes: create interaction
- 13:25:18 [kaz]
- ... dynamic operations
- 13:25:32 [kaz]
- ... read,write, subscribe, observe
- 13:25:47 [kaz]
- ... read data at some specific point
- 13:25:52 [kaz]
- (Actions)
- 13:26:13 [kaz]
- johannes: invocable action on the physical thing
- 13:26:27 [kaz]
- ... issue a state change?
- 13:26:48 [kaz]
- ... enables us atomic change of multiple resources
- 13:26:57 [kaz]
- (Next steps)
- 13:27:24 [kaz]
- johannes: need to complete and transfer the technical landscape
- 13:27:55 [kaz]
- sebastian: some gaps? could you please repeat the last part?
- 13:28:06 [kaz]
- johannes: tech landscape from the wiki
- 13:28:16 [kaz]
- ... and evaluation models
- 13:28:29 [kaz]
- ... to discover what would be the best way
- 13:28:58 [kaz]
- ... define a model based on the use cases
- 13:29:13 [kaz]
- ... that is my report from the Sunnyvale meeting
- 13:29:30 [kaz]
- ... anybody from AP-TF is welcome to comment
- 13:29:50 [kaz]
- sebastian: link for the use cases?
- 13:30:30 [kaz]
- -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/three/master/plugfest
- 13:30:52 [kaz]
- s/three/tree/
- 13:31:28 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/plugfest Plugfest page
- 13:31:40 [kaz]
- johannes: there is a github as above
- 13:32:26 [kaz]
- sebastian: making examples based on use cases described here
- 13:32:52 [kaz]
- johannes: would have more consistent plubfest
- 13:32:59 [kaz]
- s/plubfest/plugfest/
- 13:33:02 [kaz]
- q+
- 13:34:00 [kaz]
- kaz: how could we put together all the use cases that are already on the WoT wiki pages
- 13:34:04 [kaz]
- ack k
- 13:34:18 [kaz]
- johannes: agree with we should gather all the use cases
- 13:34:31 [kaz]
- ... though not sure how to use them for the plugfest scenario
- 13:35:00 [kaz]
- ... would be pretty obvious on home electronics use cases here
- 13:35:28 [kaz]
- sebastian: some of the use cases fitting quite well with this plugfest scenario
- 13:35:41 [kaz]
- ... very nice scenario
- 13:35:48 [kaz]
- ... home automation
- 13:37:01 [kaz]
- kaz: thinks it would be nice to concentrate on home automation use cases for plugfest
- 13:37:24 [kaz]
- ... and probably some of the TF-AP participants should be able to make contribution for that
- 13:37:56 [kaz]
- johannes: before TPAC demonstration, we need to consider what to be modeled
- 13:38:11 [kaz]
- kajimoto: any idea to include any thing description into this?
- 13:38:26 [kaz]
- ... maybe good sample for that purpose
- 13:38:41 [kaz]
- johannes: good to provide some sample
- 13:39:15 [kaz]
- ... TF-TD could provide some notation for that
- 13:39:25 [kaz]
- sebastian: very good experience
- 13:39:46 [kaz]
- ... to decide what the basic model would be
- 13:39:48 [kaz]
- ... and see what is missing
- 13:40:47 [kaz]
- kaz: yeah, so we could think about some initial small profile of the Thing Description for this Plugfest use case
- 13:40:49 [kaz]
- sebastian: exactly
- 13:41:06 [kaz]
- johannes: we just started the discussion
- 13:41:20 [kaz]
- ... any more comments/questions on the Plugfest?
- 13:41:36 [kaz]
- ... we can have discussion on Github and the ML
- 13:41:47 [kaz]
- sebastian: yes
- 13:41:50 [kaz]
- ... btw, who would take the slot next week?
- 13:42:01 [kaz]
- johannes: next week for TD or AP?
- 13:42:26 [kaz]
- ... myself don't care :)
- 13:42:58 [kaz]
- sebastian: would like to have TD next week unless there is any specific opinion
- 13:43:01 [kaz]
- johannes: ok
- 13:43:18 [kaz]
- ... next Wed. 19th should be TD call
- 13:43:24 [kaz]
- ... and AP call on 26th
- 13:43:37 [kaz]
- ... if there is no objections
- 13:43:42 [kaz]
- s/is/are/
- 13:43:52 [kaz]
- sebastian: ok
- 13:44:03 [kaz]
- ... next week we'll have a TD call on 19th
- 13:44:16 [kaz]
- ... and AP on 26th
- 13:44:30 [kaz]
- ... also on Thursdays we'll have SP/DI calls
- 13:44:47 [kaz]
- ... we'll do that until TPAC
- 13:45:07 [kaz]
- johannes: need to leave now
- 13:45:31 [kaz]
- sebastian: would take over
- 13:45:47 [kaz]
- topic: TD report
- 13:46:00 [kaz]
- sebastian: shows the agenda of the Sunnyvale meeting
- 13:46:11 [kaz]
- ... outcome from the breakout
- 13:47:37 [Sebastian]
- https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/images/d/d1/Breakout_report_sunnyvale.pdf
- 13:48:02 [markusmaresch]
- markusmaresch has joined #wot
- 13:48:16 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 13:48:20 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 13:48:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 13:48:48 [kaz]
- sebastian: TD model
- 13:48:53 [kaz]
- ... minimal set of vocabulary
- 13:48:56 [kaz]
- ... data type
- 13:49:07 [kaz]
- ... JSON-LD examples
- 13:49:14 [kaz]
- (TD Model)
- 13:49:30 [kaz]
- sebastian: metadata component
- 13:49:47 [kaz]
- ... name of the things, product ID, etc.
- 13:50:02 [kaz]
- ... also includes what kind of protocols are supported
- 13:50:09 [kaz]
- ... encoding information
- 13:50:17 [kaz]
- ... EXI, JSON, etc.
- 13:50:27 [kaz]
- ... data and data type
- 13:50:51 [kaz]
- ... reuse existing data type
- 13:51:06 [kaz]
- ... refer to data types defined here
- 13:51:39 [kaz]
- ... interaction model pattern
- 13:51:46 [kaz]
- ... property, action and event
- 13:52:41 [kaz]
- ... that is the basic structure of the proposed Thing Description
- 13:53:25 [kaz]
- darko: information on APIs?
- 13:53:37 [kaz]
- ... accessible by get
- 13:53:54 [kaz]
- sebastian: this is a basic model
- 13:54:28 [kaz]
- ... what kind of property has which charasteristics depends on vocabulary
- 13:54:56 [kaz]
- ... what we're doing here is very abstract modelling
- 13:56:07 [kaz]
- ... if we have a concrete protocols, we need to think about how to map the protocol to this model
- 13:56:28 [kaz]
- ... would talk about a bit more concrete categories
- 13:56:47 [kaz]
- ... describe the components more precisely
- 13:56:56 [kaz]
- (Minimal Vocabulary Set)
- 13:57:23 [kaz]
- sebastian: metadata: name, protocols and encoding
- 13:57:47 [kaz]
- ... which has to be written
- 13:58:11 [kaz]
- ... could use some specific vendor's protocol
- 13:58:28 [kaz]
- ... could reuse existing ontologies like SSN
- 13:58:41 [kaz]
- ... data: xsd convention
- 13:58:57 [kaz]
- ... definition by XSD
- 13:59:16 [kaz]
- ... able to define data types and data access manners
- 13:59:40 [kaz]
- ... XSD is very powerful for that purpose
- 14:00:30 [kaz]
- ... and well-know property: name, input/output, writable
- 14:00:47 [kaz]
- s/know/known/
- 14:00:48 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:00:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 14:01:22 [kaz]
- ... need to clarify by TPAC
- 14:01:39 [kaz]
- (Data Type Definition)
- 14:01:52 [kaz]
- sebastian: rely on XSD data types
- 14:02:00 [kaz]
- ... define suitable subset
- 14:03:17 [kaz]
- ... proposals to be discussed during the next meetings
- 14:03:26 [kaz]
- (Examples in JSON-LD)
- 14:03:32 [kaz]
- sebastian: not finished yet
- 14:04:04 [kaz]
- (JSON-LD (Snippet))
- 14:04:33 [kaz]
- sebastian: IETF thing2thing meeting
- 14:05:08 [kaz]
- ... will continue the discussion on present sensor, switch, etc.
- 14:05:31 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/plugfest Plugfest scenario
- 14:05:56 [kaz]
- sebastiona: see "Things" section of the above plugfest scenario
- 14:06:18 [kaz]
- (For the next Web Meetings)
- 14:06:35 [kaz]
- sebastian: will check relevant security aspects
- 14:07:00 [kaz]
- ... volunteers for participation
- 14:07:08 [kaz]
- ... demonstrators
- 14:07:22 [kaz]
- ... that's it
- 14:07:37 [kaz]
- ... happy with the outcome from the Sunnyvale meeting
- 14:08:08 [kaz]
- ... questions?
- 14:08:14 [kaz]
- q+
- 14:09:07 [kaz]
- ack k
- 14:09:30 [kaz]
- kaz: what do you think about the possible collaboration between the TF-TD and the TF-AP?
- 14:09:47 [kaz]
- ... could both the TFs work together for the Plugfest demo at TPAC 2015?
- 14:10:24 [kaz]
- sebastian: unfortunately, couldn't attend the IETF meeting in Plag(?) itself
- 14:10:43 [kaz]
- s/Plag(?)/Plague/
- 14:11:13 [kaz]
- ... not full potential of TD for the demo but could provide some descriptions for that purpose
- 14:11:38 [kaz]
- ... would look more protocol implementations
- 14:12:24 [kaz]
- kaz: maybe we might want to have a joint call once a month, etc.
- 14:12:32 [kaz]
- sebastian: might be a good idea
- 14:12:47 [kaz]
- ... we'll share a same slot in any case
- 14:13:12 [kaz]
- topic: Report on Spatial Data by Darko
- 14:13:54 [kaz]
- darko: would inform on the Spatial Data group
- 14:13:59 [kaz]
- ... possible collaboration
- 14:14:26 [kaz]
- ... our focus is defining minimum vocabulary for Thing Description
- 14:14:46 [kaz]
- ... we might get help from other groups who work on related topics
- 14:15:06 [kaz]
- ... Spatial Data group works with the OGC
- 14:15:22 [kaz]
- ... related to vocabulary/ontology work
- 14:15:31 [kaz]
- ... trying to make ontology standard
- 14:15:46 [kaz]
- ... standard vocabulary for sensors
- 14:16:20 [kaz]
- ... our minimal vocabulary can be mapped with SSN ontology
- 14:16:30 [kaz]
- ... data provided by other sensors
- 14:16:47 [kaz]
- ... actuators as well
- 14:16:57 [kaz]
- ... semantic description for actuators is missing withing W3C
- 14:17:11 [kaz]
- ... Spatial Data group is working on actuators as well
- 14:17:19 [kaz]
- ... would input from us WoT IG
- 14:17:31 [kaz]
- ... requirements on vocabulary
- 14:17:55 [kaz]
- ... if we could provide requirements on semantic model for actuators
- 14:17:59 [kaz]
- ... would be great
- 14:18:37 [kaz]
- ... Carry Tailor (?) would input from us
- 14:18:50 [kaz]
- ... would have a joint session with us
- 14:18:54 [kaz]
- ... during TPAC
- 14:19:12 [kaz]
- sebastian: interesting
- 14:19:23 [kaz]
- ... ontology outside for sensors, etc.
- 14:20:12 [kaz]
- ... what should we do if we want to use that kind of ontology with Thing Description?
- 14:20:47 [kaz]
- ... how to handle company specific ontology?
- 14:21:01 [kaz]
- darko: a few examples describing sensors
- 14:21:19 [kaz]
- ... discovery on the basis of SSN ontology
- 14:21:35 [kaz]
- ... described by the Thing Description language?
- 14:21:56 [kaz]
- ... what the traditional aspect is like
- 14:22:21 [kaz]
- ... what is the capability of sensors?
- 14:22:32 [kaz]
- ... depending on the conditions
- 14:22:45 [kaz]
- ... important aspects for applications
- 14:23:08 [kaz]
- ... would be good to work with other groups who are taking cares
- 14:23:29 [kaz]
- ... query devices based on the capability descriptions
- 14:23:35 [kaz]
- sebastian: tx
- 14:23:46 [kaz]
- ... think we should invite them to our calls
- 14:24:01 [kaz]
- ... how does it fit with our model
- 14:24:10 [kaz]
- s/how/to see how/
- 14:24:57 [kaz]
- arne: make sense to find thing description model
- 14:25:21 [kaz]
- ... new version of SSN would include actuator capability
- 14:26:07 [kaz]
- sebasitan: building concepts based on the new version of SSN?
- 14:26:22 [kaz]
- arne: defining a light-weight profile based on that
- 14:26:51 [kaz]
- sebastian: would talk with related groups
- 14:27:05 [kaz]
- ... and let them know what kind of problems we have
- 14:27:25 [kaz]
- ... and see if we could simply reuse their mechanisms, e.g., SSN
- 14:27:32 [kaz]
- s/sebasitan:/sebastian:/
- 14:27:39 [kaz]
- darko: SSN is widely used
- 14:28:06 [kaz]
- ... would be better to see if SSN description suffices
- 14:28:23 [kaz]
- ... not actuators yet
- 14:28:54 [kaz]
- sebastian: we're getting out of time
- 14:29:22 [kaz]
- ... next week we'll start our TD call at this time
- 14:29:47 [kaz]
- ... and would have joint meetings like today
- 14:30:01 [kaz]
- [ adjourned ]
- 14:31:09 [kaz]
- Meeting: Web of Things IG - TF-AP/TF-TD joint meeting
- 14:31:20 [kaz]
- Chair: Johannes, Sebastian
- 14:31:28 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:31:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 14:32:18 [kaz]
- s/would have/would (from time to time) have/
- 14:32:20 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:32:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
- 14:54:04 [markusmaresch]
- markusmaresch has left #wot
- 15:08:40 [J_Lynn]
- J_Lynn has joined #wot
- 15:58:26 [taki]
- taki has left #wot
- 16:13:56 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wot
- 19:20:38 [thor]
- thor has joined #wot