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15:26:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/08/10-coga-irc
15:27:31 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets:Chaohai Ding ,Mary Jo Mueller
15:27:34 <Lisa_Seeman> Chair:Lisa_Seeman
15:27:35 <Lisa_Seeman> 
15:27:37 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this
15:27:38 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  review actions, and timelines
15:27:40 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  Issue papers - GA
15:27:42 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  Techniques -  GA
15:27:43 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  Next ftf ideas (TPAC and Katie suggestion)agenda+  Other issue papers
15:27:45 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ be done
15:55:56 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
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16:00:21 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets:Chaohai Ding ,Mary Jo Mueller, EA, Jamie Knight, Deborah Dahl
16:01:15 <Lisa_Seeman> scribe: Ayelet_Seeman
16:01:25 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
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16:02:13 <MichaelC> zakim, take up item 1
16:02:13 <Zakim> agendum 1. "review actions, and timelines" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
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16:06:03 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:06:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
16:06:21 <Lisa_Seeman> out todo list
16:06:23 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page#What_are_we_working_on_now.3F
16:07:18 <Ayelet_Seeman> Present+ Lisa_Seeman, Susane_Keohane, Tony_Doran, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Mike_Pluke, Michael_Cooper, Ayelet_Seeman
16:07:34 <Lisa_Seeman> action: john to update security paper and see if anything is missing from the tchnese and gap analis
16:07:34 <trackbot> 'john' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., jfoliot, JohnRochford).
16:07:44 <Lisa_Seeman> action: JohnRochford to update security paper and see if anything is missing from the tchnese and gap analis
16:07:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-126 - Update security paper and see if anything is missing from the tchnese and gap analis [on John Rochford - due 2015-08-17].
16:08:32 <Ayelet_Seeman> Present+ John_Rochford
16:09:50 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/techniques/index.html
16:10:05 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis
16:10:56 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS:in the techniques, one needs to see which  techniques are missing, and then see how it would fit (under which category.) if no relevant category could be found, the we may need to add a category
16:11:27 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... with the gap analysis we've got some more flexibility
16:12:39 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... we have the review from Jamie, as well as the metadata proposal and the proposal for graded help
16:13:14 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Meta_data_support
16:13:23 <Lisa_Seeman> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015Jul/0069.html
16:13:45 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... the first issue was Liddie's comment, who felt we should go more for RDFA and access for all, but we felt we preferred keeping it simpler
16:13:47 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Providing_graded_help
16:14:43 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: the modality issue paper hasn't been reviewed and needs a volunteer.
16:16:22 <Ayelet_Seeman> MP: was wondering whether aria be applicable also for mobile
16:17:54 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: if you could map stuff to aria you have support. it's actually a good reason to avoid going in the direction of RDFA
16:20:47 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Meta_data_support
16:22:29 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: sometimes one needs to provide as many alternative versions as needed. (such as what to do when there is a siren)
16:24:44 <Ayelet_Seeman> ...suggests adding metadata about the coga features, and linking to coga alternative content so that the alt content could be changed with out changing all links to it
16:24:59 <Lisa_Seeman> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015Jul/0069.html
16:27:48 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: alternative versions are sometimes better than adaptability - such as critical\emergency information, where people are making alternative versions anyway
16:28:38 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... additional contexts are ,educational content such as how to go to the bank, content intended for immigrants, etc.
16:29:05 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... we don't want to disinclude the best in favor of good
16:29:26 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... and this enables an easy way to find such content
16:29:58 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... are we comfortable with the proposal?
16:30:16 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... or do we not know enough about metadata
16:30:45 <Ayelet_Seeman> MP: there needs to be a tag somewhere
16:31:44 <Lisa_Seeman> action lisa review meta data with andy heath https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015Jul/0069.html
16:31:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-127 - Review meta data with andy heath https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015jul/0069.html [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-08-17].
16:31:54 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: this will be added to the page's metadata: <meta name="coga-feature" content="http://www.w3.org/TR/coga-techniques#vocab5000" />
16:32:12 <Lisa_Seeman> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015Jul/0069.html
16:33:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> Present+ Rich
16:33:10 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: it won't be enough - people won't build alternative pages for everything
16:34:43 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... suggests a new aria attribute of "aria-hasAlt", in order to provide alternatives which will have a default of hidden, but with the JSON scripts would be made visible
16:35:53 <Ayelet_Seeman> explanation: chunk means one idea at a time
16:38:07 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
16:38:55 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: if you have a long convoluted sentence you could use the easylang tag to provide a simpler version, though it doesn't let you specify how you're simplifying it
16:39:00 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/techniques/index.html#break-your-content-into-manageable-chunks
16:39:33 <Ayelet_Seeman> RS: is there a way to determine if something is a chunk?
16:40:28 <Tony_Doran> Concerned about losing context in chunking?
16:40:31 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: one idea per paragraph etc. (in the link)
16:41:03 <Ayelet_Seeman> RS: so we defined a cunk in the techniques
16:41:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/cunk/chunk/
16:41:25 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: could be called "manageable chunk
16:41:43 <Ayelet_Seeman> thanks Rich
16:41:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/10-coga-minutes.html MichaelC
16:42:05 <janina> present+ janina
16:42:29 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC_late
16:42:38 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
16:42:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/10-coga-minutes.html MichaelC
16:42:47 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: do we feel that the techniques don't fully describe what we need? (it's in the short term to do list)
16:43:05 <MichaelC> meeting: COGA
16:43:15 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... not seeing it there, so she's adding it
16:44:21 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... we primarily want the techniques to be descriptive, and secondarily testable, correcct?
16:46:49 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: For the images/symbols, used tags p0-p3 to tag the priority, but not's sure it's a good name
16:47:37 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... also different types of images - iconic/realistic
16:49:39 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... There are different types of extra help, such as aria-moreinfo  aria-extrahelp, aria-moreinfo value: URL, aria-extrahelp supported values: tooltip/humanhelp/morehelp/glossary/dictionary/thesaurus
16:50:53 <Ayelet_Seeman> JR: how many provide human help? and believes that human help should be in a different category
16:52:07 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS:  online chat for example, LS finds it annoying, for example
16:52:11 <Ayelet_Seeman> MP: uses more resources, and many people to prefer it. unsure how manageable it is
16:52:36 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: so do we want it in a different category?
16:54:45 <Ayelet_Seeman> JR: doesn't object, but thinks it's very different to the others
16:55:21 <Ayelet_Seeman> AS: thinks it seems similar on the user end, but different on the developer's end
16:55:59 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: it's a first draft, and we may want to word it better. suggests thinking about it and writing to the list
16:57:06 <Ayelet_Seeman> MP: suggests having a special feature so that human help is only available to people who need it
16:57:36 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS:such as with registeration, which opens a kettle of warms with privacy
16:58:02 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... wondering if human help should be removed, as we don't know what it would look like
16:58:37 <Lisa_Seeman> action lisa and mike to think though aria-extrahelp=”humanhelp” and possibly remove from proposal for now
16:58:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-128 - And mike to think though aria-extrahelp=”humanhelp” and possibly remove from proposal for now [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-08-17].
17:00:00 <Tony_Doran> Reminders? You mean distractions?
17:00:06 <Tony_Doran> :)
17:00:23 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: we might want different levels of reminders, because it will annoy some of the people
17:01:03 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... a normal reminder, such as your daughter's birthday, which most people want
17:01:58 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... one most  won't want, and one that ~5% will want
17:03:03 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... We also have levels for distracting features, such as ads. the problem is that no one wants them
17:04:08 <Ayelet_Seeman> MP: what is a distraction for one person is an oppurtunity for another. (such as do you want promotional offers or not)
17:05:58 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/techniques/index.htm
17:06:03 <Ayelet_Seeman> LS: additional attributes include screen reading, etc.
17:06:24 <Tony_Doran> need to drop off
17:07:20 <Ayelet_Seeman> ... We are passed the hour, so suggests people look at the techniques and see what they think
17:10:21 <Lisa_Seeman> thank u everyoen
17:10:33 <Ayelet_Seeman> rrsagent, create minutes
17:10:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/08/10-coga-minutes.html Ayelet_Seeman
17:10:57 <Ayelet_Seeman> rrsagent, make logs public
17:38:50 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, please part
17:38:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:39:04 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, please part
17:39:04 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/10-coga-actions.rdf :
17:39:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john to update security paper and see if anything is missing from the tchnese and gap analis [1]
17:39:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/10-coga-irc#T16-07-34
17:39:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JohnRochford to update security paper and see if anything is missing from the tchnese and gap analis [2]
17:39:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/10-coga-irc#T16-07-44