13:58:15 RRSAgent has joined #tt 13:58:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-irc 13:58:17 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:58:17 Zakim has joined #tt 13:58:19 Zakim, this will be TTML 13:58:19 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 13:58:20 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 13:58:20 Date: 30 July 2015 14:00:05 Present: nigel 14:00:15 Regrets: thierry, andreas 14:00:33 scribe: nigel 14:00:35 chair: nigel 14:01:55 Frans-EBU has joined #tt 14:03:30 Present+ pal, glenn, Frans 14:03:58 Topic: This Meeting 14:04:38 nigel: AOB? From me: the new W3 Process 14:05:02 group: no AOB 14:05:14 Topic: Action Items 14:06:02 action-409? 14:06:02 action-409 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida -- due 2015-07-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:06:02 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/409 14:06:53 nigel: Thanks pal for the email to the reflector earlier. 14:08:17 pal: I'm happy to draft that as a note for Unicode. 14:09:03 nigel: Your update addresses my feedback, and you've clarified that when localizedSets reference 14:09:16 ... commonSets they are *including* by reference. 14:10:30 pal has joined #tt 14:10:45 Action-409: [Meeting 2015-07-30] pal to draft a more formal text to send to Unicode, then check in with Richard Ishida, then Nigel (as chair) to send to Mark at Unicode when it's okay. 14:10:45 Notes added to Action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida. 14:12:37 nigel: I've mentioned the idea of this to at least one other group I'm working with and they wanted more detail but were in principle in favour, and could lend their support. 14:12:58 pal: I'll use this additional more concrete information to the draft liaison. 14:13:02 nigel: Sounds perfect. 14:13:44 Action: Issues 14:13:54 Topic: Issues 14:13:58 s/Action: Issues/ 14:14:08 issue-398? 14:14:08 issue-398 -- Add IMSC1 in title of IMSC1 -- pending review 14:14:08 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/398 14:14:32 nigel: Pierre has done this - it's a change of title of IMSC 1 as discussed. 14:15:08 pal: That's correct. 14:15:13 nigel: So now it's "TTML Profiles for Internet Media Subtitles and Captions 1.0 (IMSC1)" 14:15:24 close issue-398 14:15:24 Closed issue-398. 14:16:26 glenn: So you added (IMSC1) at the end. 14:16:34 nigel: and subtracted "Text and Image" 14:16:37 glenn: Looks good. 14:19:06 nigel: I have another issue that may be worth raising. Consider a ttm:agent that contains a 14:19:22 ... ttm:actor, which references that ttm:agent. 14:19:52 ... A naive implementation could process all the actors, find one that references its own parent, 14:20:19 ... follow that through, add an actor to the list, and loop forever. I don't think there's a substantive 14:20:41 ... problem with the spec, and it's a function of the naivety of the implementation, but we could 14:20:59 ... add an Informative Note to point out the problem at least. 14:22:13 glenn: I never thought of that possibility. I wonder if it makes sense semantically. 14:22:25 ... Let's open an issue for it, and we may want to create an errata for TTML1 that excludes that 14:22:37 ... usage unless we can think of a usage. 14:23:02 nigel: Okay I'll do that. The other possible resolution is to add an informative note warning 14:23:25 ... developers about the possibility. I think it's the only place in the spec where there is any chance 14:23:31 ... of having a circular reference in that way. 14:25:43 Action: nigel Raise issue regarding actor and agent references 14:25:43 Created ACTION-410 - Raise issue regarding actor and agent references [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-08-06]. 14:27:46 nigel: Another resolution might be to remove the ability to contain an actor in agent. 14:27:53 glenn: That's a major structural change. 14:27:56 nigel: Yes it would be! 14:28:29 nigel: Okay I'll go ahead and raise that issue against TTML1. 14:28:57 glenn: It'd be interesting to see what I did in the TTV verifier for this. I don't think I have a test case for it. 14:29:18 Topic: TPAC 2015 14:29:43 nigel: We have a wiki page, registration is open, we have a schedule. 14:30:01 nigel: For the agenda, I think we need something about HTMLCue and meeting with HTML WG, 14:30:33 ... something about charter renewal, presumably some TTML2 review, hopefully some TTML-WebVTT 14:30:37 ... mapping review work also. 14:31:38 nigel: I may add to the Charter discussion some work BBC has been doing on responsive subtitles 14:31:50 ... where work would be needed on the presentation behaviour, which would likely be 14:33:22 ... interesting to many people. Also on a similar topic, APIs for modifying presentation dependent 14:33:33 ... on other on-screen user interface elements that may clash with subtitles or captions. 14:34:00 glenn: That seems like a very generic question. It seems like it's out of the scope of TTML but 14:34:13 ... in scope of how TTML is embedded in some processing environment. 14:34:57 nigel: Well since condition was introduced to TTML2, if you're prepared to permit on the fly 14:35:14 ... processing of conditions then that could be used to do this, by setting parameters that 14:35:19 ... result in different presentation. 14:35:37 glenn: That's true, there are a lot of ways to conditionalise the content. Certainly you could 14:35:46 ... author the content based on defined states. 14:37:15 ... Do they have specific scenarios in mind? 14:37:54 nigel: Yes, they do, such as "controls are visible", "advert is visible" etc. but the more general 14:38:19 ... mechanism might be to signal priorities and layers and areas of the screen to avoid or prefer. 14:38:39 ... Or another way would be to expose as an API some of the processing details of the TTML and 14:39:06 ... allow e.g. javascript events to modify positions as a result. 14:39:42 glenn: You could have a generic accessor for environment variables that could be used to affect 14:40:00 ... presentation. That content wouldn't be truly portable unless we define the names ourselves, 14:40:24 ... but if we're doing that then we don't need the generic getEnv('xxx') approach. 14:41:12 Topic: IMSC CR2, Test Suite and Implementation Report 14:42:36 nigel: Someone pointed out recently that https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/file/tip/ttml-ww-profiles/testsuite/multiRowAlign/multiRowAlign1.ttml 14:42:45 ... isn't actually EBU-TT-D compatible. 14:43:26 Frans: Yes, that uses named colours - it would be nice if they could be hex colours. There are one 14:43:37 ... or two other changes too. I can summarise them in an issue. 14:44:00 nigel: The wider point for me is: would it cause any problems to change tests at this stage? 14:44:07 pal: I can't think of any reason not to do it. 14:44:15 Frans: Shall I raise this as an issue then? 14:44:46 Action: Frans Raise an issue requesting that IMSC 1 tests for multiRowAlign and linePadding be made fully EBU-TT-D compatible. 14:44:46 Created ACTION-411 - Raise an issue requesting that imsc 1 tests for multirowalign and linepadding be made fully ebu-tt-d compatible. [on Frans de Jong - due 2015-08-06]. 14:46:08 Topic: AOB 14:46:19 nigel: I wanted to mention the new W3 Process document. 14:46:34 ... It's at http://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/ 14:48:06 nigel: Changes are summarised at the end. This will apply to us from 1 September with no 14:48:13 ... further action required for us to adopt it. 14:50:13 ... The only thing I can see that could affect us is ยง6.3.2 that recommends us to publish new 14:50:30 ... WDs of WDs that haven't changed in the last 6 months. That might apply to WebVTT and TTML2 14:50:42 ... if we haven't published a new version by 1 September, but it's a SHOULD not a SHALL. 14:51:58 nigel: We've hit the end of our agenda, so I'll adjourn. Have a good week everyone! [adjourns meeting] 14:52:14 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:52:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:54:49 s/pal: I'll use this/pal: I'll add this 14:55:50 s/usage unless/usage, unless 14:58:01 s/Someone pointed out/Frans pointed out 14:58:23 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:58:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:00:15 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:00:15 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:00:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:06:55 Zakim has left #tt 16:10:19 nigel_ has joined #tt 16:11:41 nigel__ has joined #tt