IRC log of sdw on 2015-07-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:01:55 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:01:57 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
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13:01:58 [phila]
present+ phila
13:01:59 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SDW
13:01:59 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
13:02:00 [trackbot]
Date: 29 July 2015
13:02:10 [kerry]
present+ kerry
13:02:20 [kerry]
chair: kerry
13:02:26 [ahaller2]
13:02:43 [jtandy]
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scribe: armin
13:02:53 [phila]
present+ Alejandro_Llaves, SimonCox, Linda, BartvanLeeuwen, Armin, Bill, Kerry, Matt
13:02:55 [jtandy]
present+ jtandy
13:03:20 [kerry]
scribenick: ahaller2
13:03:26 [joshlieberman]
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13:03:31 [phila]
regrets+ Lars Svensson, Rachel Heaven, Ed Parsons, Clemens Portele, Stefan Lemme
13:03:44 [ahaller2]
present+ ahaller2
13:03:45 [phila]
regrets+ Lewis
13:03:46 [MattPerry]
present+ MattPerry
13:03:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
13:04:19 [AndreaPerego]
present+ AndreaPerego
13:04:50 [joshlieberman]
present+ joshlieberman
13:05:04 [phila]
proposed: Accept last week's minutes
13:05:12 [kerry]
13:05:24 [AndreaPerego]
Was not there.
13:05:28 [Alejandro_Llaves]
13:05:30 [jtandy]
13:05:35 [Linda]
13:05:37 [phila]
13:05:48 [phila]
resolved: Accept last week's minutes
13:06:00 [phila]
13:06:07 [ahaller2]
Kerry: Patent Call
13:06:13 [phila]
ack me
13:06:39 [ahaller2]
phila: Patent Call is important
13:07:12 [Alejandro_Llaves]
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13:07:27 [ahaller2]
... on the W3C side of things, an automated email will be send to the group which asks the same question as the OGC patent call.
13:08:52 [ahaller2]
Kerry: Use Cases and Requirements, two issues to resolve today
13:09:00 [kerry]
13:09:24 [kerry]
13:09:46 [ahaller2]
... ISSUE-21: phrasing of the linkability requirement
13:10:09 [kerry]
13:10:23 [Alejandro_Llaves]
"Spatial data on the Web should be linkable (by explicit relationships between different data in different data sets), to other spatial data and to or from other types of data."
13:10:42 [ahaller2]
Alejandro: 'facts' were changed to 'features'
13:11:36 [ahaller2]
... 'explicit relationships between data' is the new proposal
13:11:36 [AndreaPerego]
"Feature" is a notion that is not straightforward for non-specialists.
13:11:49 [phila]
I like that wording
13:11:49 [jtandy]
13:11:55 [billroberts]
present+ billroberts
13:12:15 [phila]
13:12:15 [trackbot]
issue-21 -- phrasing of the linkability requirement -- pending review
13:12:15 [trackbot]
13:12:26 [jtandy]
13:12:27 [kerry]
13:12:29 [ahaller2]
jtandy: like the current wording
13:12:49 [phila]
RESOLVED: That Issue-21 be rephrased as shown above
13:12:52 [joshlieberman]
"facts" is sufficiently generic as to not cause problems, I suppose.
13:13:00 [ahaller2]
... ISSUE-21 resolved as discussed with new phrasing
13:13:14 [kerry]
13:13:17 [SimonCox]
@josh - 'facts' now changed to 'data'
13:13:44 [ahaller2]
kerry: ISSUE-22 next to discuss
13:14:09 [joshlieberman]
@SimonCox -- just can't keep up...
13:14:10 [Alejandro_Llaves]
"There should be a standardised way for expressing spatial relationships between spatial entities. These relationships can be topological, mereological, directional or distance related."
13:14:21 [ahaller2]
Alejandro: change of phrasing, changed to 'spatial relationships'
13:14:30 [kerry]
13:14:46 [ahaller2]
13:14:51 [SimonCox]
13:14:53 [phila]
Seems like a no brainer to me
13:14:54 [kerry]
13:14:56 [Linda]
13:14:56 [phila]
13:14:57 [MattPerry]
13:14:57 [billroberts]
13:14:58 [Alejandro_Llaves]
13:14:59 [jtandy]
'spatial relationships' works for me ... didn't know what meronymy meant!
13:15:02 [BartvanLeeuwen]
13:15:04 [jtandy]
13:15:11 [ahaller2]
ISSUE-22 resolved, using new wording
13:15:17 [SimonCox]
Voges out for 16
13:15:25 [AndreaPerego]
13:15:26 [phila]
RESOLVED: Close Issue-22 using new wording
13:16:11 [kerry]
ack andrea
13:16:29 [joshlieberman]
13:16:36 [ahaller2]
Andrea: can we use another term than mereological
13:16:49 [SimonCox]
13:16:51 [ahaller2]
... can we find another way to rephrase it?
13:16:56 [SimonCox]
13:17:13 [ahaller2]
13:17:51 [ahaller2]
Kerry: It is in the Use Case document, not Best practises, acceptable for me
13:18:09 [ahaller2]
jtandy: Did not know that the word existed 20 minutes ago
13:18:17 [SimonCox]
13:18:24 [ahaller2]
Kerry: Are we happy to leave it?
13:18:41 [ahaller2]
jtandy: Happy as it is if it is an example
13:18:42 [ahaller2]
13:18:43 [phila]
-> A definition of Mereology
13:18:53 [Linda]
13:18:56 [billroberts]
13:18:57 [kerry]
13:18:59 [joshlieberman]
13:19:01 [Alejandro_Llaves]
13:19:07 [MattPerry]
13:19:11 [BartvanLeeuwen]
13:19:32 [jtandy]
13:19:40 [kerry]
topic: best practice editors' report
13:19:43 [AndreaPerego]
+1 but it should leave open the possibility of replacing it with something less specialistic
13:19:52 [ahaller2]
jtandy: URI of the Wiki page for the BP Consolidation
13:20:20 [ahaller2]
... we have 1-17, 32-41 of the use cases are consolidated now
13:20:31 [jtandy]
13:20:32 [Alejandro_Llaves]
13:20:47 [ahaller2]
s/cases are/cases
13:21:01 [SimonCox]
Comments on the GeoJSON list: "seems to be taking a shotgun approach with many people throwing in their favorite bits. I’d hate to imagine the outcome if a committee were to design something based on it. "
13:21:11 [ahaller2]
... aim was to make them easy to find in search engines
13:21:30 [SimonCox]
(That's comments on the UCR document)
13:21:36 [ahaller2]
... and other considerations in the discussion page on the wiki
13:22:15 [ChrisLittle]
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13:23:06 [ChrisLittle]
zakim present
13:23:12 [phila]
q+ to talk about Berlin
13:23:14 [phila]
present+ Chris
13:23:25 [ahaller2]
Kerry: publishing a spatial data, consumers can use the data in some other context, and want the data be usable
13:23:30 [ChrisLittle]
zakim present+
13:23:45 [kerry]
13:23:54 [ahaller2]
13:24:04 [joshlieberman]
13:24:11 [jtandy]
13:24:15 [ahaller2]
jtandy: if you have ideas like the one kerry raised, please put them on the wiki
13:25:08 [ahaller2]
... common themes are, linking data, publishing data with clear semantics
13:25:36 [ahaller2]
... partial overlap with data on the web best practise group
13:25:53 [ahaller2]
... third theme, expose datasets through APIs
13:26:29 [ahaller2]
... enabling discoverability is another theme
13:26:40 [ahaller2]
... assigning identifiers is fifth theme
13:26:54 [ahaller2]
... expressing geospatial information is the last theme
13:27:45 [ahaller2]
... linda provided another use case, geometry is 95% of the data size in the Dutch use case
13:28:27 [ahaller2]
Linda: put this in the use case as a question, if optimisation is needed
13:28:37 [joshlieberman]
Is this an argument for implementing the distinction between feature and geometry, so that geometries can be linked in as needed?
13:28:54 [ahaller2]
jtandy: implication of performance in queries with polygons with for example 5000 points
13:29:46 [Alejandro_Llaves]
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13:30:01 [ahaller2]
... the number of times new things are coming out is slowing down, so I am comfortable there won't be too many other themes
13:30:17 [kerry]
13:30:24 [ahaller2]
Kerry: the themes make sense to me
13:30:25 [kerry]
ack phila
13:30:25 [Zakim]
phila, you wanted to talk about Berlin
13:30:29 [SimonCox]
Jeremy's brain is disorganized in prose, but awesome in pictures!
13:31:23 [kerry]
13:31:25 [ahaller2]
phila: some of the use cases at the bottom of the document make references to the earlier ones, which might make it easier for you, jeremy
13:31:28 [phila]
-> Berlin Workshop
13:31:36 [ahaller2]
... I am organizing a workshop in Berlin
13:32:13 [ahaller2]
... location as discussed by kerry is a use case, how do I authoritatively refer to a location in my dataset
13:32:31 [ahaller2]
... the group members that are close should consider to participate
13:32:45 [ahaller2]
... EU project Share PSI is organising it
13:33:03 [ahaller2]
... hosted by Fraunhofer
13:33:17 [kerry]
13:33:27 [kerry]
ack josh
13:33:36 [ahaller2]
Josh: Happy to see that the first theme is linking
13:34:27 [ahaller2]
... it is important to have clear semantics of the entity that is linked to
13:35:29 [ahaller2]
... directionality is important in use cases, having links to go to the data this data is derived from is valuable for findability
13:36:04 [ahaller2]
... who is using the data should be a part of the theme
13:36:13 [kerry]
13:36:39 [kerry]
13:36:43 [ahaller2]
jtandy: backlinks are equally important, put it under enabling discoverability
13:37:57 [ahaller2]
... we need to think hard how we can enable these backlinks in our best practise document
13:38:45 [kerry]
13:38:46 [ahaller2]
... we may need to create our own examples for that
13:39:05 [Linda]
13:39:09 [kerry]
ack kerry
13:39:32 [ahaller2]
Kerry: could not see the backlinks coming up in any use case
13:39:47 [ahaller2]
... if it is important we should have a use case
13:39:47 [kerry]
13:40:19 [ahaller2]
jtandy: e.g. I arrive in a new place, what is available near me?
13:40:44 [ChrisLittle]
13:40:51 [kerry]
ack linda
13:40:52 [AndreaPerego]
q+ to ask what we mean with linkable geometries
13:41:03 [ahaller2]
Kerry: maybe not the best use case, but we can find one
13:41:19 [billroberts]
q+ backlinks use case
13:41:30 [ahaller2]
Linda: developed a testbed
13:41:32 [billroberts]
q+ to talk about a use case for backlinks
13:41:41 [ahaller2]
... would like to share it with the group
13:41:46 [ahaller2]
... to get feedback
13:41:51 [jtandy]
+1 from me to Linda's offer to share ideas about test-beds
13:42:23 [ahaller2]
... expect it to be ready end of this week or next
13:42:37 [kerry]
13:42:37 [ahaller2]
Kerry: rather put it on the wiki
13:42:46 [kerry]
ack chris
13:42:55 [SimonCox]
Chipmunk Chris again
13:43:26 [ahaller2]
13:43:31 [SimonCox]
Almost as funny as the cricket
13:43:31 [joshlieberman]
Take those acorns out of your mouth!
13:44:38 [kerry]
chis, can you type on the irc?
13:44:48 [ahaller2]
13:45:12 [ChrisLittle]
give up on audio suggest that use case is critical data sent out, need to update who did we send to?
13:45:14 [kerry]
13:46:03 [kerry]
ack andrea
13:46:03 [Zakim]
AndreaPerego, you wanted to ask what we mean with linkable geometries
13:46:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
13:47:26 [billroberts]
+1 to separating feature and geometry
13:47:45 [ahaller2]
Andrea: wondered whether make links more explicit, big geometries that are attached to data may require that
13:48:28 [ahaller2]
jtandy: I will put this one up on the wiki
13:48:39 [kerry]
13:48:51 [ahaller2]
... treat geometries as first class citizens
13:49:54 [kerry]
ack bill
13:49:54 [Zakim]
billroberts, you wanted to talk about a use case for backlinks
13:49:58 [ahaller2]
Bill: if geometries are only defined as part of features, other people can not reference the geometry. Geometries with URIs gives them equality
13:49:59 [AndreaPerego]
An example from Ian Davis (back in 2003):
13:51:03 [kerry]
13:51:46 [ChrisLittle]
get Bill to write that down
13:51:59 [phila]
13:52:04 [ahaller2]
yes please
13:52:19 [phila]
-> NeoGeo
13:52:20 [kerry]
ack phila
13:52:47 [ahaller2]
phila: neogeo does exactly that according to my understanding, geometry as a first class citizen
13:53:10 [kerry]
topic: ceo-ld
13:53:24 [phila]
-> CEO-LD project
13:53:40 [ahaller2]
phila: small project, between UK and China
13:53:56 [ahaller2]
... W3C and Codata
13:54:21 [BartvanLeeuwen]
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13:55:04 [ahaller2]
... experts in satellite and earth observation data come together to enable this group to write the coverage deliverable
13:55:31 [ahaller2]
... offering to help, but not taking over this deliverable
13:55:57 [ahaller2]
... our SDW group still has the authority, the ceo-ld group is only there to help
13:56:26 [ChrisLittle]
CEO may cause confusion: international Committee for Earth Observations
13:56:44 [ahaller2]
jtandy: will be on holiday for the next meetin
13:56:50 [ahaller2]
13:57:04 [ahaller2]
Kerry: reminder to register for TPAC
13:57:12 [phila]
-> TPAC page
13:57:18 [AndreaPerego]
Won't be able to come.
13:57:33 [kerry]
13:57:40 [ahaller2]
... tell us on this page if you are coming
13:57:41 [frans]
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13:57:49 [AndreaPerego]
13:57:49 [Alejandro_Llaves]
13:57:54 [SimonCox]
FWIW - Australia 99/7, Rogers 50 n.o. - rain stops play
13:58:17 [phila]
ack AndreaPerego
13:58:19 [kerry]
ack andrea
13:58:47 [ahaller2]
andrea: use cases missing?
13:59:26 [ahaller2]
Kerry: the github version is still developing, but the other document was frozen about 3 weeks ago
14:00:09 [phila]
It was frozen following the WG resolution in early June, modulo the editors adding in links to the open issues (which was the resolution). I expect a new version to be published simultaneously with the FPWD of the BP doc
14:00:37 [ahaller2]
Kerry: the use case documents will be a working document up until the end of this working group potentially
14:01:09 [phila]
ack a
14:01:11 [kerry]
14:01:26 [Alejandro_Llaves]
14:01:38 [ahaller2]
Alejandro: Simon wrote down that there were some interesting comments in the geojson mailing list
14:01:38 [joshlieberman]
--with a grain of salt--
14:02:08 [frans]
present+ frans
14:02:48 [ahaller2]
Kerry: if the comments are not submitted yet to our public comment list, we should suggest to them to do so
14:03:02 [ahaller2]
Simon: will do that
14:03:05 [ChrisLittle]
14:03:09 [joshlieberman]
14:03:09 [BartvanLeeuwen]
14:03:12 [Alejandro_Llaves]
thanks, bye!
14:03:12 [jtandy]
14:03:12 [Linda]
14:03:12 [AndreaPerego]
Thanks and bye
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I have made the request to generate phila
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