18:41:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:41:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/28-aapi-irc
18:41:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:41:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:41:11 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:41:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:41:12 <trackbot> Date: 28 July 2015
18:41:22 <clown> agenda: this
18:41:30 <clown> agenda+ Meeting for the next two weeks.
18:42:24 <clown> RRSAgent, stop
18:44:32 <clown> agenda: this
18:44:38 <clown> agenda+ Meeting for the next two weeks.
18:44:48 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1680/ACTION-1686: (All) Assign actions for mappings of aria-errormessage
18:44:58 <clown> agenda+ New: (All) Need actions for mappings of aria-kbdshorcuts
18:45:05 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1625: (Joseph, All) Update re: aria-interactive property.
18:45:15 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1660/ISSUE-714 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-roledescription.
18:45:22 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1662/ISSUE-714 (Alex) IA2 mapping of aria-roledescription.
18:45:29 <clown> agenda+ Bugzilla-28816 (All)  Some ARIA roles lacking explicit a11y API role mappings.
18:45:40 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1667: (Joseph) Update the mappings for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec.
18:45:55 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1608: (Joseph) Propose new wording, as an editorial change only to clarify the inclusion rules in section 5.1.2.
18:46:03 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1622: (Alex) MSAA+IA2 mapping of aria-placeholder.
18:46:12 <clown> agenda+ Action/issue triage (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23)
18:46:20 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:58:41 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:58:46 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:01:14 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:02:15 <joanie> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:03:11 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #aapi
19:03:23 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya_Siegman
19:03:38 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:03:42 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:04:00 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:12:50 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
19:12:56 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:12:56 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Meeting for the next two weeks." taken up [from clown]
19:13:07 <joanie> JS: As of next week and the following week, I'm on vacation.
19:13:13 <joanie> JS: Do people want to meet anyway?
19:13:17 <joanie> BG: Nah.
19:13:25 <joanie> JD: I can go either way.
19:13:49 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:13:49 <joanie> BG: I can also go either way.
19:14:05 <joanie> CS: I would be happy to have the time. I'll be out August 10th through 23rd.
19:14:24 <joanie> JS: I can hold the meeting on the 18th, but you won't be there.
19:14:39 <joanie> JS: Can I leave it to you guys to work this out? Set up agenda and room, etc.?
19:14:44 <joanie> JS: Any volunteers?
19:14:49 <joanie> BG: I'll pass.
19:15:04 <joanie> JS: Otherwise I'll send an email cancelling the meeting.
19:15:05 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:15:24 <joanie> JS: I'll do that. If you all decide otherwise, you can set that up.
19:16:13 <joanie> JS: I encourage you to look at your action items and do them, also see what's overdue, etc.
19:16:43 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:16:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1680/ACTION-1686: (All) Assign actions for mappings of aria-errormessage" taken up [from clown]
19:16:55 <clown> action-1680?
19:16:55 <trackbot> action-1680 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Draft aria-errormessage property for review - may be at risk in aria 1.1 though -- due 2015-07-16 -- CLOSED
19:16:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1680
19:17:15 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-errormessage
19:17:16 <joanie> JS: I had an action to draft the aria-errormessage text. It's at the URL above.
19:17:32 <joanie> JS: And it's tentatively accepted as part of the spec, though it's still an editor's draft.
19:17:41 <joanie> JS: Assuming it stays, we need to figure out how it's mapped.
19:17:48 <joanie> JS: I'd like to create those actions right now.
19:17:57 <clown> action:  Cynthia to propose UIA mapping for aria-errormessage.
19:17:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1691 - Propose uia mapping for aria-errormessage. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-08-04].
19:18:06 <clown> action-1691?
19:18:06 <trackbot> action-1691 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose uia mapping for aria-errormessage. -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:18:06 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1691
19:18:47 <clown> action: joanie to propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-errormessage
19:18:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1692 - Propose atk/at-spi mapping for aria-errormessage [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-08-04].
19:18:52 <clown> action-1692?
19:18:52 <trackbot> action-1692 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose atk/at-spi mapping for aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:18:52 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1692
19:20:34 <clown> action:  Surkhov to propose MSAA+IA2 mapping for aria-errormessage
19:20:35 <trackbot> Error finding 'Surkhov'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
19:20:51 <clown> action:  Surkov to propose MSAA+IA2 mapping for aria-errormessage
19:20:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1693 - Propose msaa+ia2 mapping for aria-errormessage [on Alexander Surkov - due 2015-08-04].
19:21:57 <clown> action: JamesC to propose AXAPI mapping of aria-errormessage
19:21:57 <trackbot> Error finding 'JamesC'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
19:22:06 <clown> action: JamesCraig to propose AXAPI mapping of aria-errormessage
19:22:07 <trackbot> Error finding 'JamesCraig'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
19:22:13 <clown> action: James Craig to propose AXAPI mapping of aria-errormessage
19:22:13 <trackbot> 'James' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., jcraig, jhawkins2, jnurthen).
19:22:24 <clown> action: jcraig to propose AXAPI mapping of aria-errormessage
19:22:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1694 - Propose axapi mapping of aria-errormessage [on James Craig - due 2015-08-04].
19:23:12 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:23:12 <Zakim> agendum 3. "New: (All) Need actions for mappings of aria-kbdshorcuts" taken up [from clown]
19:23:24 <joanie> JS: Similarly, we need actions for aria-kbdshortcuts.
19:23:31 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-kbdshortcuts
19:23:42 <joanie> JS: URL for this property in the spec is above.
19:23:59 <clown> action:  Cynthia to propose UIA mapping for aria-kbdshortcuts
19:23:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1695 - Propose uia mapping for aria-kbdshortcuts [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-08-04].
19:24:07 <clown> action-1695
19:24:07 <trackbot> action-1695 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose uia mapping for aria-kbdshortcuts -- due 2015-08-04 -- OPEN
19:24:07 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1695
19:25:38 <clown> action:  joanie to propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts
19:25:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1696 - Propose atk/at-spi mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-08-04].
19:26:37 <clown> action: Surkov to propose MSAA+IA2 mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts
19:26:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1697 - Propose msaa+ia2 mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts [on Alexander Surkov - due 2015-08-04].
19:27:26 <clown> action: jcriag to propose AXAPI mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts
19:27:26 <trackbot> Error finding 'jcriag'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
19:27:34 <clown> action: jcraig to propose AXAPI mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts
19:27:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1698 - Propose axapi mapping of aria-kbdshortcuts [on James Craig - due 2015-08-04].
19:31:29 <joanie> (Group briefly discusses that implications of the not-interactivity for a mapping via AtkAction)
19:31:41 <joanie> CS: I've not yet read the spec text, but there may be some issues.
19:31:52 <joanie> JS: I think there will be some further discussion about this.
19:32:05 <joanie> JS: Dominic is in favor of this, as is Rich.
19:32:25 <joanie> JS: James Craig started out against it. The last thing I read, he seemed like he was on the fence.
19:32:34 <joanie> CS: I'll read through it.
19:32:51 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:32:51 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1625: (Joseph, All) Update re: aria-interactive property." taken up [from clown]
19:32:58 <clown> action-1625>
19:32:58 <trackbot> action-1625 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add interactive property to core mappings that propogates from grid or table to all grid aria grid or table structural elements. the interactive property should have same mapping as defined in issue 633 -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN
19:32:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1625
19:33:23 <joanie> JS: This is a heads-up.
19:33:40 <joanie> JS: The stuff related to grid and table is no longer relevant.
19:34:03 <joanie> JS: But there is still some interest in having this property for other elements as a way to communicate "hands off" to ATs.
19:34:10 <joanie> JS: But we need spec text before we can map it.
19:34:21 <joanie> JS: James N is working on this text.
19:34:30 <joanie> JS: So keep this in the back of your mind.
19:34:38 <joanie> JS: I think James is going to present his text this Thursday.
19:35:11 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:35:11 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1660/ISSUE-714 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-roledescription." taken up [from clown]
19:35:21 <clown> action-1660?
19:35:21 <trackbot> action-1660 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose the ATK/AT-SPI mappings for aria-roledescription. -- due 2015-06-30 -- OPEN
19:35:21 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1660
19:36:47 <joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-roledescription
19:38:52 <joanie> JD: I've already stated an object attribute in the comments. What additional information would you like from me?
19:39:06 <joanie> JS: Ok, so I guess I need to check with Alex about IA2.
19:39:36 <clown> scribenick:
19:39:43 <clown> scribenick: clown
19:39:53 <joanie> https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html#atk-role-get-localized-name
19:39:58 <clown> JD: Having deja vu that we already talked about this.
19:40:20 <clown> JD:  The URL above documents the loclaized name.
19:40:45 <clown> JD:  It takes the name of the object and localizes it, not the role name.
19:41:34 <clown> JS:  I may have mis-scribed.
19:41:56 <clown> JD:  It takes a role like ATK_ROLE_CHECKBOX...
19:42:11 <clown> JD:  And asks the UA for the localized name of that.
19:43:21 <joanie> <button aria-roledescription="Attach a file button">Foo!</button>
19:45:22 <clown> CS:  It's similar to UIA's localized control type, which is up to the developer.
19:45:31 <clown> CS:  And Apple has something similar.
19:45:50 <clown> CS:  While I have misgivings, I think it's something that is needed.
19:46:50 <clown> JD:  Take a look at the example in the spec for the "slide" description.
19:46:58 <clown> JD:  That's being used for a role of "region".
19:47:10 <clown> JD: Does that mean that all regions are now slides?
19:47:36 <clown> JD:  No.  So the role description is associated with the element in question, not a particular role.
19:48:11 <clown> JD: Hence, the ATK role-get-localized-name() doesn't apply since that works with an ATK role.
19:48:35 <clown> JS:  I get it.  Okay, then we can't use ATK's role-get-localized-name() function.
19:48:53 <joanie> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/interface_i_accessible2.html#acb64a9802aefaf4c61a78273aa3ee7d7
19:48:59 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:49:05 <clown> JD:  I'm looking at IA2 now, and see if I can get a link to get extended role.
19:49:20 <joanie> JD: I *think* the API above might be appropriate for IA2.
19:51:35 <joanie> JD: So in answer to your original question, Joseph, I'm not sure if IA2 has a need for an object attribute.
19:52:44 <joanie> JD: As a result, I may need to check with Alex Surkov and James Teh.
19:52:55 <joanie> JS: Ok, I'll update the due date to next week so you can do that.
19:53:19 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:53:19 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1662/ISSUE-714 (Alex) IA2 mapping of aria-roledescription." taken up [from clown]
19:54:12 <joanie> JS: I did send an email earlier today. Basically asking if he's had time to consider it. I CCed Joanie. I mentioned the mappings might be similar, etc.
19:54:28 <joanie> Zakim, next item.
19:54:28 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Bugzilla-28816 (All)  Some ARIA roles lacking explicit a11y API role mappings." taken up [from clown]
19:54:42 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28816
19:55:23 <joanie> JS: To summarize things, Jason Kiss pointed out a list of ARIA roles which he noticed there was no explicit mapping in the spec.
19:55:32 <joanie> JS: He thinks there should be official roles.
19:55:37 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28816#c16
19:55:38 <joanie> JS: It's bounced back and forth.
19:56:09 <joanie> JS: (Reads from comment 16 of above URL)
19:56:26 <joanie> JS: Alex is saying, use the role itself for the role property.
19:56:41 <joanie> JS: And then expose it via xml-roles property.
19:56:55 <joanie> CS: But that's not how ARIA works. We can talk about that for ARIA 2.0.
19:57:25 <joanie> CS: This issue was dealt with in a meeting between HTML and ARIA in/around 2004 or 2005.
19:57:55 <joanie> CS: This is the implicit semantics and strong native semantics. It's covered in both the HTML and ARIA specs.
19:58:07 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#host_languages
19:58:14 <joanie> CS: ARIA wins, except for several special cases which were discussed at the meeting in 2004/2005.
19:58:25 <joanie> JS: Is the above URL the relevant part of the spec?
19:58:50 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#implicit_semantics
19:58:50 <joanie> CS: I think 7.4 or 7.5.
19:59:00 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#host_general_conflict
19:59:13 <joanie> JS: Do you know where it is in the HTML5 spec?
20:00:29 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dom.html#wai-aria
20:01:28 <cyns_> cyns_ has joined #aapi
20:01:34 <cyns_> http://www.w3.org/TR/html/dom.html#wai-aria
20:01:48 <joanie> CS: It's section 3.2.7.
20:02:04 <joanie> CS: It's covered in length in both.
20:02:18 <joanie> CS: I'm fine with opening this up for Web Apps, WAPA, ARIA 2.0.
20:02:26 <joanie> CS: But for ARIA 1.x it's decided.
20:02:37 <joanie> JS: Does that mean what Alex is saying and Firefox is doing is wrong?
20:03:13 <joanie> JS: If you use role="banner", if you use it with a table element, the role is table.
20:03:26 <joanie> JS: So they're defining the accessibility role based on the element.
20:03:37 <joanie> CS: I think that's incorrect.
20:03:57 <joanie> CS: What we do is map it to group and then expose it via localized role attribute.
20:04:03 <clown> <table role="banner">
20:04:38 <joanie> JD: We have ATK_ROLE_LANDMARK.
20:05:06 <joanie> JS: I encourage you (Cynthia) and Joanie to look at this bugzilla issue and discuss.
20:05:21 <joanie> JS: If you'd like, I'll bring it up on Thursday.
20:05:34 <joanie> JS: I don't think we can fit it in this week, so it will be towards the end of August.
20:06:52 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:06:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:06:59 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop