14:59:15 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 14:59:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/21-hcls-irc 14:59:16 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:59:17 Zakim has joined #hcls 14:59:18 Zakim, this will be HCLS 14:59:19 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:59:20 Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference 14:59:20 Date: 21 July 2015 15:01:05 rhausam has joined #HCLS 15:04:32 scribenick: ericP 15:05:01 Topic: Term Info 15:05:14 Lloyd has joined #HCLS 15:06:36 eric: There's the problem of things that can be said in the info model, and you can go back and forth. And there's the notion that an uniform representation would allow you to coerce both of those into the same model, and then it woulwn't matter which way it came in. 15:07:22 ... If i parse it from a microparse model from snomed, alll the concepts have representations as act relationships and that allows you to populate an info model that looks like what you would have got if you had gottten all atomic snomed terms. 15:07:32 ... But i never actually wrote the microparser. 15:07:38 ... Anyone else working on that? 15:07:54 Rob: Don't know that anyone has done that. 15:08:21 ... Not seen anyone do the transform between RIM models and back and forth, but I'm hoping that we can do that with the RDF work that we're doing. 15:09:01 eric: it would allow something to say "invoke this microparser" 15:09:11 rob: how close to equivalence is needed? 15:09:37 eric: would like to see cases where it works, where it doesn't, and then understand what nuance and delicacy is needed for this. 15:09:44 rob: I'm very interested in it. 15:11:21 ACTION: EricP to create a microparser as a tool that takes an RDF graph and a map from SNOMED relationships to ACT relationship type codes and emits an RDF graph with only atomic SNOMED terms, due 21-aug-2015 15:11:21 Created ACTION-29 - Create a microparser as a tool that takes an rdf graph and a map from snomed relationships to act relationship type codes and emits an rdf graph with only atomic snomed terms, due 21-aug-2015 [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2015-07-28]. 15:13:09 topic: misc 15:13:22 dbooth: no task force meeting last week. 15:13:28 Topic: CTS Ontology Workshop, Sept 23-25, Charleston SC 15:13:29 ... previous week was about CodableThingy 15:14:05 dbooth: folks (tmalia) check stuff into github 15:14:18 tmalia: still working on Side-by-side 15:14:35 ... haven't started working on the github artifact, which i assume is the mapping 15:14:45 ... i need to get further in our disucssions. 15:15:11 dbooth: Charleston meetings are 23-25Sep 15:15:18 ... with Barry Smith et al 15:15:53 .. it would be good to have a couple weeks lead time so they can look at it 15:15:58 ... it would be good to have a couple weeks lead time so they can look at it 15:16:12 tmalia: what's the audience? 15:16:26 link to charleston meeting: http://ncorwiki.buffalo.edu/index.php/CTS_Ontology_Workshop_2015 15:16:37 ... i've been assuming knowledge of RDF and OWL, so I can write stuff in Turtle 15:17:12 Tony has joined #HCLS 15:21:27 Topic: Side-by-side example of two FHIR RDF approaches (Tony Mallia) 15:21:37 http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=File:FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf 15:21:57 http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf 15:23:37 ericP: note that the wiki attachement page apparently displays the first comment which makes it appear to be V5. 15:23:51 s/tmalia/tmallia/g 15:24:27 tmallia: we need to settle on names so we can make the changes 15:24:40 line 89 and onward 15:25:14 ... FHIR Code and CodableConcept are not direct translations 15:28:15 ... I've created "locally-defined" classes, i.e. CodingThingy.{System,Version,Code,Display,Primary} 15:29:06 [discussion of capitolization leading to some model changes] 15:29:22 https://hl7-fhir.github.io/datatypes.html#coding 15:32:20 changing fhir:CodingThingy.Code to fhir:CodeThingy 15:32:36 tmallia: we're changing e.g. "fhir:CodingThingy.code [ a fhir:CodingThingy.Code ; ... ]" to "fhir:CodingThingy.code [ a fhir:CodeThingy ; ... ]" 15:33:18 changing the names of the green classes, lines 98-101 15:33:38 ... object properties CodingThingy.{system,version,code,display,primary} remain the same 15:33:52 ... [note capitalization] 15:34:20 scribe: lloyd 15:35:53 tony: CodeableConcept, Coding and Code will be subclasses of CodeableThingy, and those subclasses will be used to tag the RDF to indicate the source construct used. 15:37:54 eric: every FHIR property has a non-union range 15:38:19 tony continues on lines 199 and on 15:38:27 Lloyd: where we [would] have untions, we have distinct properties 15:39:02 Object properties all have non-union types, so no need to declare type - implicit from property name. 15:43:36 Eric: do we want qualifiedCardinality or just cardinality? 15:43:55 Tony: issue w/ using Protege editor 15:45:56 david: Not sure we'll want all those restrictions on the three CodeableThingy subclasses, (such as maxQualifiedCardinality 0 for version), because when data is merged and embellished, there may be more info added. 15:48:33 lloyd: if you have a Coding, then the system will be fixed and behind the scenes. 15:50:39 ... Different instances of Coding can have the same code and system, but different displays. Code never has a display. 15:51:29 ... You cannot have a Code with an unknown system. A code must always be tied to a valueset with a fixed binding. 15:52:43 eric: In ShEx, we might say there is no system. That means that during transmission, it will cause an error if it is there. 15:53:05 ... But in OWL we can say the cardinality is 1 even though the expressed data does not show one. 15:53:16 ... We just haven't seen it. 15:54:43 lloyd: For a Code, the system MUST be known. But for CodingThingy in general, you do not necessarily know. 15:55:38 eric: We're writing OWL, which is open world, but we can extract from that what we want to use for closed world validation. 15:56:28 lloyd: If we say that system exists (for Code), it will not exist in the instance data, so there would be a problem. 15:57:03 eric: We might say "dont' serialize this, though it exists" 15:57:26 ... There's a system for Code, but don't write it. 15:59:46 david: Two different use cases for the OWL: describing the RDF that exists in the transmitted instance data, versus describing the information that is known (but not necessarily transmitted in the instance data). 16:02:02 eric: I think the latter 16:02:06 dbooth: I think the former. 16:02:33 eric: I think we'd do the former with ShEx. 16:03:01 ... Could have a tool that reads the OWL and spits out the ShEx. 16:04:24 ... Could add annotation properties that aid the translation to ShEx. 16:07:44 david: I think we should avoid having some RDF that initially comes in as Code, with no display property, and then a display property gets added, and suddenly it is no longer a Code. 16:10:20 tony: starting on lines 254, we need to decide on a proper name for CodeableThingy. I've proposed something. 16:11:00 eric: Concern about fhir:Concept is that everything is a concept. 16:11:36 david: it's a superclass of CodeableConcept. 16:12:59 lloyd: Suggest CodeableThing and CodingThing 16:13:20 david: Or SuperCodeableConcept 16:15:25 david: CodeableSuperclass 16:18:35 We will continue to collect and debate naming ideas. 16:25:25 Chair: David Booth 16:25:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:25:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/21-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 16:27:52 Present: David Booth, Tony Mallia, Bill Kleinebecker, Brian Pech, EricP, Lloyd McKenzie, Rob Hausam, Paul Knapp (briefly) 16:29:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:29:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/21-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 16:35:39 egonw has joined #HCLS 17:02:56 Zakim has left #hcls 17:30:56 egonw has joined #HCLS