IRC log of sdw on 2015-07-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:51:54 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-sdw-irc

12:52:04 [eparsons]

RRSAgent, make logs public

12:52:14 [eparsons]

present+ eparsons

12:52:33 [eparsons]

regrets+ phil, kerry

12:52:55 [eparsons]

regrets+ Rachel

12:53:10 [eparsons]

regrets+ Josh, Bill, Philippe, Stefan Lemme, Bart

12:53:29 [eparsons]

Meeting: SDW WG Weekly

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12:59:35 [Alejandro_Llaves]

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13:00:04 [Alejandro_Llaves]

present+ Alejandro_Llaves

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present +aharth

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present+ aharth

13:00:36 [MattPerry]

present+ MattPerry

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13:02:04 [ahaller2]

present+ ahaller2

13:03:26 [SimonCox]

Is IRC functioning?

13:03:32 [eparsons]

YY

13:03:51 [jtandy]

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13:04:47 [SimonCox]

Its prob ably my turn

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13:05:10 [eparsons]

scribe: simoncox

13:05:16 [jtandy]

present+ jtandy

13:06:06 [eparsons]

Topic: Approve Minutes

13:06:14 [eparsons]

http://www.w3.org/2015/07/08-sdw-minutes.html

13:06:25 [Payam]

+1

13:06:27 [jtandy]

+1 (approved)

13:06:28 [eparsons]

PROPOSED: Accept last weeks minutes

13:06:37 [Alejandro_Llaves]

+1

13:07:15 [eparsons]

RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes

13:07:17 [ahaller2]

wasn't present

13:07:25 [eparsons]

Topic: Patent Call

13:07:31 [eparsons]

https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

13:07:49 [SimonCox]

No objections - 2015-07-08 minutes approved

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13:08:05 [LarsG]

present+ LarsG

13:08:18 [ChrisLittle]

present+

13:08:34 [eparsons]

Topic: Use Cases and Requirements: ISSUE 13

13:08:40 [eparsons]

http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/13

13:08:40 [SimonCox]

eparsons: Issue013

13:09:27 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: ISSUE 13 Profiling

13:10:29 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: Profiles of SSN 1. constrained model 2. compliance - unclear which?

13:12:42 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: understands need to check data is compliant with SSN model - no clear way to do this - W3C RDF Data Shapes probably relevant but incomplete

13:12:51 [Payam]

forgot how to add myself to the qeue

13:13:01 [ChrisLittle]

q+

13:13:04 [eparsons]

"q+"

13:13:04 [Payam]

q+

13:13:17 [ahaller2]

q+

13:14:10 [eparsons]

q?

13:14:36 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: e.g. geology wants to define version of SSN with specific constraints on values - probably not possible in SDW - must be delegated to application community?

13:14:41 [eparsons]

ack next

13:15:14 [SimonCox]

Payam, Chris Little, Armin on Q

13:15:25 [Payam]

http://iot.ee.surrey.ac.uk/SSNValidation/

13:16:15 [Payam]

ack Payam

13:16:15 [SimonCox]

Payam: validation is needed in Requirements

13:16:54 [SimonCox]

Chris is a chipmunk

13:16:55 [Alejandro_Llaves]

helium?

13:17:11 [SimonCox]

Come down Chris - all forgiven

13:17:41 [SimonCox]

General hilarity

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13:18:51 [eparsons]

q+

13:18:54 [SimonCox]

Armin: 1. RDF Shapes not viable solution 2. different modules of SSNO makes it difficult to define generic validation service

13:18:56 [eparsons]

q-

13:19:03 [jtandy]

q+

13:19:52 [SimonCox]

Chris: if SSNO is complex, profiles are essential; if SSNO is simple, profiles implies SSNO is inadequate - which?

13:19:57 [eparsons]

ack next

13:20:34 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: SSNO is complex; typically necessary to add domain specific aspects in a profile

13:21:10 [Alejandro_Llaves]

+q

13:21:31 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: RDF Data Shapes is unlikely to be finished in time

13:22:18 [eparsons]

ack next

13:22:29 [ChrisLittle]

+1 jeremy

13:22:48 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: Is simplifying a complex model for a domain application a 'best practice' in its own right?

13:23:15 [jtandy]

q+

13:23:27 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: do we agree SSNO validator required?

13:23:41 [ahaller2]

+1 profile

13:23:45 [ahaller2]

-1 validator

13:23:48 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: do we need SSNO profiles?

13:23:51 [eparsons]

ack next

13:24:43 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: is the validator/profile requirement specific to SSNO? Or is this a generic requirement - to be able to profile/validate against data models?

13:25:34 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: focussing on what goes in document

13:26:22 [ahaller2]

q+

13:26:30 [eparsons]

ack next

13:26:36 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: set 'solutions' aside at this time?

13:27:03 [SimonCox]

Armin: what does validator actually validate?

13:27:36 [Payam]

+q

13:27:44 [eparsons]

ack next

13:28:13 [SimonCox]

Payam: validation allows combination of more than one ontology

13:28:37 [jtandy]

q+

13:28:42 [Payam]

ack Payam

13:28:45 [eparsons]

ack next

13:28:56 [aharth]

q+ there is no validator for ontologies

13:29:02 [aharth]

q+

13:29:18 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: 1. validation = verify that data is complete, to support application

13:29:39 [AndreaPerego]

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13:29:42 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: 2. validation = verify that profile is conformant to general case

13:30:02 [eparsons]

ack next

13:30:39 [SimonCox]

Andreas: OWL models/ontologies are concerned with logical consistency, not integrity

13:31:57 [SimonCox]

ANdreas: RDF data shapes - add integrity checks; QB includes SPARQL ASK queries to check integrity

13:32:30 [SimonCox]

Ed: not convinced there is big validation requirement

13:33:30 [ahaller2]

don't care

13:33:39 [SimonCox]

Alejandro: Barcelona discussion focussed on validation; requirements on list/document appears to focus more on application-specific profiles

13:33:43 [aharth]

link to qb well-formed section: http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-data-cube/#wf

13:33:47 [ahaller2]

it is the web, everyone can extend ontologies how they like

13:34:12 [SimonCox]

Ed: requirement does not call out validation - can we close issue?

13:34:47 [AndreaPerego]

present+ AndreaPerego

13:34:56 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: ask validation question in UCR nexct draft?

13:35:09 [Payam]

I'm sorry, I have to leave early today

13:35:23 [eparsons]

PROPOSED: Close issue - case for validation not made yet.. will revisit

13:35:23 [AndreaPerego]

s/nexct/next/

13:35:38 [AndreaPerego]

+1

13:35:39 [ChrisLittle]

+1 revisit

13:35:43 [Alejandro_Llaves]

+1

13:35:45 [Payam]

+1 revisit

13:35:47 [SimonCox]

Ed: close ISSUE 13 - no case for validation yet (can be reopened later)

13:35:50 [MattPerry]

+1

13:36:28 [eparsons]

RESOLVED: Close issue - case for validation not made yet.. will revisit

13:36:34 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: call out 'candidate' and 'deferred' requirements - validation = candidate requirement, not addressed now

13:36:52 [jtandy]

Candidate ... Accepted ... Deferred requirements ...

13:37:07 [jtandy]

(see http://w3c.github.io/csvw/use-cases-and-requirements/index.html for example)

13:37:40 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: use precedent from CSV on web

13:37:47 [eparsons]

Topic : Best Practice Consolidation Progress

13:37:56 [SimonCox]

Ed: next - BP til now

13:38:19 [Alejandro_Llaves]

I did not

13:38:27 [Alejandro_Llaves]

https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidation

13:39:15 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: has membership reviewed https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidation ?

13:39:52 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: propose working through UCs to pull out common themes to use in narrative?

13:40:49 [eparsons]

+1

13:41:01 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: focus is on Spatial Best Practices in general, Time/overages/SSN only incidentally

13:41:02 [Alejandro_Llaves]

+1

13:41:06 [LarsG]

+1

13:41:15 [SimonCox]

s/overages/coverages/

13:42:06 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: publisher vs consumer view - typically publisher wears cost to make consumer's life easier.

13:43:35 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: see summary https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidation#Analysis_pointers

13:45:03 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: e.g. looking for wildfires using satellite imagery - UC is mostly about classifying pixels; BP can't address details of processing algorithms, but might look at BP relating to inputs and outputs

13:45:38 [SimonCox]

Ed: yes, separate concerns

13:45:45 [AndreaPerego]

q+

13:45:55 [eparsons]

ack next

13:46:09 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: workflows out of scope

13:46:40 [SimonCox]

Andrea: why focus on UCs rather than requirements?

13:47:06 [SimonCox]

Andrea: appears to refine UCR rather than move towards BPs

13:48:17 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: rationale = arrange BP around narrative stories, i.e. UCs

13:48:52 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: will ensure that BP does address real stories

13:49:37 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: compress 48 UCs into a small number of narrative stories

13:50:03 [Alejandro_Llaves]

sounds good to me!

13:50:22 [AndreaPerego]

+1 from em

13:50:36 [AndreaPerego]

s/from em/from me/

13:51:10 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: consolidation and mapping requirements to stories allows us to check completeness

13:52:44 [jtandy]

[4.7 Publishing geographical data](http://w3c.github.io/sdw/UseCases/SDWUseCasesAndRequirements.html#PublishingGeographicalData)

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13:53:25 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: BP will not recommend encodings?

13:54:02 [SimonCox]

Ed: this would be a big gap, risks making the BP not meet expectations?

13:54:43 [SimonCox]

Ed, Jeremy: provide examples, but not exclusive list - make it clear that other techniques would be possible.

13:54:45 [ChrisLittle]

q+

13:55:08 [eparsons]

ack next

13:55:18 [SimonCox]

Ed: BP should be as complete as possible; self-contained as far as possible

13:55:46 [SimonCox]

Chris: BP should include list of formats, with comments on pros and cons of each format

13:56:30 [SimonCox]

Ed: how long will it take to consolidate themes? How many?

13:57:08 [ChrisLittle]

suggest 6 rather than 12 narratives

13:57:17 [SimonCox]

Jeremy: no more than 12; BP document must be short-enough ... ; 1-11 took 3 hours, 12-48 to go

13:58:07 [eparsons]

Topic: ANOB

13:58:24 [SimonCox]

Ed: use discussion tab on https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Consolidation

13:58:32 [AndreaPerego]

Around 10 would be reasonable - 6 are probably not enough to cover all the relevant use cases.

13:58:33 [SimonCox]

Book travel to Sapporo asap

13:58:52 [SimonCox]

No direct flights to Sapporo

13:59:15 [SimonCox]

Best prices are via Tokyo

13:59:25 [ChrisLittle]

bye(

13:59:30 [Alejandro_Llaves]

thanks, bye!

13:59:32 [AndreaPerego]

Thanks and bye!

13:59:38 [eparsons]

thanks simon !

13:59:39 [LarsG]

Thx, bye

13:59:39 [ChrisLittle]

bye (squeak, squeak)

13:59:40 [ahaller2]

thanks, bye

13:59:42 [MattPerry]

bye

13:59:46 [SimonCox]

How to generate minutes?

13:59:51 [eparsons]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:59:51 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-sdw-minutes.html eparsons

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