IRC log of i18n on 2015-07-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:46:36 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:46:36 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:46:42 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
13:46:49 [aphillip]
trackbot, prepare tleleconference
13:46:49 [trackbot]
Sorry, aphillip, I don't understand 'trackbot, prepare tleleconference'. Please refer to <> for help.
13:47:01 [aphillip]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:47:03 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:47:05 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 4186
13:47:05 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:47:06 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:47:06 [trackbot]
Date: 09 July 2015
13:47:12 [aphillip]
Regrets: Felix, Dennis
13:47:20 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
13:47:24 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
13:47:28 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
13:47:39 [aphillip]
13:47:56 [aphillip]
agenda+ RADAR and Active Work Review
13:48:09 [aphillip]
agenda+ Bidi Plain Text
13:48:20 [aphillip]
agenda+ Handling Language and Direction Metadata (was Mediastream Track Label)
13:48:34 [aphillip]
agenda+ Notifications.lang and Notifications.dir
13:48:46 [aphillip]
agenda+ Mediacapture item resolution
13:48:55 [aphillip]
agenda+ CharMod
13:49:31 [aphillip]
Present+ Addison
13:49:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
13:50:54 [Najib-ma]
Najib-ma has joined #i18n
13:59:06 [David]
David has joined #i18n
13:59:22 [Steve_Atkin]
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13:59:36 [aphillip]
Present+ Steve
14:02:11 [JcK]
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14:02:50 [aphillip]
Present+ Richard
14:03:01 [aphillip]
Present+ JcK
14:03:34 [aphillip]
Present+ David
14:04:01 [Najib-ma]
present+ Najib-ma
14:05:11 [r12a]
14:05:19 [aphillip]
Topic: Agenda
14:05:31 [aphillip]
14:05:35 [Najib-ma]
I'm dialed in :-)
14:05:42 [r12a]
present+ r21a
14:05:49 [aphillip]
Topic: Action Items
14:06:22 [aphillip]
14:06:22 [trackbot]
action-113 -- Richard Ishida to Work on tidying up Additional Requirements for Bidi in HTML & CSS over coming couple of months -- due 2015-02-05 -- OPEN
14:06:22 [trackbot]
14:06:31 [aphillip]
richard: just pubish it, after removing stubs?
14:07:00 [aphillip]
close action-113
14:07:00 [trackbot]
Closed action-113.
14:07:18 [aphillip]
action:richard: publish updated version of Additional Requirements for Bidi in HTML and CSS
14:09:15 [aphillip]
14:09:15 [trackbot]
action-451 -- Addison Phillips to Respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the wg believes that cldr's values and data structures are needed -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
14:09:15 [trackbot]
14:09:20 [aphillip]
close action-451
14:09:20 [trackbot]
Closed action-451.
14:09:26 [aphillip]
Topic: Info Share
14:09:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
14:09:58 [aphillip]
richard: TPAC registration open
14:10:04 [aphillip]
... if going, please register
14:11:10 [aphillip]
richard: please add host key to agenda
14:11:19 [aphillip]
addison: will do
14:11:38 [aphillip]
14:11:43 [r12a]
14:12:01 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:12:01 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "RADAR and Active Work Review" taken up [from aphillip]
14:13:19 [aphillip]
steve: create me a tracker for vehicle information?
14:13:22 [aphillip]
addison: will do
14:14:11 [aphillip]
richard: csv now passed
14:14:23 [aphillip]
... have their CR call
14:14:36 [aphillip]
addison: we got consensus on their issues, though, right?
14:14:40 [aphillip]
richard: think so
14:14:45 [aphillip]
14:16:39 [aphillip]
richard: mongolian discussion taking place
14:16:54 [aphillip]
... in depth talk about NNBSP and MVS
14:17:01 [aphillip]
... spoke to PLH last week
14:17:20 [aphillip]
... okay to go ahead with Arabic Layout Requirements and Ethiopic Layout Requirements chartering
14:17:32 [aphillip]
richard: spent time merging chinese and english versions of clreq
14:17:41 [aphillip]
... much easier to manage them as a single document
14:17:53 [aphillip]
... just a few more additional translation
14:17:59 [aphillip]
... and a couple of text issues
14:18:02 [aphillip]
... then FPWD
14:18:15 [aphillip]
addison: next week-ish?
14:18:28 [aphillip]
richard: hope so, but depends on translators
14:19:02 [aphillip]
richard: PLH recommends doing more publicity around layout requirements
14:19:07 [aphillip]
... such as making a page about it
14:19:36 [aphillip]
richard: published update to klreq (last week)
14:20:25 [aphillip]
addison: hoping for additional script information for indic soon?
14:20:46 [aphillip]
richard: hope to see 4 more scripts, next week-ish?
14:21:21 [aphillip]
richard: firefox releasing vertical into mainstream?
14:21:36 [aphillip]
... but koji and fantasai discussing different way of handling things
14:22:08 [aphillip]
... to cater to latin languages
14:22:28 [aphillip]
addison: like german titles on book spine?
14:22:34 [aphillip]
richard: yes, or in a table, that sort of thing
14:23:00 [aphillip]
addison: hope they don't change the current model much/incompatibly
14:23:05 [r12a]
14:23:14 [aphillip]
richard: also updated the article (link above)
14:23:21 [aphillip]
... separated proprietary stuff
14:23:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
14:23:50 [aphillip]
richard: "this is how you're supposed to achieve it"
14:24:01 [aphillip]
... with a "this is how to actually achieve in different browsers"
14:24:05 [aphillip]
... subtle difference
14:24:08 [aphillip]
... but worthwhile
14:24:27 [aphillip]
richard: bidi: no implementations so far on @dir
14:24:38 [aphillip]
... worth chasing implementers?
14:27:45 [JcK]
Thanks for adding docs to tracker -- I'm unlikely to have time to track that WG closely.
14:28:03 [JcK]
And I have no idea what is going on with Webex, much less why it is a good idea.
14:28:32 [aphillip]
14:29:19 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 4
14:29:19 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Notifications.lang and Notifications.dir" taken up [from aphillip]
14:29:28 [aphillip]
14:31:16 [aphillip]
14:31:55 [aphillip]
richard: argued that it should be in spec so that it might work; can't work if not present
14:32:39 [aphillip]
action: addison: respond to Notifications about .lang and .dir email
14:32:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-452 - Respond to notifications about .lang and .dir email [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-07-16].
14:33:10 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 5
14:33:10 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Mediacapture item resolution" taken up [from aphillip]
14:33:20 [aphillip]
14:34:09 [aphillip]
14:34:09 [trackbot]
issue-465 -- Human readable message not localizable? -- open
14:34:09 [trackbot]
14:34:50 [aphillip]
addison: will send any comments to the list, if you see something, do the same
14:35:27 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 2
14:35:27 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Bidi Plain Text" taken up [from aphillip]
14:35:37 [aphillip]
14:35:57 [aphillip]
richard: this is an attempt to step back
14:36:07 [aphillip]
... when we reviewed CSV
14:36:17 [aphillip]
... inquiries about json, webvtt
14:36:22 [aphillip]
... maybe notifications
14:36:36 [aphillip]
... lots of plain text format not containing html/xml markup
14:36:45 [aphillip]
... need guidelines for how to represent direction
14:37:03 [aphillip]
... article is not in w3c site because personal thoughts so far
14:37:12 [aphillip]
... make a kind of "tutorial" for what's needed
14:37:15 [aphillip]
... and why
14:37:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
14:37:32 [aphillip]
richard: sections at end about webvtt and csv
14:37:38 [aphillip]
... would quite like feedback
14:37:44 [aphillip]
... some from mati and najib
14:38:31 [aphillip]
richard: looking for comments, on right track, things missing, etc
14:39:34 [aphillip]
najib: sent email about plain text
14:39:47 [aphillip]
... json or csv are not like normal text
14:39:57 [aphillip]
... could be considered different
14:40:04 [aphillip]
... could be read or edited
14:40:11 [aphillip]
... in logical order rather than visual order
14:40:42 [aphillip]
... make bidi disabled you can edit easily
14:41:03 [aphillip]
richard: how often do you find editors that can disable bidi?
14:41:20 [aphillip]
... you're able to disable bidi. is that something people do commonly?
14:42:04 [aphillip]
najib: specific editors don't have bidi
14:42:14 [aphillip]
richard: do many people use editors without bidi support?
14:42:39 [aphillip]
najib: most don't use source file editors, use visual order
14:42:58 [aphillip]
... not many edit source text
14:43:04 [JcK]
@Richard: slightly different answer: there are a lot of editors out there that do have bibi support but whose support falls far short of our or UTC's standards
14:43:26 [aphillip]
... most in my region who produce bidi text choose like wordpress to produce content
14:44:01 [aphillip]
Present+ koji
14:45:23 [Steve_Atkin]
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14:45:38 [aphillip]
14:46:31 [aphillip]
richard: what about the json problem?
14:46:44 [aphillip]
addison: see above link: started this in tandem with yours, much rougher
14:46:51 [aphillip]
richard: include in my article?
14:46:54 [aphillip]
addison: welcome to
14:54:42 [aphillip]
14:55:25 [aphillip]
Topic: vertical text
14:55:46 [aphillip]
koji: so proposal from self and fantasai
14:55:53 [aphillip]
... basic problemm is sideways-left
14:56:03 [aphillip]
... author and technical problems
14:56:28 [aphillip]
... detail in fantasai's email
14:56:36 [aphillip]
... haven't talked about this week
14:56:47 [aphillip]
... adding values to simplify latin usage
14:57:05 [aphillip]
... removing text-orientation: sideways-left
14:57:11 [aphillip]
... and addingt two value s to writing-mode
14:57:26 [aphillip]
... just need to change writing mode
14:57:37 [aphillip]
... only some cjk users need text-orentation
14:57:48 [aphillip]
... hope it simplifies authoring
14:57:53 [aphillip]
... hope ff can pick it up
14:58:30 [aphillip]
richard: do you know if vertical text will support horizontal text in vertical (tate-chu-yoko) in FF?
14:58:37 [aphillip]
koji: good question
14:58:42 [aphillip]
... don't know if still trying to
14:58:47 [aphillip]
... or if going to next milestone
14:58:51 [aphillip]
... likely to be minimal
14:58:57 [aphillip]
... still improving it
14:59:10 [aphillip]
richard: what currently works will still work?
14:59:22 [aphillip]
... in production version?
14:59:41 [r12a]
14:59:50 [aphillip]
koji: not in nightly yet, want to be in stable
14:59:55 [aphillip]
... maybe not
15:00:02 [aphillip]
... some things don't work (like tables)
15:00:07 [aphillip]
... make basic tables work
15:00:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
15:00:23 [aphillip]
koji: not sure if in release or not
15:00:58 [aphillip]
Topic: AOB?
15:01:18 [r12a]
15:01:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
15:02:23 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
15:02:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
15:02:28 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:02:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate aphillip
15:02:32 [aphillip]
rrsagent, bye
15:02:32 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
15:02:32 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: richard: publish updated version of Additional Requirements for Bidi in HTML and CSS [1]
15:02:32 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
15:02:32 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: addison: respond to Notifications about .lang and .dir email [2]
15:02:32 [RRSAgent]
recorded in