IRC log of html-media on 2015-07-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:50:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:50:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-irc
14:50:16 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:50:16 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-media
14:50:18 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 63342
14:50:18 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:50:19 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:50:19 [trackbot]
Date: 07 July 2015
14:50:56 [paulc]
present+
14:51:03 [paulc]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jul/0009.html
14:57:11 [ddorwin]
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14:59:42 [paulc]
Media TF is now using Webex: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/Call
15:00:42 [paulc]
Each TF participant on the call should enter "present+" so that we have a log of participants.
15:01:06 [davide]
davide has joined #html-media
15:01:21 [BobLund]
BobLund has joined #html-media
15:01:31 [paulc]
Media TF is now using Webex: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/Call
15:01:49 [paulc]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:01:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:01:52 [ddorwin]
present+
15:02:27 [markw]
markw has joined #html-media
15:04:12 [paulc]
present+ markw
15:04:16 [joesteele]
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15:04:42 [paulc]
present+ joesteele
15:04:51 [joesteele]
scribenick: joesteele
15:04:54 [paulc]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jul/0009.html
15:05:00 [paulc]
Chair: paulc
15:05:42 [jdsmith]
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15:05:57 [jdsmith]
present+
15:07:01 [joesteele]
Topic: Open Action Item
15:07:18 [joesteele]
s/Action Item/Action Items/
15:07:30 [joesteele]
paulc: David you had an open action — you need an extension?
15:07:35 [joesteele]
ddorwin: yes - I extended
15:07:38 [paulc]
ACTION-86?
15:07:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-86 -- David Dorwin to Send an update on bug 27269 -- due 2015-07-31 -- OPEN
15:07:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/86
15:07:53 [paulc]
ACTION-93?
15:07:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-93 -- Paul Cotton to Get in touch with webappsec wg about the "privileged context" which is more generic than saying https, etc." (really on bob lund) -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
15:07:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/93
15:08:07 [joesteele]
paulc: we had a response yesterday from BobLund
15:08:22 [joesteele]
… about the priviledged context
15:08:23 [paulc]
See Bob's update in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jul/0007.html
15:08:47 [joesteele]
topic: Implemented Issues since June 2nd
15:09:00 [joesteele]
paulc: there was an update since the agenda
15:09:04 [paulc]
Issues 12, 15, 30, 34, 36, 39, 43, 44, 49, 51, 56 and 58 have been implemented
15:09:19 [joesteele]
… believe issue 20 and 8 have been updated
15:09:22 [paulc]
Issue 20 and issue 8 have also been implemented
15:09:26 [joesteele]
jdsmith: yes, implemented
15:09:50 [joesteele]
topic: Issues to be implemented
15:10:05 [joesteele]
paulc: I created a list to be sure we knew what is blocked
15:10:33 [joesteele]
… looks like 17, 10, 9, 8 and 2
15:10:38 [paulc]
ISSUE-17 Replace "fire a simple event" with "fire an event" for non-simple Events, Assigned to Jerry
15:10:48 [joesteele]
paulc: lets discuss this one
15:10:50 [paulc]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17
15:10:57 [joesteele]
… Jerry had a question
15:11:06 [paulc]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17#issuecomment-119042652
15:11:26 [joesteele]
jdsmith: I want to be sure I know what a “complex” event is
15:11:41 [joesteele]
… I interepreted to be ones with attributes, not sure how that is different from simple events
15:11:56 [joesteele]
… this looks effectively the same
15:12:30 [joesteele]
ddorwin: I interpreted this as just being the base interface and not appropo for other events
15:12:48 [joesteele]
… would like input from others on whether this is correct
15:13:11 [joesteele]
paulc: what do you mean?
15:13:39 [joesteele]
ddorwin: if fire an event means fire an “Event” then it is not correct for the other text. This would clean that up
15:13:51 [joesteele]
jdsmith: probably need to clarify this more
15:14:08 [paulc]
http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/webappapis.html#fire-a-simple-event
15:14:28 [plh]
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15:14:42 [joesteele]
paulc: I was looking for that text in the spec
15:14:59 [joesteele]
s/in the spec/in the webappis spec/
15:15:11 [joesteele]
ddorwin: we should find out what a “simple event” is
15:15:15 [plh]
Present+ Plh
15:15:20 [joesteele]
jdsmith: having trouble finding the example now
15:15:36 [joesteele]
paulc: does the text “simple event” occurs elsewhere?
15:15:47 [joesteele]
s/occurs elsewhere/occur elsewhere/
15:16:11 [ddorwin]
The question is whether "simple event" means exactly "Event" or can include children of Event.
15:16:15 [joesteele]
paulc: “simple event” by itself is never defined
15:16:26 [joesteele]
ddorwin: that refers to “Event”
15:16:31 [joesteele]
… the Event interface
15:17:04 [joesteele]
jdsmith: an alternate example under sourcing tracks is step 9
15:17:22 [paulc]
Step 9 of http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#sourcing-in-band-text-tracks
15:18:03 [joesteele]
paulc: should we handle offline?
15:18:09 [joesteele]
… or discuss more now?
15:18:21 [joesteele]
jdsmith: would like some guidance here — what is the right model?
15:18:29 [joesteele]
paulc: what are the key questions then?
15:18:35 [joesteele]
ddorwin: the one I posted above
15:19:05 [joesteele]
… the term “simple event” is from webapp Apis
15:19:12 [ddorwin]
s/children of Event/children of Event (with additional members)/
15:19:21 [plh]
http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/webappapis.html#fire-a-simple-event
15:19:52 [joesteele]
paulc: maybe sending a request to public-html about this would answer it
15:20:15 [joesteele]
paulc: there are two issues with no assigned editors 10 and 2
15:20:27 [joesteele]
… markw can you take one or both
15:20:49 [joesteele]
s/10 and 2/(10 and 2)/
15:20:58 [joesteele]
ddorwin: 2 is actually assigned to me
15:21:09 [joesteele]
markw: I can take issue-10 then
15:21:41 [joesteele]
topic: Initialization Data cluster of issues
15:21:55 [paulc]
ISSUE-41 blocks ISSUE-52 and ISSUE-53
15:21:56 [joesteele]
paulc: includes issue-41 which blocks 52/53
15:22:05 [joesteele]
… been like this for awhile
15:23:00 [joesteele]
paulc: you said you would file an additional bug and you did that, no progress since then
15:23:03 [joesteele]
q+
15:23:09 [paulc]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/41#issuecomment-97124407 give status after the Mar F2F meeting
15:24:18 [paulc]
present+ plh
15:24:52 [paulc]
Joe: ISSUE-52 should be processable
15:24:56 [paulc]
Daivd: I disagree
15:25:16 [joesteele]
ddorwin: these need to be worked on as a whole and that has not happened yet
15:27:45 [joesteele]
ddorwin: we have been focusing on some issues (like secure release) but we need to prioritize
15:28:08 [joesteele]
paulc: we have not met for a month, the work done has been stuff already marked as to be done (for a long time)
15:28:17 [joesteele]
… we need to make progress on the hard issues
15:29:04 [joesteele]
ddorwin: we have been making progress, eg. secure release which is why the others have not been getting attention
15:29:41 [joesteele]
paulc: the chair requests Joe to figure out a strategy for this cluster
15:30:02 [joesteele]
topic: Event Handler and Message cluster
15:30:14 [joesteele]
paulc: issues 19, 14, 31
15:30:29 [joesteele]
… looks like 19 needs feedback
15:30:44 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/19
15:31:15 [joesteele]
paulc: can we get a volunteer to give feedback for 19 and 14 to break this cluster
15:31:25 [joesteele]
jdsmith: I will do that
15:31:34 [joesteele]
paulc: what is your timeline?
15:31:39 [joesteele]
jdsmith: shoot for two weeks
15:31:55 [joesteele]
topic: Examples cluster
15:32:02 [joesteele]
paulc: issues 34 and 10
15:32:24 [joesteele]
… maybe these need to just be assigned to an editor
15:32:32 [joesteele]
… is there any tehcnical discussion?
15:32:40 [joesteele]
markw: 34 is done and I took on 10
15:32:47 [joesteele]
paulc: thanks
15:33:16 [joesteele]
topic: Issue 63, Pull reuest 66
15:33:32 [paulc]
Issue-63: Align normative text on user consent for Distinctive Identifiers with privacy section
15:33:32 [trackbot]
Notes added to Issue-63 .
15:33:42 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/63
15:33:52 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/66
15:34:24 [joesteele]
paulc: you created this 21 days ago — what do we do with this?
15:34:44 [joesteele]
ddorwin: I need to review that one — must have missed it. I will take an action
15:35:02 [joesteele]
topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType
15:35:12 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/45
15:35:17 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/45
15:35:25 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/54
15:35:33 [joesteele]
paulc: lot of discussion in this one
15:35:36 [paulc]
EME] Netflix's secure release is unreliable without tamper-proof secure persistent storage and/or delayed shutdown
15:35:38 [joesteele]
… and a separate email thread
15:35:53 [paulc]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jun/0021.html
15:35:56 [joesteele]
… message 21 in the June archove
15:36:05 [joesteele]
paulc: what do we do next here?
15:36:54 [joesteele]
ddorwin: working on documenting the key renewal which has been blocking this
15:37:11 [joesteele]
jdsmith: that was an alternative David raised in previous discussions
15:37:21 [joesteele]
q+
15:37:55 [paulc]
ack joe
15:38:07 [joesteele]
ddorwin: the issue is very different now than what is being discussed, this is all about secure release
15:39:13 [markw]
q+
15:39:22 [paulc]
ack markw
15:39:35 [joesteele]
joesteele: seems that the core issue is that some platforms may not be able to support this or is very difficult
15:39:55 [joesteele]
markw: seems liek that would be a good question to answer even if I disagree about whether it is implementable
15:40:17 [joesteele]
… I find it unlikely that there are platforms where the write required is not possible
15:40:38 [joesteele]
ddorwin: this is an architectural constraint that this feature places on the spec which is a web of other constraints
15:40:51 [joesteele]
… I also think you cannot define that behavior in terms of other core specs
15:41:13 [joesteele]
… I think you *can* write this, but the question is whether the web spec should constrain imeplemtations this way
15:41:31 [joesteele]
markw: I think this is a web agent arhcitecural issue, not a web architecture issue
15:41:41 [joesteele]
… might be missing something and we need to dive deeper
15:42:19 [joesteele]
… but I am happy to see the alternatives and see whether they solve all the uses cases, or maybe support both
15:42:26 [joesteele]
paulc: more discussion now?
15:42:33 [joesteele]
… or wait for davids proposal
15:42:49 [joesteele]
+1
15:42:57 [joesteele]
ddorwin: ok with me
15:43:18 [joesteele]
topic: Issue-22: Add output-restricted MediaKeyStatus
15:43:25 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/45
15:43:30 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/65
15:43:45 [joesteele]
ddorwin: discussing with Mark now, was a little confused
15:43:55 [joesteele]
.. do you want “downscaled” as well now?
15:44:05 [joesteele]
s/.. do you/… do you/
15:44:32 [joesteele]
markw: could have either prevented or downscaled states, to avoid discarding the high resolution data downloaded
15:44:51 [joesteele]
dorwin: was a bit confused about the last line, will re-read now and respond
15:45:13 [joesteele]
… will make the proposal more concise and we can move from there
15:45:18 [joesteele]
… updating the issue
15:45:46 [joesteele]
topic: Next meeting
15:46:02 [joesteele]
paulc: suggest we meet on July 21st
15:46:08 [joesteele]
jdsmith: ok
15:46:22 [joesteele]
… alternating between MSE and EME seems like the way to go
15:46:31 [joesteele]
paulc: ok — we are done.
15:46:43 [paulc]
rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:46:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:47:13 [joesteele]
zakim, who is here?
15:47:13 [Zakim]
sorry, joesteele, I don't know what conference this is
15:47:15 [Zakim]
On IRC I see plh, jdsmith, joesteele, markw, BobLund, davide, ddorwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, trackbot, cwilso, adrianba
15:47:38 [joesteele]
present + BobLund
15:47:52 [davide]
present+ davide
15:47:53 [joesteele]
present + adrianba
15:48:05 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:48:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:48:32 [joesteele]
present + paulc
15:48:46 [joesteele]
present + ddorwin
15:48:56 [joesteele]
present + cwilso
15:49:07 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:49:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:50:14 [joesteele]
s/Issue 63, Pull reuest 66/Issue-63: Align normative text on user consent for Distinctive Identifiers with privacy section/
15:50:23 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:50:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:50:45 [joesteele]
s/ISSUE-45:/Issue-45:/
15:50:47 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:50:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:51:43 [davide]
davide has left #html-media
15:52:10 [joesteele]
s/tehcnical/technical/
15:52:27 [joesteele]
s/archove/archive/
15:52:39 [joesteele]
s/liek/like/
15:53:20 [joesteele]
s/ or is very difficult/ or is very difficult, and whether we should allow such features/
15:53:38 [joesteele]
s/imeplemtations/implementations/
15:53:55 [joesteele]
s/write this,/write this in the spec,/
15:54:34 [joesteele]
s/either prevented or downscaled states/either “op blocked” or “downscaled” states/
15:54:46 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:54:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:55:21 [joesteele]
s/Initialization Data cluster of issues/Initialization Data cluster/
15:55:29 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:55:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:55:53 [joesteele]
Zakim, bye
15:55:53 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-media
15:56:00 [joesteele]
rrsagent, bye
15:56:00 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items