12:59:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dwbp
12:59:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/03-dwbp-irc
12:59:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
12:59:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dwbp
12:59:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
12:59:28 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
12:59:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
12:59:29 <trackbot> Date: 03 July 2015
12:59:40 <deirdrelee> chair: deirdrelee
12:59:44 <deirdrelee> present+ deirdrelee
12:59:51 <deirdrelee> zakim, who is here?
12:59:51 <Zakim> sorry, deirdrelee, I don't know what conference this is
12:59:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, deirdrelee, cgueret, yaso, phila, trackbot, hadleybeeman, rhiaro
13:00:10 <deirdrelee> zakim, this will be dwbp
13:00:10 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, deirdrelee
13:00:28 <Caroline> Caroline has joined #DWBP
13:00:56 <cgueret> deirdrelee, nope
13:01:04 <deirdrelee> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150703
13:01:23 <phila> present+ phila
13:01:36 <MTCarrasco> MTCarrasco has joined #dwbp
13:01:42 <cgueret> deirdrelee, webex says it does not have access to my sound card
13:02:47 <ericstephan> ericstephan has joined #dwbp
13:02:58 <jerdeb> jerdeb has joined #DWBP
13:03:00 <phila> present+ Yaso
13:03:00 <ericstephan> Hi just dialing in...
13:03:56 <MTCarrasco> present+
13:03:59 <Caroline> present+ Caroline
13:04:06 <phila> present+ MTCarrasco
13:04:12 <cgueret> deirdrelee, just called in with Skype and it works
13:04:32 <cgueret> deirdrelee, of course I'm on Linux. What else ? ;-)
13:04:45 <ericstephan> zakim, who is here?
13:04:45 <Zakim> sorry, ericstephan, I don't know what conference this is
13:04:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see jerdeb, ericstephan, MTCarrasco, Caroline, Zakim, RRSAgent, deirdrelee, cgueret, yaso, phila, trackbot, hadleybeeman, rhiaro
13:05:08 <yaso> I'm on linux also :-/
13:05:14 <hadleybeeman> Present+ hadleybeeman
13:05:28 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:05:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/03-dwbp-minutes.html phila
13:05:44 <cgueret> present+ cgueret
13:05:54 <ericstephan> present+ ericstephan
13:06:22 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:06:29 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:06:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/03-dwbp-minutes.html phila
13:06:53 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:06:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/03-dwbp-minutes.html phila
13:07:00 <Adrianoc-UFMG> Adrianoc-UFMG has joined #dwbp
13:07:09 <jerdeb> present+ jerdeb
13:07:31 <hadleybeeman> hadleybeeman has changed the topic to: agenda: agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150703
13:07:40 <hadleybeeman> hadleybeeman has changed the topic to: agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150703
13:07:58 <cgueret> yup
13:08:06 <deirdrelee> scribe: cgueret
13:08:39 <ericstephan> I self-muted did that help?
13:09:04 <cgueret> deirdrelee,  two topics for today
13:09:11 <cgueret> ... will discuss open issues
13:09:21 <cgueret> topic: f2f meeting
13:09:46 <cgueret> deirdrelee, f2f should be in Brasil
13:09:52 <laufer> laufer has joined #dwbp
13:10:14 <cgueret> ... to be fair with the people from the group leaving there and had travel to other locations in the past
13:10:26 <Caroline> 24 and 25
13:10:35 <Caroline> of September
13:10:42 <cgueret> ... proposal is one f2f in SP
13:11:03 <Caroline> http://conferenciaweb.w3c.br/
13:11:05 <Caroline> q+
13:11:07 <cgueret> ... there would be a conference preceding the f2f
13:11:17 <yaso> q?
13:11:20 <cgueret> ... comments ?
13:11:42 <cgueret> Caroline, we have the conference and a call for paper for it
13:11:44 <Caroline> http://conferenciaweb.w3c.br/call-for-submissions/
13:11:45 <deirdrelee> ack Caroline
13:11:52 <cgueret> ... could help people to come if they get a paper in
13:12:07 <cgueret> ... everyone is invited to submit something
13:12:10 <ericstephan> q+
13:12:53 <cgueret> ... ping Caroline for questions about the conference
13:13:28 <deirdrelee> ack ericstephan
13:13:32 <cgueret> ericstephan, it does help to know there is a conference
13:13:34 <laufer> present+ laufer
13:13:56 <cgueret> ...  other hurdle for us is the window for travelling outside the country
13:14:14 <phila> q+
13:14:18 <Caroline> +1 ericstephan!
13:14:43 <cgueret> phila, is it presentations or interactive discussions at the conference ?
13:14:45 <deirdrelee> ack phila
13:14:58 <cgueret> ... what kind of conference is it ? size ?
13:15:06 <yaso> It's a conference for +- 400 people
13:15:13 <yaso> mostly developers
13:15:21 <yaso> but there's also business people
13:15:33 <cgueret> Caroline, we have different formats
13:15:41 <cgueret> ... tutorial, speech, round table
13:15:42 <yaso> q+
13:15:45 <cgueret> ... it's flexible
13:16:07 <phila> A lightning talk?
13:16:26 <cgueret> ... attenders are mostly devs
13:16:39 <cgueret> ... but we have a track "data on the web"
13:16:54 <cgueret> ... will be a round table
13:17:04 <gatemezi> gatemezi has joined #dwbp
13:17:08 <cgueret> ... speak about semantic web and data on the web
13:17:27 <yaso> http://conferenciaweb.w3c.br/call-for-submissions/
13:17:46 <cgueret> yaso, just sent the link for the CFP
13:18:04 <deirdrelee> ack yaso
13:18:06 <cgueret> ... very flexible, just sent us an email
13:18:13 <yaso> http://conferenciaweb.w3c.br/call-for-submissions/
13:18:14 <cgueret> s/sent/send
13:18:43 <cgueret> topic: DUV
13:19:03 <cgueret> ericstephan, do we want to approve minutes first ?
13:19:16 <ericstephan> :-)
13:19:24 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Accept last week's meeting minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-06-26
13:19:28 <ericstephan> its the summer heat
13:19:31 <hadleybeeman> +1
13:19:32 <ericstephan> :-)
13:19:36 <Caroline> +1
13:19:36 <Adrianoc-UFMG> +1
13:19:38 <ericstephan> +1
13:19:44 <phila> +1
13:19:45 <laufer> +1
13:20:02 <deirdrelee> RESOLVED: Accept last week's meeting minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-06-26
13:20:15 <cgueret> topic: DUV
13:20:34 <phila> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv/ The Dataset Usage Vocabulary FPWD
13:20:56 <cgueret> ericstephan, editors not available at this meeting
13:21:06 <cgueret> ... propose to use the time of this meeting to gather feedback
13:21:13 <cgueret> ... wait for closing issues
13:21:24 <cgueret> deirdrelee, ok
13:21:26 <deirdrelee> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/open
13:22:00 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/169
13:22:01 <hadleybeeman> issue-169?
13:22:01 <trackbot> issue-169 -- Should usage be specified at the Dataset or Distribution level? -- open
13:22:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/169
13:22:33 <deirdrelee> Q?
13:22:34 <cgueret> ericstephan: carlos is not on the call
13:22:54 <cgueret> ... 3 constructs in the vocabulary
13:23:04 <cgueret> ... 1) how to someone may use a dataset
13:23:09 <cgueret> ... 2) citations
13:23:15 <cgueret> ... 3) describe feedback
13:23:42 <phila> q+
13:23:48 <cgueret> ... probably looking at that from a pragmatic point of view. What is an application consuming ?
13:24:20 <cgueret> ... depending on circumstances both make sense
13:24:31 <cgueret> ... initially described at dataset level
13:24:34 <deirdrelee> ack phila
13:24:41 <cgueret> phila: answer is "it depends"
13:24:48 <cgueret> ... most cases at dataset level
13:25:27 <cgueret> ... distribution level is important when feedback is provided
13:25:44 <cgueret> ... for citation and feedback the dataset level is probably the most sensible one
13:26:07 <cgueret> ... we should be able to say the DUV can be applied to either and give example for it
13:26:19 <deirdrelee> q+
13:26:21 <cgueret> ... be flexible and provide guidance
13:26:37 <laufer> q+
13:26:48 <cgueret> ericstephan: thanks!
13:27:39 <cgueret> ericstephan: the idea would be to include distributions in the model then
13:28:22 <cgueret> ... there were discussions on how to define data on the web and we settled on datasets
13:28:39 <cgueret> ... then saw there was also a lot of discussions about distributions
13:28:54 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
13:28:58 <deirdrelee> ack laufer
13:29:09 <cgueret> laufer: really important issue
13:29:18 <cgueret> ... good to include distributions in the model
13:29:34 <cgueret> ... dataset is an abstract thing
13:29:50 <cgueret> ... a consumer never sees a dataset
13:29:55 <cgueret> ... just a distribution of it
13:30:19 <cgueret> ericstephan: slight disagreement here, it depends on the community you talk to
13:30:41 <cgueret> ... for some a "dataset" is a large combinaison of distributions
13:31:26 <cgueret> laufer: there is no such thing as direct access to a dataset
13:31:29 <phila> q+
13:31:39 <cgueret> ... publishing gives access through a distribution
13:32:41 <cgueret> ericstephan: taking back on the example for climate scientists a dataset is a collection of distributions
13:33:11 <cgueret> ... we do not try to track causality here
13:33:27 <deirdrelee> q?
13:33:38 <deirdrelee> ack phila
13:33:45 <cgueret> phila: everyone is right
13:34:05 <cgueret> ... we have on purpose defined things vaguely so far
13:34:44 <cgueret> ... so we have to make it so that the vocabulary can be applied to both
13:35:15 <cgueret> ... and then specific usage is context dependant
13:35:47 <cgueret> deirdrelee: there could be cases where feedback on distributions could help publisher decided on which formats to keep
13:36:11 <cgueret> ericstephan: ok to be flexible and high level
13:36:15 <cgueret> +1
13:36:49 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/ Our comment tracker
13:36:49 <phila> q+
13:36:58 <cgueret> ericstephan: have not got feedback on the vocabulary except from specific contacts established
13:37:21 <cgueret> ... we are re-using things people already use
13:38:09 <cgueret> phila: ivan was interested, he is in charge of open annotation group
13:38:32 <laufer> s/dataset is an abstract thing/dataset is a thing that a consumer does not have a direct access/
13:38:35 <cgueret> ... they want to express what motivates somebody to provide an annotation
13:38:40 <deirdrelee> q+
13:38:44 <deirdrelee> ack phila
13:38:55 <cgueret> ... relates to us to knowing why would someone bother writing DUV data
13:39:31 <cgueret> deirdrelee: particularly relevant for APIs
13:40:09 <cgueret> ... motivation scenario could be a link with the consumers through the APIs
13:40:13 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/170
13:40:17 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
13:40:30 <cgueret> issue-170?
13:40:30 <trackbot> issue-170 -- Should we use Software or earl:Software instead of duv:Application? -- open
13:40:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/170
13:40:59 <cgueret> ericstephan: good comments about vocab reuse
13:41:48 <cgueret> ... the duv:Application relates to work from Bernadette on modeling
13:42:03 <cgueret> ... we used prov:Activity before
13:42:15 <cgueret> ... maybe prov:Agent would have been better
13:42:23 <deirdrelee> q?
13:42:23 <phila> q+
13:42:28 <cgueret> ... curious to get comments on what to use
13:42:30 <phila> http://www.w3.org/TR/EARL10-Schema/#Software
13:42:32 <deirdrelee> ack phila
13:42:56 <cgueret> phila: EARL has been around for a long time
13:43:04 <cgueret> ... not updated since May 2011
13:43:12 <phila> A Software is any piece of software such as an authoring tool, browser, or evaluation tool. It can be used to describe an Assertor, such as a validation or other quality assurance tool, and it can be used to describe a Test Subject (for example to test compliance of an authoring tool to Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines [ATAG] or of a browser to User Agent Accessibility Guidelines [UAAG]).
13:43:13 <gatemezi> More on Software Classes http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/terms?q=Software&type=class on LOV
13:43:34 <cgueret> ... they have something specific in mind
13:43:44 <cgueret> ... and define it as a subclass of DOAP
13:43:58 <cgueret> ... this may not be what the DUV is after
13:44:26 <cgueret> ... earl:Sofware is a sub of doap:Project
13:44:33 <cgueret> ... so maybe use doap directly
13:44:45 <cgueret> ericstephan: a bit concerned about the lack of updates
13:46:30 <cgueret> phila: if a publisher wants to know the data has been used in some software it is probably not so important to know the exact nature of the software
13:46:34 <cgueret> ericstephan: agree
13:46:36 <laufer> q+
13:46:53 <deirdrelee> ack laufer
13:47:01 <cgueret> laufer: like the idea of prov:Activity
13:47:27 <cgueret> q+ to say prov:Agent would fit better than prov:Activity
13:48:14 <cgueret> ericstephan: everything can be mapped to prov
13:48:17 <laufer> a Dataset as a kind of prov:hadPrimarySource
13:48:33 <hadleybeeman> q?
13:48:56 <cgueret> yep, speaking right now
13:49:20 <deirdrelee> ack cgueret
13:49:20 <Zakim> cgueret, you wanted to say prov:Agent would fit better than prov:Activity
13:49:20 <gatemezi> Agree with ericstephan.
13:49:22 <ericstephan> I believe you are correct cgueret
13:50:31 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/171
13:50:33 <cgueret> issue-171?
13:50:33 <trackbot> issue-171 -- Should dct:creator or doap:developer be used instead of duv:developedBy? -- open
13:50:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/171
13:50:54 <cgueret> ericstephan: another re-use question
13:51:20 <phila> +1 to using DC unless there's a reason not to
13:51:26 <cgueret> ... preference to DC
13:51:30 <hadleybeeman> +1 to DC
13:51:31 <laufer> but an Agent consumes an Entity?
13:51:35 <cgueret> +1 for DC too
13:52:22 <cgueret> deirdrelee: maybe good to define publisher and creator with two matching dates
13:53:06 <cgueret> ericstephan: looking at DCAT they re-use a lot DC
13:53:33 <cgueret> ... we re-use DCAT as a base and should aim at being complementary
13:53:42 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/172
13:53:48 <cgueret> issue-172?
13:53:48 <trackbot> issue-172 -- Should duv:generates be removed? -- open
13:53:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/172
13:54:39 <cgueret> ericstephan: added this property because we thought data consumers write things
13:54:42 <deirdrelee> q+
13:54:46 <cgueret> q+ to leave that to PROV
13:55:08 <cgueret> ericstephan: does it break something to have it ?
13:55:23 <cgueret> ... is a consumer creating something becoming a publisher ?
13:55:45 <cgueret> deirdrelee: the property is definitely valid but we may not need to include it in a vocab about usage
13:55:57 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
13:56:16 <gatemezi> I thought there is an axiom stating that duv:Consumer owl:differentFrom duv:Publisher
13:56:33 <phila> cgueret: I don't think we have to express it in DUV. If you want to say that some data was produced by an application, PROV has it covered so we can just point to that
13:56:42 <deirdrelee> ack cgueret
13:56:42 <Zakim> cgueret, you wanted to leave that to PROV
13:57:07 <phila> ericstephan: Maybe some guidance should be included without having something as part of the vocabulary.
13:57:19 <phila> ... you could leverage PROV if you wanted to
13:57:22 <phila> cgueret: Yep
13:57:29 <gatemezi> + 1 to ericstephan point. And with samples
13:58:52 <cgueret> ericstephan: ok, so resolve not to put it in the model then but describe how prov can be used when needed
13:59:08 <cgueret> deirdrelee: we can continue discussing on mail
13:59:15 <cgueret> ericstephan: thx for the feedback!
13:59:53 <cgueret> phila: took two days to get the documents to be publishable
14:00:08 <cgueret> ... maybe some changes will be back-propagated to the editor drafts
14:00:18 <gatemezi> Thanks phila for all the support
14:00:23 <cgueret> deirdrelee: next call on DQV
14:00:42 <ericstephan> bp and duv and dq connectivity?
14:00:46 <cgueret> hadleybeeman: we need to talk about DCAT next week
14:01:07 <Caroline> bye!
14:01:08 <laufer> bye all... nice weekend... be careful with sun... use your hats...
14:01:09 <cgueret> deirdrelee: ok and BP doc next week
14:01:09 <MTCarrasco> bye
14:01:12 <cgueret> bye
14:01:19 <gatemezi> ciao!
14:01:37 <ericstephan> I used my pickup last weekend for a swimming pool laufer
14:01:49 <ericstephan> :-)  phila
14:01:53 <laufer> lol, eric
14:01:55 <cgueret> ^_^ phila
14:03:39 <phila> regrets+ Makx
16:14:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dwbp
18:18:41 <yaso> yaso has joined #dwbp
18:31:37 <yaso> yaso has joined #dwbp
18:50:16 <yaso> yaso has joined #dwbp