13:39:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:39:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-irc
13:39:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
13:40:05 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:40:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:40:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
13:40:09 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:40:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:40:10 <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015
13:40:19 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Jul/0001.html
13:40:24 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
13:40:28 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
13:40:34 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
13:40:43 <aphillip> Regrets: Leandro, JcK
13:41:02 <aphillip> agenda+ RADAR and Active Work Review
13:41:13 <aphillip> agenda+ Bidi Plain Text
13:41:26 <aphillip> agenda+ Handling Language and Direction Metadata (was Mediastream Track Label)
13:41:39 <aphillip> agenda+ CSV Comments
13:41:49 <aphillip> agenda+ CharMod
13:41:54 <aphillip> agenda?
13:42:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:54:44 <r12a> addison, should i invite Ivan Herman to our meeting for discussion about CSV?  they are wanting to ignore further i18n issues to get to CR now
13:54:51 <r12a> Ivan is the team contact
13:58:31 <Steve_Atkin> Steve_Atkin has joined #i18n
14:00:28 <r12a> ok, i'll get my magic back out and try to summon him
14:00:35 <r12a> s/back/bag/
14:01:27 <aphillip> Present+ Addison
14:01:43 <Steve_Atkin> Present+ Steve
14:05:11 <aphillip> Present+ Dennis
14:05:12 <David> David has joined #i18n
14:05:27 <DennisTan> DennisTan has joined #i18n
14:05:40 <aphillip> Present+ Richard
14:06:08 <aphillip> Topic: Agenda
14:06:10 <aphillip> agenda?
14:06:25 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
14:07:44 <aphillip> action-364?
14:07:44 <trackbot> action-364 -- Richard Ishida to Document how "sticky" language negotiation is done in our pages as an article -- due 2014-11-07 -- OPEN
14:07:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/364
14:07:53 <aphillip> richard: put out first draft for review
14:08:12 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-site-conneg
14:08:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:08:48 <aphillip> close action-364
14:08:48 <trackbot> Closed action-364.
14:09:19 <aphillip> action-399?
14:09:19 <trackbot> action-399 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Update article "an introduction to multilingual web addresses" -- due 2015-02-12 -- OPEN
14:09:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/399
14:09:46 <aphillip> dennis: sent richard my edits
14:09:52 <aphillip> richard: what more will we do?
14:10:22 <aphillip> ... some sections may need up updating
14:10:30 <aphillip> ... some about domain names and some about path names
14:10:51 <aphillip> Present+ David
14:11:45 <r12a> will you work on path sections as well as domain name sections
14:12:12 <r12a> Dennis, will you work on path sections as well as domain name sections?
14:12:24 <DennisTan> Not an expert on path but I came find sources to update path sections
14:12:35 <aphillip> action-404?
14:12:35 <trackbot> action-404 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Check on zwj and friends in idna so that we can document in charmod-norm -- due 2015-02-19 -- OPEN
14:12:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/404
14:13:37 <aphillip> action-444?
14:13:37 <trackbot> action-444 -- Addison Phillips to Write to w3 parties requesting that the publication tool be updated to support note track documents after richard identifiers who to ping -- due 2015-06-04 -- OPEN
14:13:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/444
14:13:50 <aphillip> richard: had lots of discussions with folks but not a lot of headway
14:14:00 <aphillip> ... have to change way documents are referred to with IDs
14:14:18 <aphillip> ... have to change before this can be addressed
14:14:26 <aphillip> ... no commitment
14:14:49 <aphillip> ... worth you writing this, bearing in mind that you'll probably be told no
14:15:22 <aphillip> addison: just the echidna team?
14:15:47 <aphillip> richard: if you write to plh, he'll tell you he already explained it
14:15:55 <aphillip> ... echidna-issues as chair?
14:16:30 <aphillip> ... listed the documents that we need it for in my request, demonstrates genuine need
14:17:38 <aphillip> action-447?
14:17:38 <trackbot> action-447 -- Richard Ishida to Publish updated version of klreq -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
14:17:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/447
14:17:43 <aphillip> close action-447
14:17:43 <trackbot> Closed action-447.
14:18:09 <aphillip> action-448?
14:18:09 <trackbot> action-448 -- Addison Phillips to Write a proposal to the working group for options in handling language and direction metadata in cases such as mediastream labels -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
14:18:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/448
14:18:18 <aphillip> addison: done at https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/ContentMetadataJavaScriptDiscussion
14:18:22 <aphillip> close action-448
14:18:22 <trackbot> Closed action-448.
14:18:35 <aphillip> close action-449
14:18:35 <trackbot> Closed action-449.
14:18:49 <aphillip> action-450?
14:18:49 <trackbot> action-450 -- Richard Ishida to Ask dom to change settings to notify of all traffic on our issues via email -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
14:18:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/450
14:18:55 <aphillip> close action-450
14:18:55 <trackbot> Closed action-450.
14:19:15 <aphillip> richard: he's already done it
14:19:20 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
14:19:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:19:54 <r12a> http://w3c.github.io/tlreq/
14:20:00 <aphillip> richard: have the beginnings of a requirements document
14:20:14 <aphillip> ... tibetan
14:20:21 <aphillip> ... only a beginning... don't get too excited
14:20:41 <aphillip> richard: go ahead from plh on both arabic and ethiopic
14:21:10 <aphillip> ... coming week or so
14:21:13 <aphillip> ... get them set up
14:21:30 <aphillip> richard: mongolian stuff
14:21:49 <aphillip> ... got some people on the list
14:22:02 <aphillip> ... greg eck sent a note
14:22:12 <aphillip> ... working on standardized use of mongolian variation selectors
14:22:38 <aphillip> agenda?
14:22:45 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:22:45 <Zakim> agendum 1. "RADAR and Active Work Review" taken up [from aphillip]
14:22:48 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
14:23:42 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar
14:23:55 <aphillip> richard: reviewing tab related metadata
14:24:36 <aphillip> ... tabular data on the web
14:24:43 <aphillip> ... as well as metadata vocab
14:26:44 <aphillip> richard: layout requirements
14:26:48 <aphillip> ... chinese is moving along
14:26:52 <aphillip> ... angel is out this week
14:27:01 <aphillip> ... need to develop a plan
14:27:37 <aphillip> richard: further changes to vertical text article
14:27:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:27:54 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/articles/vertical-text/
14:29:45 <aphillip> addison: javascript, had coffee with norbert
14:30:04 <aphillip> ... the es-402 effort is kind of stalled other than being made consistenti with es-2015
14:30:10 <aphillip> agenda?
14:31:00 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 4
14:31:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "CSV Comments" taken up [from aphillip]
14:32:02 <r12a> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Jul/0000.html
14:32:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:32:34 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/617
14:32:42 <aphillip> human readable formats for numeric percentages
14:32:59 <aphillip> richard: they say in numbers section
14:33:07 <aphillip> ... to be recognized as a number, pass these criteria
14:33:13 <aphillip> ... have to have a percent sign after
14:33:25 <aphillip> ... have a decimal and thousands separator
14:33:35 <aphillip> ... didn't specify one before
14:33:46 <aphillip> ... there are other patterns you might not account for
14:33:58 <aphillip> ... implementers should allow patterns described in CLDR
14:34:09 <aphillip> ... won't have to reissue csv spec
14:34:27 <aphillip> ... they specify plus and minus signs
14:35:40 <aphillip> addison: will create trac issues, because the assumptions are wrong
14:35:54 <aphillip> richard: should csv folks ...
14:36:06 <aphillip> ... they changed to allow percent before/after, some spaces, etc.
14:36:37 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-tabular-data-model-20150416/#formats-for-numeric-types
14:37:06 <aphillip> addison:  only ascii digits
14:37:37 <aphillip> ... what about html5?
14:37:42 <aphillip> richard: did suggest early on?
14:39:48 <aphillip> (333.33)
14:42:01 <aphillip> addison: agree we should push back, they should  use cldr patters and tokens to accomplish this
14:42:10 <aphillip> ... use same data values
14:42:22 <aphillip> steve: need to support cldr
14:42:32 <aphillip> ... that's how we're presenting data---based on these formats
14:44:04 <aphillip> action: addison: respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the WG believes that CLDR's values and data structures are needed
14:44:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-451 - Respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the wg believes that cldr's values and data structures are needed [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-07-09].
14:44:19 <aphillip> richard: ivan proposed a compromise, haven't reviewed yet
14:44:47 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/620
14:44:52 <aphillip> determining cell text direction
14:45:26 <aphillip> richard: things are messy for text direction
14:45:36 <aphillip> ... explaining what's going on
14:45:56 <aphillip> ... mati's response not yet included
14:46:00 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/pull/638
14:46:12 <aphillip> richard: here is jenny's request for review of changes
14:46:25 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/commit/371df96619086f6c62ce7e1781fcf5fb94055415
14:46:48 <aphillip> s/jenny's/Jeni's/
14:46:56 <aphillip> richard: mati raised additional issues
14:47:03 <aphillip> ... this is complicated to discuss
14:47:37 <aphillip> steve: mati looking for inheritance hierarchy of direction
14:47:51 <aphillip> richard: if you set a default direction and then look for first strong
14:47:54 <aphillip> ...explained you only want one
14:48:03 <aphillip> ... mati has some good comments on hierarchy
14:48:45 <aphillip> ... they say somewhere in here is a default
14:48:50 <aphillip> ... and the default is inherit
14:48:58 <aphillip> ... bring in ivan now?
14:49:02 <aphillip> addison: oaky
14:49:08 <aphillip> s/oaky/okay/
14:49:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:49:25 <aphillip> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m57e9ca8f57e92da37d5beb9cf9f03c9f
14:50:23 <aphillip> addison: can't have a default of inherit
14:50:33 <aphillip> ... most places default is ltr
14:50:41 <aphillip> richard: should it be auto
14:50:58 <ivan> ivan has joined #i18n
14:51:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:51:59 <aphillip> richard: timing for comments
14:52:17 <aphillip> ivan: under extreme time pressure
14:52:23 <aphillip> ... charter ends in september or so
14:52:34 <aphillip> ... so want to publish a CR
14:52:40 <aphillip> ... transition call in a week
14:53:05 <aphillip> ... if deadline cannot hold, it's difficult
14:53:41 <aphillip> ... we'd have to extend charter, CR needed to help ensure that
15:03:41 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/618
15:05:56 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/617#issuecomment-118039661
15:06:46 <aphillip> http://w3c.github.io/ltli/
15:15:47 <r12a> http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/by_type/numbers.number_formatting_patterns.html
15:19:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:22:33 <aphillip> ivan: can you put this alternative in?
15:22:41 <aphillip> richard: yes, will do it tomorrow?
15:22:55 <aphillip> ... will do tonight
15:23:35 <aphillip> addison: will read and comment; waiting on richard to comment on numbers
15:24:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:25:57 <ivan> ivan has left #i18n
15:25:59 <r12a> ah, :)
15:26:05 <r12a> do you want to continue?
15:26:22 <r12a> (i'm not sure whether we can get the line back)
15:26:38 <r12a> i wasn't
15:26:45 <aphillip> ah, okay
15:26:53 <r12a> just wanted to make sure you were happy to finish at that point
15:27:17 <r12a> although it might be useful to briefly discuss the CLDR thread on book, if you have time
15:27:18 <aphillip> yep... lost the rest fo the audience, need to go on to normal work day... ;-)
15:27:23 <aphillip> sure
15:27:27 <aphillip> can do that
15:27:33 <r12a> ok, skype the?
15:27:34 <r12a> n?
15:27:41 <aphillip> skype
17:27:26 <aphillip> zakim, bye
17:27:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
17:27:31 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
17:27:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:27:34 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
17:27:34 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-actions.rdf :
17:27:34 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the WG believes that CLDR's values and data structures are needed [1]
17:27:34 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-irc#T14-44-04