IRC log of i18n on 2015-07-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:39:56 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18n
- 13:39:56 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-irc
- 13:39:59 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #i18n
- 13:40:05 [aphillip]
- trackbot, prepare teleconference
- 13:40:07 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 13:40:09 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 4186
- 13:40:09 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 13:40:10 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
- 13:40:10 [trackbot]
- Date: 02 July 2015
- 13:40:19 [aphillip]
- Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Jul/0001.html
- 13:40:24 [aphillip]
- ScribeNick: aphillip
- 13:40:28 [aphillip]
- Scribe: Addison Phillips
- 13:40:34 [aphillip]
- Chair: Addison Phillips
- 13:40:43 [aphillip]
- Regrets: Leandro, JcK
- 13:41:02 [aphillip]
- agenda+ RADAR and Active Work Review
- 13:41:13 [aphillip]
- agenda+ Bidi Plain Text
- 13:41:26 [aphillip]
- agenda+ Handling Language and Direction Metadata (was Mediastream Track Label)
- 13:41:39 [aphillip]
- agenda+ CSV Comments
- 13:41:49 [aphillip]
- agenda+ CharMod
- 13:41:54 [aphillip]
- agenda?
- 13:42:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 13:54:44 [r12a]
- addison, should i invite Ivan Herman to our meeting for discussion about CSV? they are wanting to ignore further i18n issues to get to CR now
- 13:54:51 [r12a]
- Ivan is the team contact
- 13:58:31 [Steve_Atkin]
- Steve_Atkin has joined #i18n
- 14:00:28 [r12a]
- ok, i'll get my magic back out and try to summon him
- 14:00:35 [r12a]
- s/back/bag/
- 14:01:27 [aphillip]
- Present+ Addison
- 14:01:43 [Steve_Atkin]
- Present+ Steve
- 14:05:11 [aphillip]
- Present+ Dennis
- 14:05:12 [David]
- David has joined #i18n
- 14:05:27 [DennisTan]
- DennisTan has joined #i18n
- 14:05:40 [aphillip]
- Present+ Richard
- 14:06:08 [aphillip]
- Topic: Agenda
- 14:06:10 [aphillip]
- agenda?
- 14:06:25 [aphillip]
- Topic: Action Items
- 14:07:44 [aphillip]
- action-364?
- 14:07:44 [trackbot]
- action-364 -- Richard Ishida to Document how "sticky" language negotiation is done in our pages as an article -- due 2014-11-07 -- OPEN
- 14:07:44 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/364
- 14:07:53 [aphillip]
- richard: put out first draft for review
- 14:08:12 [r12a]
- http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-site-conneg
- 14:08:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:08:48 [aphillip]
- close action-364
- 14:08:48 [trackbot]
- Closed action-364.
- 14:09:19 [aphillip]
- action-399?
- 14:09:19 [trackbot]
- action-399 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Update article "an introduction to multilingual web addresses" -- due 2015-02-12 -- OPEN
- 14:09:19 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/399
- 14:09:46 [aphillip]
- dennis: sent richard my edits
- 14:09:52 [aphillip]
- richard: what more will we do?
- 14:10:22 [aphillip]
- ... some sections may need up updating
- 14:10:30 [aphillip]
- ... some about domain names and some about path names
- 14:10:51 [aphillip]
- Present+ David
- 14:11:45 [r12a]
- will you work on path sections as well as domain name sections
- 14:12:12 [r12a]
- Dennis, will you work on path sections as well as domain name sections?
- 14:12:24 [DennisTan]
- Not an expert on path but I came find sources to update path sections
- 14:12:35 [aphillip]
- action-404?
- 14:12:35 [trackbot]
- action-404 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Check on zwj and friends in idna so that we can document in charmod-norm -- due 2015-02-19 -- OPEN
- 14:12:35 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/404
- 14:13:37 [aphillip]
- action-444?
- 14:13:37 [trackbot]
- action-444 -- Addison Phillips to Write to w3 parties requesting that the publication tool be updated to support note track documents after richard identifiers who to ping -- due 2015-06-04 -- OPEN
- 14:13:37 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/444
- 14:13:50 [aphillip]
- richard: had lots of discussions with folks but not a lot of headway
- 14:14:00 [aphillip]
- ... have to change way documents are referred to with IDs
- 14:14:18 [aphillip]
- ... have to change before this can be addressed
- 14:14:26 [aphillip]
- ... no commitment
- 14:14:49 [aphillip]
- ... worth you writing this, bearing in mind that you'll probably be told no
- 14:15:22 [aphillip]
- addison: just the echidna team?
- 14:15:47 [aphillip]
- richard: if you write to plh, he'll tell you he already explained it
- 14:15:55 [aphillip]
- ... echidna-issues as chair?
- 14:16:30 [aphillip]
- ... listed the documents that we need it for in my request, demonstrates genuine need
- 14:17:38 [aphillip]
- action-447?
- 14:17:38 [trackbot]
- action-447 -- Richard Ishida to Publish updated version of klreq -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
- 14:17:38 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/447
- 14:17:43 [aphillip]
- close action-447
- 14:17:43 [trackbot]
- Closed action-447.
- 14:18:09 [aphillip]
- action-448?
- 14:18:09 [trackbot]
- action-448 -- Addison Phillips to Write a proposal to the working group for options in handling language and direction metadata in cases such as mediastream labels -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
- 14:18:09 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/448
- 14:18:18 [aphillip]
- addison: done at https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/ContentMetadataJavaScriptDiscussion
- 14:18:22 [aphillip]
- close action-448
- 14:18:22 [trackbot]
- Closed action-448.
- 14:18:35 [aphillip]
- close action-449
- 14:18:35 [trackbot]
- Closed action-449.
- 14:18:49 [aphillip]
- action-450?
- 14:18:49 [trackbot]
- action-450 -- Richard Ishida to Ask dom to change settings to notify of all traffic on our issues via email -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
- 14:18:49 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/450
- 14:18:55 [aphillip]
- close action-450
- 14:18:55 [trackbot]
- Closed action-450.
- 14:19:15 [aphillip]
- richard: he's already done it
- 14:19:20 [aphillip]
- Topic: Info Share
- 14:19:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:19:54 [r12a]
- http://w3c.github.io/tlreq/
- 14:20:00 [aphillip]
- richard: have the beginnings of a requirements document
- 14:20:14 [aphillip]
- ... tibetan
- 14:20:21 [aphillip]
- ... only a beginning... don't get too excited
- 14:20:41 [aphillip]
- richard: go ahead from plh on both arabic and ethiopic
- 14:21:10 [aphillip]
- ... coming week or so
- 14:21:13 [aphillip]
- ... get them set up
- 14:21:30 [aphillip]
- richard: mongolian stuff
- 14:21:49 [aphillip]
- ... got some people on the list
- 14:22:02 [aphillip]
- ... greg eck sent a note
- 14:22:12 [aphillip]
- ... working on standardized use of mongolian variation selectors
- 14:22:38 [aphillip]
- agenda?
- 14:22:45 [aphillip]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 14:22:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "RADAR and Active Work Review" taken up [from aphillip]
- 14:22:48 [aphillip]
- https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
- 14:23:42 [aphillip]
- https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar
- 14:23:55 [aphillip]
- richard: reviewing tab related metadata
- 14:24:36 [aphillip]
- ... tabular data on the web
- 14:24:43 [aphillip]
- ... as well as metadata vocab
- 14:26:44 [aphillip]
- richard: layout requirements
- 14:26:48 [aphillip]
- ... chinese is moving along
- 14:26:52 [aphillip]
- ... angel is out this week
- 14:27:01 [aphillip]
- ... need to develop a plan
- 14:27:37 [aphillip]
- richard: further changes to vertical text article
- 14:27:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:27:54 [r12a]
- http://www.w3.org/International/articles/vertical-text/
- 14:29:45 [aphillip]
- addison: javascript, had coffee with norbert
- 14:30:04 [aphillip]
- ... the es-402 effort is kind of stalled other than being made consistenti with es-2015
- 14:30:10 [aphillip]
- agenda?
- 14:31:00 [aphillip]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 14:31:00 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "CSV Comments" taken up [from aphillip]
- 14:32:02 [r12a]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Jul/0000.html
- 14:32:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:32:34 [aphillip]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/617
- 14:32:42 [aphillip]
- human readable formats for numeric percentages
- 14:32:59 [aphillip]
- richard: they say in numbers section
- 14:33:07 [aphillip]
- ... to be recognized as a number, pass these criteria
- 14:33:13 [aphillip]
- ... have to have a percent sign after
- 14:33:25 [aphillip]
- ... have a decimal and thousands separator
- 14:33:35 [aphillip]
- ... didn't specify one before
- 14:33:46 [aphillip]
- ... there are other patterns you might not account for
- 14:33:58 [aphillip]
- ... implementers should allow patterns described in CLDR
- 14:34:09 [aphillip]
- ... won't have to reissue csv spec
- 14:34:27 [aphillip]
- ... they specify plus and minus signs
- 14:35:40 [aphillip]
- addison: will create trac issues, because the assumptions are wrong
- 14:35:54 [aphillip]
- richard: should csv folks ...
- 14:36:06 [aphillip]
- ... they changed to allow percent before/after, some spaces, etc.
- 14:36:37 [aphillip]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-tabular-data-model-20150416/#formats-for-numeric-types
- 14:37:06 [aphillip]
- addison: only ascii digits
- 14:37:37 [aphillip]
- ... what about html5?
- 14:37:42 [aphillip]
- richard: did suggest early on?
- 14:39:48 [aphillip]
- (333.33)
- 14:42:01 [aphillip]
- addison: agree we should push back, they should use cldr patters and tokens to accomplish this
- 14:42:10 [aphillip]
- ... use same data values
- 14:42:22 [aphillip]
- steve: need to support cldr
- 14:42:32 [aphillip]
- ... that's how we're presenting data---based on these formats
- 14:44:04 [aphillip]
- action: addison: respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the WG believes that CLDR's values and data structures are needed
- 14:44:04 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-451 - Respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the wg believes that cldr's values and data structures are needed [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-07-09].
- 14:44:19 [aphillip]
- richard: ivan proposed a compromise, haven't reviewed yet
- 14:44:47 [aphillip]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/620
- 14:44:52 [aphillip]
- determining cell text direction
- 14:45:26 [aphillip]
- richard: things are messy for text direction
- 14:45:36 [aphillip]
- ... explaining what's going on
- 14:45:56 [aphillip]
- ... mati's response not yet included
- 14:46:00 [r12a]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/pull/638
- 14:46:12 [aphillip]
- richard: here is jenny's request for review of changes
- 14:46:25 [r12a]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/commit/371df96619086f6c62ce7e1781fcf5fb94055415
- 14:46:48 [aphillip]
- s/jenny's/Jeni's/
- 14:46:56 [aphillip]
- richard: mati raised additional issues
- 14:47:03 [aphillip]
- ... this is complicated to discuss
- 14:47:37 [aphillip]
- steve: mati looking for inheritance hierarchy of direction
- 14:47:51 [aphillip]
- richard: if you set a default direction and then look for first strong
- 14:47:54 [aphillip]
- ...explained you only want one
- 14:48:03 [aphillip]
- ... mati has some good comments on hierarchy
- 14:48:45 [aphillip]
- ... they say somewhere in here is a default
- 14:48:50 [aphillip]
- ... and the default is inherit
- 14:48:58 [aphillip]
- ... bring in ivan now?
- 14:49:02 [aphillip]
- addison: oaky
- 14:49:08 [aphillip]
- s/oaky/okay/
- 14:49:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:49:25 [aphillip]
- https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m57e9ca8f57e92da37d5beb9cf9f03c9f
- 14:50:23 [aphillip]
- addison: can't have a default of inherit
- 14:50:33 [aphillip]
- ... most places default is ltr
- 14:50:41 [aphillip]
- richard: should it be auto
- 14:50:58 [ivan]
- ivan has joined #i18n
- 14:51:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 14:51:59 [aphillip]
- richard: timing for comments
- 14:52:17 [aphillip]
- ivan: under extreme time pressure
- 14:52:23 [aphillip]
- ... charter ends in september or so
- 14:52:34 [aphillip]
- ... so want to publish a CR
- 14:52:40 [aphillip]
- ... transition call in a week
- 14:53:05 [aphillip]
- ... if deadline cannot hold, it's difficult
- 14:53:41 [aphillip]
- ... we'd have to extend charter, CR needed to help ensure that
- 15:03:41 [aphillip]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/618
- 15:05:56 [ivan]
- https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/617#issuecomment-118039661
- 15:06:46 [aphillip]
- http://w3c.github.io/ltli/
- 15:15:47 [r12a]
- http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/by_type/numbers.number_formatting_patterns.html
- 15:19:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 15:22:33 [aphillip]
- ivan: can you put this alternative in?
- 15:22:41 [aphillip]
- richard: yes, will do it tomorrow?
- 15:22:55 [aphillip]
- ... will do tonight
- 15:23:35 [aphillip]
- addison: will read and comment; waiting on richard to comment on numbers
- 15:24:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 15:25:57 [ivan]
- ivan has left #i18n
- 15:25:59 [r12a]
- ah, :)
- 15:26:05 [r12a]
- do you want to continue?
- 15:26:22 [r12a]
- (i'm not sure whether we can get the line back)
- 15:26:38 [r12a]
- i wasn't
- 15:26:45 [aphillip]
- ah, okay
- 15:26:53 [r12a]
- just wanted to make sure you were happy to finish at that point
- 15:27:17 [r12a]
- although it might be useful to briefly discuss the CLDR thread on book, if you have time
- 15:27:18 [aphillip]
- yep... lost the rest fo the audience, need to go on to normal work day... ;-)
- 15:27:23 [aphillip]
- sure
- 15:27:27 [aphillip]
- can do that
- 15:27:33 [r12a]
- ok, skype the?
- 15:27:34 [r12a]
- n?
- 15:27:41 [aphillip]
- skype
- 17:27:26 [aphillip]
- zakim, bye
- 17:27:26 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18n
- 17:27:31 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 17:27:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
- 17:27:34 [aphillip]
- rrsagent, bye
- 17:27:34 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-actions.rdf :
- 17:27:34 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: addison: respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the WG believes that CLDR's values and data structures are needed [1]
- 17:27:34 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-irc#T14-44-04