IRC log of i18n on 2015-07-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:39:56 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #i18n
13:39:56 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-irc
13:39:59 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #i18n
13:40:05 [aphillip]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
13:40:07 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:40:09 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 4186
13:40:09 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:40:10 [trackbot]
Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
13:40:10 [trackbot]
Date: 02 July 2015
13:40:19 [aphillip]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Jul/0001.html
13:40:24 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
13:40:28 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
13:40:34 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
13:40:43 [aphillip]
Regrets: Leandro, JcK
13:41:02 [aphillip]
agenda+ RADAR and Active Work Review
13:41:13 [aphillip]
agenda+ Bidi Plain Text
13:41:26 [aphillip]
agenda+ Handling Language and Direction Metadata (was Mediastream Track Label)
13:41:39 [aphillip]
agenda+ CSV Comments
13:41:49 [aphillip]
agenda+ CharMod
13:41:54 [aphillip]
agenda?
13:42:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
13:54:44 [r12a]
addison, should i invite Ivan Herman to our meeting for discussion about CSV? they are wanting to ignore further i18n issues to get to CR now
13:54:51 [r12a]
Ivan is the team contact
13:58:31 [Steve_Atkin]
Steve_Atkin has joined #i18n
14:00:28 [r12a]
ok, i'll get my magic back out and try to summon him
14:00:35 [r12a]
s/back/bag/
14:01:27 [aphillip]
Present+ Addison
14:01:43 [Steve_Atkin]
Present+ Steve
14:05:11 [aphillip]
Present+ Dennis
14:05:12 [David]
David has joined #i18n
14:05:27 [DennisTan]
DennisTan has joined #i18n
14:05:40 [aphillip]
Present+ Richard
14:06:08 [aphillip]
Topic: Agenda
14:06:10 [aphillip]
agenda?
14:06:25 [aphillip]
Topic: Action Items
14:07:44 [aphillip]
action-364?
14:07:44 [trackbot]
action-364 -- Richard Ishida to Document how "sticky" language negotiation is done in our pages as an article -- due 2014-11-07 -- OPEN
14:07:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/364
14:07:53 [aphillip]
richard: put out first draft for review
14:08:12 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-site-conneg
14:08:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:08:48 [aphillip]
close action-364
14:08:48 [trackbot]
Closed action-364.
14:09:19 [aphillip]
action-399?
14:09:19 [trackbot]
action-399 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Update article "an introduction to multilingual web addresses" -- due 2015-02-12 -- OPEN
14:09:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/399
14:09:46 [aphillip]
dennis: sent richard my edits
14:09:52 [aphillip]
richard: what more will we do?
14:10:22 [aphillip]
... some sections may need up updating
14:10:30 [aphillip]
... some about domain names and some about path names
14:10:51 [aphillip]
Present+ David
14:11:45 [r12a]
will you work on path sections as well as domain name sections
14:12:12 [r12a]
Dennis, will you work on path sections as well as domain name sections?
14:12:24 [DennisTan]
Not an expert on path but I came find sources to update path sections
14:12:35 [aphillip]
action-404?
14:12:35 [trackbot]
action-404 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Check on zwj and friends in idna so that we can document in charmod-norm -- due 2015-02-19 -- OPEN
14:12:35 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/404
14:13:37 [aphillip]
action-444?
14:13:37 [trackbot]
action-444 -- Addison Phillips to Write to w3 parties requesting that the publication tool be updated to support note track documents after richard identifiers who to ping -- due 2015-06-04 -- OPEN
14:13:37 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/444
14:13:50 [aphillip]
richard: had lots of discussions with folks but not a lot of headway
14:14:00 [aphillip]
... have to change way documents are referred to with IDs
14:14:18 [aphillip]
... have to change before this can be addressed
14:14:26 [aphillip]
... no commitment
14:14:49 [aphillip]
... worth you writing this, bearing in mind that you'll probably be told no
14:15:22 [aphillip]
addison: just the echidna team?
14:15:47 [aphillip]
richard: if you write to plh, he'll tell you he already explained it
14:15:55 [aphillip]
... echidna-issues as chair?
14:16:30 [aphillip]
... listed the documents that we need it for in my request, demonstrates genuine need
14:17:38 [aphillip]
action-447?
14:17:38 [trackbot]
action-447 -- Richard Ishida to Publish updated version of klreq -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
14:17:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/447
14:17:43 [aphillip]
close action-447
14:17:43 [trackbot]
Closed action-447.
14:18:09 [aphillip]
action-448?
14:18:09 [trackbot]
action-448 -- Addison Phillips to Write a proposal to the working group for options in handling language and direction metadata in cases such as mediastream labels -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
14:18:09 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/448
14:18:18 [aphillip]
addison: done at https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/ContentMetadataJavaScriptDiscussion
14:18:22 [aphillip]
close action-448
14:18:22 [trackbot]
Closed action-448.
14:18:35 [aphillip]
close action-449
14:18:35 [trackbot]
Closed action-449.
14:18:49 [aphillip]
action-450?
14:18:49 [trackbot]
action-450 -- Richard Ishida to Ask dom to change settings to notify of all traffic on our issues via email -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
14:18:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/450
14:18:55 [aphillip]
close action-450
14:18:55 [trackbot]
Closed action-450.
14:19:15 [aphillip]
richard: he's already done it
14:19:20 [aphillip]
Topic: Info Share
14:19:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:19:54 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/tlreq/
14:20:00 [aphillip]
richard: have the beginnings of a requirements document
14:20:14 [aphillip]
... tibetan
14:20:21 [aphillip]
... only a beginning... don't get too excited
14:20:41 [aphillip]
richard: go ahead from plh on both arabic and ethiopic
14:21:10 [aphillip]
... coming week or so
14:21:13 [aphillip]
... get them set up
14:21:30 [aphillip]
richard: mongolian stuff
14:21:49 [aphillip]
... got some people on the list
14:22:02 [aphillip]
... greg eck sent a note
14:22:12 [aphillip]
... working on standardized use of mongolian variation selectors
14:22:38 [aphillip]
agenda?
14:22:45 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:22:45 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "RADAR and Active Work Review" taken up [from aphillip]
14:22:48 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
14:23:42 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar
14:23:55 [aphillip]
richard: reviewing tab related metadata
14:24:36 [aphillip]
... tabular data on the web
14:24:43 [aphillip]
... as well as metadata vocab
14:26:44 [aphillip]
richard: layout requirements
14:26:48 [aphillip]
... chinese is moving along
14:26:52 [aphillip]
... angel is out this week
14:27:01 [aphillip]
... need to develop a plan
14:27:37 [aphillip]
richard: further changes to vertical text article
14:27:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:27:54 [r12a]
http://www.w3.org/International/articles/vertical-text/
14:29:45 [aphillip]
addison: javascript, had coffee with norbert
14:30:04 [aphillip]
... the es-402 effort is kind of stalled other than being made consistenti with es-2015
14:30:10 [aphillip]
agenda?
14:31:00 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 4
14:31:00 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "CSV Comments" taken up [from aphillip]
14:32:02 [r12a]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Jul/0000.html
14:32:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:32:34 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/617
14:32:42 [aphillip]
human readable formats for numeric percentages
14:32:59 [aphillip]
richard: they say in numbers section
14:33:07 [aphillip]
... to be recognized as a number, pass these criteria
14:33:13 [aphillip]
... have to have a percent sign after
14:33:25 [aphillip]
... have a decimal and thousands separator
14:33:35 [aphillip]
... didn't specify one before
14:33:46 [aphillip]
... there are other patterns you might not account for
14:33:58 [aphillip]
... implementers should allow patterns described in CLDR
14:34:09 [aphillip]
... won't have to reissue csv spec
14:34:27 [aphillip]
... they specify plus and minus signs
14:35:40 [aphillip]
addison: will create trac issues, because the assumptions are wrong
14:35:54 [aphillip]
richard: should csv folks ...
14:36:06 [aphillip]
... they changed to allow percent before/after, some spaces, etc.
14:36:37 [aphillip]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-tabular-data-model-20150416/#formats-for-numeric-types
14:37:06 [aphillip]
addison: only ascii digits
14:37:37 [aphillip]
... what about html5?
14:37:42 [aphillip]
richard: did suggest early on?
14:39:48 [aphillip]
(333.33)
14:42:01 [aphillip]
addison: agree we should push back, they should use cldr patters and tokens to accomplish this
14:42:10 [aphillip]
... use same data values
14:42:22 [aphillip]
steve: need to support cldr
14:42:32 [aphillip]
... that's how we're presenting data---based on these formats
14:44:04 [aphillip]
action: addison: respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the WG believes that CLDR's values and data structures are needed
14:44:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-451 - Respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the wg believes that cldr's values and data structures are needed [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-07-09].
14:44:19 [aphillip]
richard: ivan proposed a compromise, haven't reviewed yet
14:44:47 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/620
14:44:52 [aphillip]
determining cell text direction
14:45:26 [aphillip]
richard: things are messy for text direction
14:45:36 [aphillip]
... explaining what's going on
14:45:56 [aphillip]
... mati's response not yet included
14:46:00 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/csvw/pull/638
14:46:12 [aphillip]
richard: here is jenny's request for review of changes
14:46:25 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/csvw/commit/371df96619086f6c62ce7e1781fcf5fb94055415
14:46:48 [aphillip]
s/jenny's/Jeni's/
14:46:56 [aphillip]
richard: mati raised additional issues
14:47:03 [aphillip]
... this is complicated to discuss
14:47:37 [aphillip]
steve: mati looking for inheritance hierarchy of direction
14:47:51 [aphillip]
richard: if you set a default direction and then look for first strong
14:47:54 [aphillip]
...explained you only want one
14:48:03 [aphillip]
... mati has some good comments on hierarchy
14:48:45 [aphillip]
... they say somewhere in here is a default
14:48:50 [aphillip]
... and the default is inherit
14:48:58 [aphillip]
... bring in ivan now?
14:49:02 [aphillip]
addison: oaky
14:49:08 [aphillip]
s/oaky/okay/
14:49:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:49:25 [aphillip]
https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m57e9ca8f57e92da37d5beb9cf9f03c9f
14:50:23 [aphillip]
addison: can't have a default of inherit
14:50:33 [aphillip]
... most places default is ltr
14:50:41 [aphillip]
richard: should it be auto
14:50:58 [ivan]
ivan has joined #i18n
14:51:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:51:59 [aphillip]
richard: timing for comments
14:52:17 [aphillip]
ivan: under extreme time pressure
14:52:23 [aphillip]
... charter ends in september or so
14:52:34 [aphillip]
... so want to publish a CR
14:52:40 [aphillip]
... transition call in a week
14:53:05 [aphillip]
... if deadline cannot hold, it's difficult
14:53:41 [aphillip]
... we'd have to extend charter, CR needed to help ensure that
15:03:41 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/618
15:05:56 [ivan]
https://github.com/w3c/csvw/issues/617#issuecomment-118039661
15:06:46 [aphillip]
http://w3c.github.io/ltli/
15:15:47 [r12a]
http://www.unicode.org/cldr/charts/latest/by_type/numbers.number_formatting_patterns.html
15:19:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:22:33 [aphillip]
ivan: can you put this alternative in?
15:22:41 [aphillip]
richard: yes, will do it tomorrow?
15:22:55 [aphillip]
... will do tonight
15:23:35 [aphillip]
addison: will read and comment; waiting on richard to comment on numbers
15:24:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:25:57 [ivan]
ivan has left #i18n
15:25:59 [r12a]
ah, :)
15:26:05 [r12a]
do you want to continue?
15:26:22 [r12a]
(i'm not sure whether we can get the line back)
15:26:38 [r12a]
i wasn't
15:26:45 [aphillip]
ah, okay
15:26:53 [r12a]
just wanted to make sure you were happy to finish at that point
15:27:17 [r12a]
although it might be useful to briefly discuss the CLDR thread on book, if you have time
15:27:18 [aphillip]
yep... lost the rest fo the audience, need to go on to normal work day... ;-)
15:27:23 [aphillip]
sure
15:27:27 [aphillip]
can do that
15:27:33 [r12a]
ok, skype the?
15:27:34 [r12a]
n?
15:27:41 [aphillip]
skype
17:27:26 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
17:27:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
17:27:31 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:27:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
17:27:34 [aphillip]
rrsagent, bye
17:27:34 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-actions.rdf :
17:27:34 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: addison: respond on csvw issue 617 officially explaining that the WG believes that CLDR's values and data structures are needed [1]
17:27:34 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-i18n-irc#T14-44-04