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15:01:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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15:01:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HCLS
15:01:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
15:01:58 <trackbot> Date: 24 June 2015
15:06:30 <dbooth> Topic: FHIR element ordering
15:06:38 <Tony> Tony has joined #HCLS
15:07:11 <dbooth> Comparison of approaches: https://goo.gl/DKcm0U
15:07:26 <Marc> Marc has joined #HCLS
15:07:49 <dbooth> https://goo.gl/DKcm0U
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15:16:50 <dbooth> https://goo.gl/DKcm0U
15:25:51 <dbooth> rdf:rest / rdf:rest / rdf:rest / rdf:first
15:30:36 <ericP> +1 +0 -1
15:30:43 <dbooth> Who prefers which option?
15:30:53 <dbooth> option 1
15:30:53 <Lloyd> +1 +0 -1
15:31:04 <Marc> +1 -1 -1
15:31:25 <dbooth> paul: +1 0 -1
15:31:26 <Tony> +1 -1 -1
15:31:57 <dbooth> rob: option 1?  (abstain)
15:32:07 <dbooth> +1 +0 -1
15:32:32 <dbooth> AGREED: Option 1 for ordering
15:33:38 <dbooth> tony: what namespace to use for fhirRdf:index ?
15:34:04 <dbooth> marc: good to have one namespace
15:34:40 <dbooth> ISSUE: What namespace to use for fhirRdf:index ?
15:34:40 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-13 - What namespace to use for fhirrdf:index ?.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/issues/13/edit>.
15:35:33 <dbooth> lloyd: within repeating elements, the structure definition allows repetition, and round tripping must retain ordering.
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15:37:16 <dbooth> lloyd: suggest fhirRdf:_index , because we might have the word "index" in several places.
15:38:00 <dbooth> ... also calls out that this is a special beast.
15:39:57 <dbooth> AGREED: Start fhirRdf:index with 1
15:41:27 <dbooth> lloyd: everything else would have a class prefix on the local name, like fhir:Observation.code , whereas this would not have a class first.
15:41:45 <dbooth> ... We could say this is a property of Element.
15:42:13 <dbooth> ... there's a certain appeal to saying fhir:index
15:43:56 <dbooth> eric: when we start relating property names between classes, when two properties have the same meaning, how would we name them?
15:45:04 <dbooth> dbooth: My initial thought is that we wouldn't rename properties that are in common -- the ont would just indicate that they are the same.
15:45:54 <dbooth> AGREED: Use fhir:index (and change later if we need to)
15:46:31 <dbooth> Topic: Side-by-side example of two FHIR RDF approaches
15:46:41 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=File:FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:47:01 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
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15:54:24 <dbooth> lines 459 and 464-465
15:57:07 <dbooth> dbooth: on line 459, if you're using FHIR XML and you do an HTTP GET of http://record#PeterPatient , what are you supposed to receive?  FHIR XML?
15:58:12 <dbooth> tony: you get back a patient resource, in FHIR XML or whatever format you requested
16:00:39 <dbooth> dbooth: on line 463, where did fhir:Reference.display come from?  It isn't in the FHIR XML?
16:00:40 <ericP> <element> <path value="AllergyIntolerance.recorder"/> <min value="0"/> <max value="1"/> <type><code value="Reference"/><profile value="http://hl7.org/fhir/StructureDefinition/Practitioner"/></type> <type><code value="Reference"/><profile value="http://hl7.org/fhir/StructureDefinition/Patient"/></type>
16:00:45 <ericP> </element>
16:01:21 <dbooth> tony: I'll add that after line 459
16:01:25 <ericP> <element>
16:01:29 <ericP>   <path value="AllergyIntolerance.recorder"/> <min value="0"/> <max value="1"/>
16:01:34 <ericP>   <type><code value="Reference"/><profile value="http://hl7.org/fhir/StructureDefinition/Practitioner"/></type>
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16:04:05 <dbooth> dbooth: When you GET http://record#PeterPatient , does the FHIR RDF that you get back identify the patient using that same URI?   We need to nail that down.
16:05:07 <dbooth> ... At the moment on line 465 it looks like you are assuming that the patient will NOT be identified using the same URI.
16:05:09 <ericP> http://piratepad.net/hcls
16:06:27 <dbooth> eric: What if you get back a bundle?
16:06:53 <dbooth> ... How do we know if a bundle is permitted?
16:07:02 <dbooth> tony: Don't know.  Haven't got to bundles yet.
16:09:27 <dbooth> eric: There's  raging debate in the RDF world about whether to distinguish between a document URI and the thing it describes.
16:12:45 <dbooth> eric: The people who care about making a distinction do it in two ways: 1. frag ID (with media type). 2. Use a 303 redirect.
16:13:35 <dbooth> tony: Recommendation?
16:15:13 <dbooth> eric: we should be able to compose the RDF URI for the patient from the info in the FHIR XML
16:15:43 <dbooth> tony: why would the resource ID in the document be different from the document ID?
16:16:38 <dbooth> eric: When there is some logic in the object model, and that logic allows you to deref a URI, then we need to emulate those semantics in RDF.
16:16:46 <dbooth> tony: agreed
16:20:46 <dbooth> eric: If I get RDF for  a patient problem, I think there's some glue in the protocol that says that if I do a GET on a URI, the FHIR data you get back is that thing at the top of the XML hierarchy.
16:22:14 <dbooth> ... If we say that FHIR RDF is isomorphic with FHIR XML, then we need a way to identify the starting node, analogous to the top level node in XML.
16:24:17 <dbooth> ... If I get some FHIR XML, with a reference, I need to be able to compose the URI for Peter Patient from it.
16:24:39 <dbooth> ... That link needs to point to either something in the graph or something that's created by the conversion process.
16:27:14 <dbooth> dbooth: When <patient> has a <reference> to http://record#PeterPatient , the system that does a GET is expecting a Patient to be returned.  That expectation is what allows the system to look for a Patient in the data that's returned.
16:28:28 <dbooth> eric: what if there are two patients in the data returned?
16:29:05 <dbooth> ... The FHIR RDF will need to contain a pointer to its root element.
16:29:31 <dbooth> ... I believe a resource ID can also be served from multiple URLs.
16:30:21 <dbooth> ... With FHIR XML, when you get back FHIR XML you know what the root element is.
16:31:13 <dbooth> ... Normally the URL at which you GET some RDF is not a URL in the returned document.
16:33:33 <dbooth> Paul: Suggest unpacking the GET problem in to a small example, as specific as possible and grounded in some content.  Hard to follow.
16:35:36 <dbooth> eric: I'll implement it in the translator and show you.
16:36:07 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
16:38:54 <dbooth> Present: David Booth, EricP, Lloyd McKenzie, MarcT, Paul Courtney, Rob Hausam, Tony Mallia
16:39:17 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
16:39:24 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:39:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/24-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
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