12:57:15 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 12:57:15 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-dwbp-irc 12:57:17 RRSAgent, make logs 351 12:57:17 Zakim has joined #dwbp 12:57:19 Zakim, this will be DWBP 12:57:19 ok, trackbot; I see DATA_DWBP()9:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 12:57:20 Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 12:57:20 Date: 19 June 2015 12:57:42 present+ deirdrelee 12:59:11 BartvanLeeuwen has joined #dwbp 12:59:36 hi, is there a meeting like now ? 12:59:45 RiccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP 13:00:47 hey bar 13:00:48 t 13:00:54 yip, meeting now 13:01:00 Caroline has joined #DWBP 13:01:01 Hello! 13:01:05 i guess everyone's having fun with webex 13:01:13 What is the link of Webex, please? 13:01:18 newton has joined #dwbp 13:01:50 Newton found it 13:01:50 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150619 13:01:51 thank you! 13:01:53 present+ hadleybeeman 13:02:01 present+ BartvanLeeuwen 13:02:10 BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp 13:02:31 Webex link: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m2c0af451188e3c2177f8d56453c588e9 13:02:50 Hi all 13:03:00 hadleybeeman has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150619 Webex link: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m2c0af451188e3c2177f8d56453c588e9 13:03:09 I m having problems with the sound... 13:03:22 antoine has joined #dwbp 13:03:29 present+ antoine 13:03:41 laufer has joined #dwbp 13:04:07 annette_g has joined #dwbp 13:06:30 MTCarrasco has joined #dwbp 13:06:58 phila has joined #dwbp 13:07:36 adler1 has joined #dwbp 13:08:09 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:08:09 DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has not yet started, MTCarrasco 13:08:11 On IRC I see adler1, phila, MTCarrasco, annette_g, laufer, antoine, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Caroline, RiccardoAlbertoni, BartvanLeeuwen, Zakim, RRSAgent, yaso_, deirdreee, 13:08:11 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot 13:08:13 BartvanLeeuwen, me too :-| 13:08:15 present+ PhilA 13:08:32 Makx has joined #dwbp 13:09:17 present+ annette_g 13:09:53 I'm not o webex also. I Dialed the number 13:09:59 present+ BernadetteLoscio 13:10:03 toll number 13:10:10 present+ laufer 13:10:19 zakim, who is here? 13:10:19 DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has not yet started, hadleybeeman 13:10:20 present+ yaso_ 13:10:21 On IRC I see Makx, adler1, phila, MTCarrasco, annette_g, laufer, antoine, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Caroline, RiccardoAlbertoni, BartvanLeeuwen, Zakim, RRSAgent, yaso_, deirdreee, 13:10:21 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot 13:10:26 present+ MTCarrasco 13:10:30 present+ Caroline 13:10:32 BartvanLeeuwen, no 13:10:33 trackbot, start meeting 13:10:35 RRSAgent, make logs 351 13:10:37 Zakim, this will be DWBP 13:10:37 ok, trackbot; I see DATA_DWBP()9:00AM scheduled to start 10 minutes ago 13:10:38 Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 13:10:38 Date: 19 June 2015 13:10:39 present+ adler1 13:10:44 zakim, who is here? 13:10:44 DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has not yet started, hadleybeeman 13:10:45 present+ newton 13:10:46 On IRC I see Makx, adler1, phila, MTCarrasco, annette_g, laufer, antoine, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Caroline, RiccardoAlbertoni, BartvanLeeuwen, Zakim, RRSAgent, yaso_, deirdreee, 13:10:46 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot 13:11:51 DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has now started 13:11:53 deirdreee: 641444 13:11:58 + +1.617.646.aaaa 13:12:00 zakim, who is here? 13:12:00 On the phone I see +1.617.646.aaaa 13:12:01 On IRC I see Makx, adler1, phila, MTCarrasco, annette_g, laufer, antoine, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Caroline, RiccardoAlbertoni, BartvanLeeuwen, Zakim, RRSAgent, yaso_, deirdreee, 13:12:01 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot 13:12:06 - +1.617.646.aaaa 13:12:08 DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has ended 13:12:08 Attendees were +1.617.646.aaaa 13:12:25 present+ hadleybeeman 13:12:29 zakim, who is here? 13:12:30 apparently DATA_DWBP()9:00AM has ended, hadleybeeman 13:12:31 On IRC I see Makx, adler1, phila, MTCarrasco, annette_g, laufer, antoine, BernadetteLoscio, newton, Caroline, RiccardoAlbertoni, BartvanLeeuwen, Zakim, RRSAgent, yaso_, deirdreee, 13:12:31 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, trackbot 13:13:11 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:13:13 hadleybeeman, it can be a protest 13:13:16 RRSAgent, draft minutes 13:13:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-dwbp-minutes.html phila 13:13:53 present+ deirdrelee 13:13:59 PeterWinstanley has joined #DWBP 13:14:15 scribe: hadleybeeman 13:14:17 PeterWinstanley +1 13:14:21 http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-06-12 13:14:30 PROPOSED: APPROVE last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-06-12 13:14:39 +1 13:14:44 +1 13:14:44 +1 13:14:44 +1 13:14:45 +1 13:14:52 +1 13:14:59 RESOLVED: APPROVE last week's minutes: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2015-06-12 13:14:59 +1 13:15:00 +0 (wasn't there) 13:15:11 giancarlo_guizzardi has joined #DWBP 13:15:13 +1 13:15:27 deirdreee: There was lots of good work on the mailing list this week. 13:15:34 topic: Next Face-to-face 13:15:44 deirdreee: Yaso suggested Sao Paolo 24-25 Sept. 13:15:46 suggested dates: São Paulo, Sept 24-25 13:16:12 hi 13:16:15 came back 13:16:21 s/Paolo/Paulo/ 13:16:27 yes i can hear you 13:16:35 yes but you cant hear me 13:16:38 Caroline, go ahead 13:17:03 I'm talking but you can't hear 13:17:07 fine phil 13:17:07 Caroline: Idea: have it at NIC.br in Sao Paolo. 13:17:24 Yes, thanks caroline :_) 13:17:27 ... Sept 24-25, a Thursday and a Friday. 13:17:30 s/Paolo/Paulo 13:17:40 ...Before that is the Web.BR conference. (Tues-Weds) 13:17:49 ...We're trying to get approval to bring someone. 13:18:03 ...We have a call for papers open. This might help people, especially those from universities. 13:18:25 ...Do send a proposal for a paper. It may make it easier for you to come. 13:18:35 ...Eric sent a message about it to the whole group. 13:18:44 ...I've also mentioned it to Christophe. 13:19:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-dwbp-minutes.html phila 13:19:05 q? 13:19:14 ...This may help to get your travel expenses approved for the face-to-face. 13:19:17 Chair: Deirdre 13:19:36 SumitPurohit has joined #DWBP 13:19:36 ...Most of the conference participatns are Brazilian, but we will have translation into English. 13:19:41 Regrets+ Eric S, Ghislain A, 13:19:43 ...We have ~400 people attend. 13:19:46 the email that i sent https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jun/0078.html 13:20:07 Web.br http://conferenciaweb.w3c.br/ 13:20:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-dwbp-minutes.html phila 13:20:16 ...I put the website in — it's in Portuguese now, but it may be translated into English. 13:20:18 deirdreee: 13:20:41 ... I presume all Brazilian members will be able to get there. For others, will we have an alternative? 13:20:55 ... Ideally, as many people as possible would go to Brazill. 13:20:58 -1 13:21:02 I will try 13:21:04 I could make it but it is tight for me as I also have a conference in Africa in early September 13:21:06 -1 13:21:09 ...Is it feasible for you all to travel to Brazil? If you don't say no, I'll assume you can go. 13:21:17 might be -1 13:21:19 -1 13:21:22 quick check: it's already almost 800 euros for the flight :-( 13:21:22 I can travel to Brazil but those dates are not ideal 13:21:27 -1 13:21:32 -1 13:21:45 ...It seems like the Europeans can't travel there, and I'm guessing don't have funds. 13:21:45 I would suggest that we count how many are able to get here in september 13:21:53 I have to be in Brazil in November for the Internet Governance Forum 13:21:57 +1 to yaso's suggestion 13:21:57 ....So should we have an alternative European meeting? 13:22:03 ...Where? 13:22:26 Amsterdam? London? 13:22:30 What facilities do we need for a meeting? 13:22:30 q+ 13:22:33 I personally feel a Brazil meeting would be the best 13:22:36 VU is Amsterdam 13:22:44 phila, deirdreee I think that we should count how many can came 1st 13:22:51 (Christophe & Antoine may be able to help) 13:23:03 deirdreee: We need a physical space to host the right number (~10, for Europeans), with good wifi facilities for Webex and skype 13:23:06 +q 13:23:12 q= 13:23:16 q+ 13:23:17 ack antoine 13:23:17 q? 13:23:20 antoine: 13:23:21 q= 13:23:21 ack antoine 13:23:24 q? 13:23:32 q+ 13:23:43 antoine: Christophe and I already discussed this. We may be able to do something with the university. 13:23:44 q+ 13:23:45 q+ 13:23:56 ... We are both busy, so we can't check for the next two weeks 13:24:19 deirdreee: We can put it as a possible destination? The Free University Amsterdam? 13:24:30 ack Caroline 13:25:07 Caroline: +1 to Yaso_. It'd be nice to know how many people would come. We are proposing to do it here because so many brazilians went to Austin, which was a big effort for us. 13:25:32 ... it'd be nice to know how many would try to come, or would try to submit a paper to the conference. 13:25:41 ...Or why they can't? (Funds, or the dates?) 13:25:46 The Tenth Annual IGF Meeting is scheduled to take place in João Pessoa, Brazil, on 10-13 November 2015. 13:25:59 ... It would be nice to have everyone in one place 13:26:20 ...We can check to see if we might fund people who speak at the conference. 13:26:27 I would definitely come 13:26:28 http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ 13:26:39 deirdreee: Funding is a big issue for most of us. That would be one of the main barriers. 13:26:48 q? 13:26:52 ...Funding might be an opportunity 13:26:55 ack adler 13:27:11 +1 to deirdreee 13:27:29 adler1: I would love to have the event in Brazil. The dates aren't perfect for me, but none will be. 13:27:38 ...It would be good to lock in dates. 13:27:55 ...If Europe on those dates, I can accommodate that — but I think we owe the Brazillians. 13:28:15 ...If not, IBM can host in London. Or we might have a facility in Amsterdam 13:28:20 ... but my first choice would be Brazil. 13:28:24 +1 to steve 13:28:26 ack yaso_ 13:28:58 I can't make TPAC 13:29:09 yaso_: we should work with these dates, since many of us are going to TPAC. We could get a room at TPAC, but if it wasn't going to be in Brazil, I think it should be TPAC. 13:29:17 -1 to TPAC 13:29:28 ...I agree with Steve — the Brazilians in our group travel often and far. 13:29:37 No funds for TPAC also :-( 13:29:49 +1 yaso 13:29:54 ...Not good for the group to have another big meeting in Europe. 13:30:04 q? 13:30:19 ...For me, it's Japan at TPAC, or Brazil. It's not good to have a meeting in Europe, or the USA. 13:30:37 ...We are talking about 9 or 10 in Europe, and 9 in Brazil. It's the group splitting. 13:30:56 IGF would be an ideal audience for our meeting 13:30:57 ...Face-to-faces are there so we can meet face-to-face. 13:31:04 +1 to yaso_ 13:31:08 and have any of you seen photos of that city? 13:31:08 +1 yaso_ 13:31:29 q+ 13:31:31 +1 13:31:32 yaso_: Maybe we should move to discussing the BP now, and leave the f2f to be decided by email? 13:32:19 deirdreee: Yaso_ +1. I agree, that would be best. But if organisations won't pay... it's the practical problem. This might be a bigger issue for W3C membership. 13:32:20 AirChina does returns from Madrid to SaoPaolo direct for £351 13:32:31 http://www.skyscanner.net/transport/flights/mad/saoa/150920/150927/airfares-from-madrid-to-sao-paulo-in-september-2015.html?rtn=1 13:32:33 ... I think it's a wider issue than just for our group. 13:32:40 +1 deirdreee 13:32:56 I propose that we begin to think about organizing our meetings with a wider audience in mind to influence others and to be influenced by others 13:33:10 SumitPurohit: Thanks to yaso_ and Caroline for organising this conference. 13:33:34 ...The most overlapping timezone, we should pick that city. Last time, we stretched it as much as possible. 13:33:40 +1 to deirdreee 13:33:51 ...Other than a good place to host us, another priority should be somewhere that provides us the most working hours together. 13:33:55 ack SumitPurohit 13:33:56 q? 13:34:03 ack phil 13:34:32 phila: Most MIT staff can't travel beyond the Boston area; W3C is facing similar challenges. We understand this. 13:34:50 ...The question is if we have a European meeting — might be better than no meeting at all? 13:34:59 ...Last time, even Lisbon was too far for most people. 13:35:14 ...If there is a meeting in Europe, and there is a meeting in Brazil (which i agree completely we should do), 13:35:24 q? 13:35:25 ...then I'll have a hard time justifying the expense of going to Brazil. 13:35:31 ack adler 13:35:52 adler1: I think we should go to Brazil, and have everyone be there or participate remotely. 13:36:15 ...But I think we out it to our Brazilian colleagues who have travelled so much in the past, to support them. It's the right thing to do. 13:36:27 deirdreee: Let's take that to email. 13:36:40 topic: Next working draft of the BP document 13:37:08 BernadetteLoscio: We made some changes in the doc, in the content section 13:37:16 ... About versioning. 13:37:22 latest bp draft: http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html 13:37:26 Makx has joined #dwbp 13:37:27 ...I kept the section about context. We can improve it later 13:37:43 ...The diagram of dataset versioning and distributions are in the versioning section. 13:37:50 present+ 13:38:09 ...We sent a message to the commenters to confirm their comments had been addressed. 13:38:11 No open comments: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/68239/WD-dwbp-20150224/ 13:38:17 ...They said it's okay to move on. I've closed the comments. 13:38:18 q? 13:38:25 ...So I think we're all set now. 13:39:01 deirdreee: Great 13:39:11 Congrats on being able to say "we don't have any open comments" - that's excellent work 13:39:24 ... A couple of comments on the mailing list. Any one want to discuss any of them? 13:39:27 q+ 13:39:41 BernadetteLoscio: I just read Annette's detailed message. It came in too late for me. 13:39:46 ...I haven't answered yet. 13:39:59 -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html Latest version of the BP editor's draft 13:40:00 ...Max also replied about versioning. I'm happy about this discussion 13:40:22 s/Max/Maxk 13:40:39 s/maxk/makx 13:40:40 ...As Makx said, we first need to understand what versioning means for us 13:40:47 ack annette_g 13:41:08 annette_g: There were a few items I thought we should consider before publishing 13:41:24 ...The versioning chart. The data identification section. The text doesn't agree with the actual BP there. 13:41:27 +1 annette 13:41:37 ...The data up-to-date one needed some attention too 13:41:49 q+ 13:42:09 ...I feel a bit hurried to release it now, publish as it is. The newer stuff feels rushed. 13:42:24 deirdreee: Generally, it's still okay to have rushness, because they're still working drafts. 13:42:34 s/rushness/roughness 13:43:00 deirdreee: Last week we decided it's good to get things out there anyway, to provoke further discussion and work towards some answers 13:43:19 annette_g: That's good. I think we need more discussion. Though I'm not sure some of it may not be productive discussion 13:43:24 q+ 13:43:30 ... like how to implement REST 13:43:39 ...Not sure we should cover it 13:43:47 ack me 13:43:48 deirdreee: We'll vote today anyway, and see how it goes 13:44:08 phila: It is a fine line. In terms of being rushed, that's coming from me. Last publication of this was in February. 13:44:16 +1 13:44:20 +1 13:44:31 ...The current state is significantly better than the FPWD. Of course there are still things open. Still work left to do. 13:44:41 -q 13:44:42 ...But it's a question of showing progress. That's what publishing would do. 13:44:45 +1 to phila 13:44:56 ...But if you see an error, or don't want to put your name to it, then vote against it. 13:45:08 q? 13:45:24 ...Do you think the current version shows progress? Does that outweigh concerns about roughness? it is a balance. 13:45:30 ...Personally, I think we should get it out there 13:45:37 deirdreee: Time for a vote 13:45:40 o/ 13:45:51 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html 13:45:58 PROPOSED: To publish http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html as a new Public Working Draft 13:46:00 +1 13:46:00 +1 13:46:06 +1 13:46:06 -1 13:46:11 +1 13:46:12 +1 13:46:14 +1 13:46:15 +1 13:46:16 +1 13:46:17 +1 13:46:18 +1 13:46:19 +1 13:46:19 +1 13:46:35 q+ 13:46:41 ack phil 13:46:44 +1 13:46:47 +1 13:47:00 phila: annette_g, how strongly do you feel? Would you be prepared to allow us to flag your issues, put them in the document? 13:47:11 +q 13:47:16 ...Would you be happy if we added your specific concerns? Would that be sufficient to allow it to go forward? 13:47:25 annette_g: Yes, that would be great. 13:47:39 rollback 13:47:55 q+ 13:47:59 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jun/0087.html 13:48:03 ack BernadetteLoscio 13:48:23 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jun/0087.html Annette's e-mail 13:48:33 -1 to more discussion delaying pub by another week 13:48:39 +1 BernadetteLoscio 13:48:43 BernadetteLoscio: We could delay another week to resolve this. 13:48:53 I think we can include an issue with the comments of makx about version and distribution... 13:48:56 thanks 13:48:59 OK :-) 13:49:03 to put as issues annette_g's points 13:49:03 s/we could delay another week/we could publish this version and move forward with a longer discussion 13:49:07 q? 13:49:27 great ;) 13:49:31 annette_g: Many more issues on that list from my email than I feel would block publication. I think we only need to mark the ones with an asterix 13:49:31 :))) 13:49:43 q+ 13:49:44 PROPOSED: that the editors are asked to insert specific issues raised with an asterix by annette_g in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jun/0087.html, and to publish http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html as a new Public Working Draft 13:49:48 q- 13:49:51 ack anne 13:49:58 +1 13:49:59 +1 13:49:59 +1 13:50:00 +1 13:50:00 +1 13:50:00 +1 13:50:01 +1 13:50:03 +1 13:50:03 +1 13:50:04 +1 13:50:05 +1 13:50:06 +1 13:50:07 +1 13:50:08 +1 13:50:11 +1 13:50:11 +1 13:50:15 +1 13:50:22 RESOLVED: that the editors are asked to insert specific issues raised by annette_g in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2015Jun/0087.html, and to publish http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html as a new Public Working Draft 13:50:24 :):):):) 13:50:32 congrats 13:50:35 q+ 13:50:39 :) !! 13:50:45 Congrats, Bernadette, Newton and Caroline! 13:50:55 deirdreee: That leaves us with the next pwd of the BP and the FPWD of the vocabularies that we voted a few weeks ago... phila, what's next? 13:50:57 Thanks laufer! 13:51:13 phila: It's with me. There is a new process coming to go from GitHub straight to our publication process, but it's not ready. 13:51:23 ...BernadetteLoscio, when you've added those issues in, tell me. 13:51:24 Thanks laufer 13:51:39 ...We can publish them for Thursday 13:51:52 ...BernadetteLoscio and Newton: I'm working on an SVG version of your diagram 13:52:03 ...It should be included in your diagram. 13:52:06 q- 13:52:22 BernadetteLoscio: Great! I tried to do that, but didn't get there. 13:52:29 phila: I used notepad 13:52:37 BernadetteLoscio: I tried to do it on Google Drive 13:52:59 (actually, PS Pad, but you get the idea) 13:52:59 wouldn't it be way faster and easier to do an SVG with a vector drawing program? 13:53:08 phila: I need the publishable versions of all the documents by the end of Monday, to publish them on Thursday. 13:53:09 tweeted 13:53:11 Welcome Webex! Thank you Zakim! 13:53:15 Yes, but my code is better :-) Annette 13:53:17 thanks Deirdre!!! 13:53:29 topic: wrapping up 13:53:46 deirdreee: Next week, we will work on the next big issue. Are we going to extend DCAT? 13:54:15 ... versioning, time series, all of those issues deeply -- will that commit us to a new vocabulary? Do we have the resources to do that? Or is that for another working group? 13:54:42 q? 13:54:48 ...Other than that, we can go back to alternating between the documents: Data Usage next week, then Data Quality, then back to BP 13:54:56 as antoine said... the D*V collection 13:55:02 q+ to suggest a deadline to decide about the d2d 13:55:04 deirdreee: [closing the call] 13:55:08 s/d2d/f2f 13:55:10 ack c 13:55:10 Caroline, you wanted to suggest a deadline to decide about the d2d 13:55:38 +1 for deciding early 13:55:38 Caroline: I suggest we set a deadline to decide about the f2f. This week? 13:55:53 ...It would be important to decide by the end of next week, so we can make arrangements. For this and the conference too. 13:55:59 +1 to decide until Friday 13:56:01 phila: for the DQV the github version is the definitive one. We've done all editorial changes we wanted to do last time we discussed the draft, two weeks ago. 13:56:17 deirdreee: Okay, Caroline. Would it help to add a "what do you think" table in the wiki? 13:56:20