13:57:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wpay
13:57:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-wpay-irc
13:58:28 <manu> Meeting: Web Payments IG Payment Architecture Task Force (Thursday)
13:58:29 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:58:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-wpay-minutes.html manu
13:59:30 <manu> zakim, this will be wpay
13:59:30 <Zakim> ok, manu, I see T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_USE)10:00AM already started
13:59:38 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
13:59:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1
13:59:58 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
13:59:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1
14:00:02 <manu> zakim, code?
14:00:02 <Zakim> the conference code is 9729 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), manu
14:00:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:00:26 <AdrianHB> zakim, ??P1 is me
14:00:26 <Zakim> +AdrianHB; got it
14:00:29 <manu> zakim, I am ??IPcaller
14:00:29 <Zakim> sorry, manu, I do not see a party named '??IPcaller'
14:00:33 <manu> zakim, I am IPcaller
14:00:33 <Zakim> ok, manu, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
14:00:40 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
14:00:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdrianHB, [IPcaller]
14:00:49 <manu> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:00:49 <Zakim> +manu; got it
14:00:53 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
14:00:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdrianHB, manu
14:02:55 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
14:03:06 <Ian> zakim, call Ian-Office
14:03:06 <Zakim> ok, Ian; the call is being made
14:03:07 <Zakim> +Ian
14:03:24 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #wpay
14:04:09 <manu> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Jun/0043.html
14:04:16 <manu> scribe: AdrianHB
14:04:59 <AdrianHB> manu: any additions?
14:05:49 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wpay
14:05:52 <manu> Topic: Roadmap Updates
14:05:53 <AdrianHB> manu: suggest we do roadmap first
14:05:57 <manu> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Roadmap
14:06:32 <AdrianHB> ian: current sense I have going into f2f is: what we are talking about now goes in 4 new groups
14:06:42 <manu> q+ to ask about Signatures WG, six groups, etc.
14:06:50 <AdrianHB> ian: waiting for settlement presentation to confirm
14:07:24 <AdrianHB> ian: in jeff's preso there is also a question about signatures (although more key management)
14:07:55 <AdrianHB> ian: roadmap says the Ig will continue to add use cases and reqs and reach out to larger community
14:08:04 <AdrianHB> ian: vision lives with the IG
14:08:15 <AdrianHB> ian: lots to do there
14:09:04 <manu> q+ to say that the "expanded list" is helpful /if people ask for it/
14:09:05 <AdrianHB> ian: Web Payments WG - i have shrunk capabilities doc to use as working doc for f2f
14:09:31 <AdrianHB> ian: @@ is not in there but can be added in respec version
14:10:01 <AdrianHB> ian: credentials wg - manu and i have worked on a good presentation for that
14:10:11 <manu> ack manu
14:10:11 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about Signatures WG, six groups, etc. and to say that the "expanded list" is helpful /if people ask for it/
14:10:13 <Ian> s/@@/capabilities
14:10:14 <AdrianHB> settlement - down to adrian preso
14:10:33 <AdrianHB> manu: the current roadmap has a blindspot around key man and sigs
14:10:40 <Ian> +1 to adding mention of key management
14:10:50 <AdrianHB> manu: i don't think there is anther wg at w3c that can pick that up
14:11:02 <Ian> q_
14:11:03 <Ian> q+
14:11:10 <AdrianHB> manu: key man and linked data sigs need to be discussed at f2f
14:11:34 <manu> q+ to say that the "expanded list" is helpful /if people ask for it/
14:11:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:11:37 <AdrianHB> manu: linked data related work can be done in linked data wg
14:11:59 <AdrianHB> ian: jeff will be raising the question of a standard for dig sigs etc in his preso at round table
14:12:01 <Zakim> +??P9
14:12:06 <ShaneM> zakim, ??P9 is ShaneM
14:12:06 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
14:12:20 <AdrianHB> ian: note that in the charter there is a now a concrete req for JSON-LD canonicalisation
14:12:40 <AdrianHB> ian: i do want to dig into why we need it lets discuss at f2f
14:12:46 <Ian> s/canonicalization//
14:12:57 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
14:12:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdrianHB, manu, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Ian, [IPcaller], ShaneM
14:13:20 <manu> zakim, disconnect IPcaller
14:13:20 <Zakim> [IPcaller] is being disconnected
14:13:21 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:13:26 <manu> ack manu
14:13:26 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to say that the "expanded list" is helpful /if people ask for it/
14:13:30 <ChaoDuan> ChaoDuan has joined #wpay
14:13:52 <AdrianHB> manu: like the focus of the roadmap
14:14:08 <AdrianHB> ... may want to also show the prioritisation wiki
14:14:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:14:34 <AdrianHB> ian: for digestability I suggest a chart or something visual
14:14:49 <manu> zakim, IPcaller is ChaoDuan
14:14:49 <Zakim> +ChaoDuan; got it
14:15:07 <AdrianHB> ... if not lets move the bits from the prioritization wiki over to the roadmap
14:15:43 <AdrianHB> manu: having info is [lost audio]
14:16:03 <AdrianHB> ian: i like the mapping back to use cases in the priorities
14:16:15 <AdrianHB> ... will try to fold into roadmap
14:16:27 <AdrianHB> manu: anything further?
14:16:28 <manu> Topic: Payment Architecture WG Proposal
14:16:28 <manu> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Roadmap/PaymentArchitectureWG
14:17:00 <AdrianHB> ian: most NB is scope
14:17:21 <AdrianHB> ... started with basic description from discussions around payment agent integration
14:17:35 <AdrianHB> ... wrestled with folding in capabilities
14:17:55 <AdrianHB> ... realised goals are most NB thing to get consensus
14:18:08 <manu> q+ to talk to deliverables - I think we need more
14:18:12 <manu> ack Ian
14:18:16 <AdrianHB> ... kept it high level enough to not specify actual deliverables
14:18:36 <AdrianHB> ... then added deliverables with help from Wendy Seltzer
14:19:02 <ShaneM_> ShaneM_ has joined #wpay
14:19:05 <AdrianHB> ... started with a need to capture vocabs then apis then protocols
14:19:17 <AdrianHB> ... then took a stab at milestones
14:19:19 <AdrianHB> ...
14:19:41 <manu> q+ to say that browser integration /should not/ be in the critical path.
14:19:43 <AdrianHB> ... vocabs seems easier to do based on workdone already
14:19:55 <AdrianHB> ... browser related stuff will likely take longer
14:19:57 <manu> ack manu
14:19:57 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to talk to deliverables - I think we need more and to say that browser integration /should not/ be in the critical path.
14:20:15 <AdrianHB> manu: i think we need more deliverables
14:20:28 <AdrianHB> ... lot of the tech is already in a first draft from the CG
14:21:02 <AdrianHB> ... browser APIs need to be there but REST apis are new to W3C
14:21:15 <AdrianHB> this is the client server protocol
14:21:36 <AdrianHB> ... in the CG we have a lot of vocabularies already
14:21:52 <AdrianHB> ... we also have a browser API that was done with Mozilla a long time ago
14:22:12 <AdrianHB> ... then there is the protocol spec, the Web Commerce Spec
14:22:27 <AdrianHB> .. do we want those in yet or just notes and questions?
14:22:56 <AdrianHB> ... while we should spec out a browser API we def don't want the browser vendors in the critical path for v1
14:23:16 <AdrianHB> ... we can use polyfills for now
14:23:52 <AdrianHB> ... we also don't want banks in the ciritical path (also take a long time to move on large tech changes)
14:24:07 <AdrianHB> ... not sure there is sufficient incentives for banks (maybe for retailers)
14:24:50 <AdrianHB> ian: i don't think I have explicitly put anyone in critical path
14:25:27 <AdrianHB> manu: we need people to understand that even though we want to deliver a browser API they are not in the critical path
14:25:56 <AdrianHB> manu: for some technology that is unavoidable - like credentials
14:26:16 <AdrianHB> manu: (credential issuers are in critical path)
14:26:41 <AdrianHB> manu: need to id the industries that are in the c path and then make sure we have some implementors lined up
14:27:13 <AdrianHB> ian: let's put those ques in the deployment discussion agenda
14:27:32 <AdrianHB> manu: decisions we make on deliverables pull people into or out of critical path
14:28:17 <AdrianHB> ian: need to discuss (after establishign arch goals) who we are putting in c path
14:29:00 <AdrianHB> manu: do we want rec track deliverables added before f2f?
14:29:05 <AdrianHB> ian: what would you add?
14:29:16 <AdrianHB> manu: split apis into browser and REST
14:29:29 <AdrianHB> manu: split vocab into a few vocabs
14:29:54 <AdrianHB> manu: is it premature to have JSON-LD in there? need to still decide on data model (tree vs graph)
14:30:44 <AdrianHB> ian: let's discuss offline
14:31:03 <AdrianHB> manu: any other comments?
14:31:14 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
14:31:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see AdrianHB, manu, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Ian, ShaneM, ChaoDuan
14:31:35 <manu> AdrianHB: No particular input yet - essentially the settlement stuff I've been looking at would fall into its own group.
14:31:52 <manu> AdrianHB: Based on capabilities and presentation, I think it might be something that could stand on its own.
14:32:27 <manu> AdrianHB: I don't think Settlement is going to be a v1 deliverable - version 1 payments stuff can survive w/o settlement advances. We may get it done quickly, we may not - not a dependency for v1.
14:32:38 <Ryladog> +1
14:33:00 <manu> AdrianHB: I'd like to do settlement sooner than later, let's put ideas in front of the group to see what they think.
14:33:18 <manu> Topic: Capabilities Presentation
14:33:21 <manu> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/Capabilities
14:34:03 <AdrianHB> manu: pat and I discussed preso. it's geared toward getting consensus on the organisation of the doc
14:34:35 <AdrianHB> manu: looking to get agreement that the categories make sense and also get the group up to speed on what has been done
14:35:01 <AdrianHB> manu: what are the capabilities? What to do next and what to do after? Discuss roles
14:35:10 <AdrianHB> ... interactions of roles
14:35:32 <AdrianHB> ... do the groupings makes sense, anything to add/change?
14:36:01 <AdrianHB> ... avoiding details as this will be a first look for a lot of people
14:36:29 <AdrianHB> ... Was going to propose that we show what details might look like for a select set of capabilities
14:36:45 <AdrianHB> Ryladog: Will we not show the doc?
14:37:01 <AdrianHB> manu: We will but it doesn't have too much detail
14:37:12 <Ryladog> Agree to show a sample
14:37:14 <AdrianHB> Ryladog: +1 to some examples
14:37:37 <AdrianHB> manu: need to decide the mechanics of how we'll work on this doc
14:37:47 <AdrianHB> ian: wiki?
14:38:11 <AdrianHB> manu: looks terrible and moving to respec is going to take ages
14:38:32 <AdrianHB> ryladog: suggestions: 1 save to PC and work on static html
14:38:46 <AdrianHB> ... 2) put in Word doc or similar and work on that
14:39:10 <AdrianHB> manu: will take an offline snapshot on Friday
14:40:18 <manu> AdrianHB: What are the specific mechanics for how we do this.
14:41:26 <AdrianHB> manu: we won't edit the doc directly, we will have high level discussion and capture in wiki
14:41:42 <manu> Topic: Use Cases Presentation
14:41:50 <manu> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015/UseCases
14:42:07 <AdrianHB> manu: we may not need the full hour
14:42:41 <Ian> q+
14:42:42 <AdrianHB> manu: we will be talking capabilities before use cases
14:42:58 <AdrianHB> ... use case session is about prioritisation
14:43:20 <AdrianHB> ... determine what use cases we care about for v1
14:43:49 <AdrianHB> ... ensure everyone understands we are not going for 100% coverage in v1
14:43:59 <Ian> q+
14:44:03 <AdrianHB> ... also need to note that there are missing uses cases
14:44:24 <AdrianHB> ... diminishing returns on use cases as we are pretty clear on the req for v1
14:44:51 <manu> ack Ian
14:44:55 <Ryladog> q+
14:45:23 <AdrianHB> ian: 1 - got a preso today from leandro who wants to share the boleto (sp?) use case, do we have time for this?
14:46:06 <AdrianHB> manu: I want to. Not sure it will change anything ito v1
14:46:27 <AdrianHB> ian: it will sit in the "after v1" stuff discussion
14:46:44 <AdrianHB> manu: let's keep it short (5 mins) and then there shouldn't be a problem
14:47:06 <AdrianHB> ian: I want to focus on use cases from W3C IG participants
14:47:14 <ShaneM_> +1
14:47:24 <AdrianHB> ian: we will consider others but those from the group should get priority
14:47:28 <AdrianHB> +1
14:47:39 <Ian> +1 to closing the loop
14:47:53 <AdrianHB> manu: I see this as mostly about closing the loop on the use cases, is that a good goal?
14:48:02 <AdrianHB> ian: yes
14:48:33 <AdrianHB> ian: getting consensus and then inviting more conversation on day 3
14:48:48 <AdrianHB> ... there are enough new people that it's worth spending time on this
14:49:16 <AdrianHB> ... also ensuring that the message is clear around not being in v1 does not mean out of scope
14:49:55 <AdrianHB> manu: we are looking at debit pull payments in v1 because it's not common to do push today
14:50:13 <Ian> q+
14:50:20 <manu> ack Ryladog
14:50:27 <AdrianHB> manu: there aren't appropriate use cases for push
14:50:32 <AdrianHB> manu: suggest we discuss
14:50:42 <AdrianHB> ryladog: +1 for discussion
14:50:56 <AdrianHB> ryladog: are we getting Gates Foundation reps?
14:51:04 <AdrianHB> manu: yes, only at round table
14:51:29 <AdrianHB> ryladog: great because having their use cases on the agenda makes them feel that their involvement is important
14:52:44 <AdrianHB> ian: +1 but let's not give the impression that we will def be adding gates foundation use cases to our document
14:53:45 <AdrianHB> manu: changing wording on F2F collatoral to reflect that
14:54:03 <AdrianHB> ian: like the goal of closing the loop and getting group up to speed
14:54:29 <AdrianHB> ... next goal is to discuss the fact that we can still process new use cases
14:54:52 <AdrianHB> ... third goal is to look at how our use cases compare with other uses cases from external orgs
14:55:56 <AdrianHB> ... part of the meeting theme is: do we have the right set and priority of work?
14:56:23 <AdrianHB> ... fourth goal is to assist participanst to submit new use cases in future
14:56:46 <AdrianHB> s/participanst/participants/
14:57:19 <AdrianHB> manu: I also want to go over the payment agent arch priorities doc
14:57:28 <AdrianHB> ... this gives a view of what is to come
14:57:32 <Ryladog> q+
14:57:55 <AdrianHB> [manu talks through doc]
14:58:37 <manu> AdrianHB: Yes, today the payment flow is completely ignorant of settlement.
14:58:47 <manu> AdrianHB: In version 1, we're optimizing payments that already exist.
14:59:06 <manu> AdrianHB: The Settlement stuff may be parallel to version 2 - priority will come from how many people are ready to participate.
14:59:41 <AdrianHB> ryladog: have national payment assoc of india joined?
14:59:45 <manu> ack Ian
14:59:53 <AdrianHB> ian: they have and etherium but haven't really participated
15:00:14 <manu> ack Ryladog
15:01:20 <AdrianHB> manu: priorities doc isn't completely in alignment with capabilities doc so hope we don't cause confusion
15:01:45 <AdrianHB> ... last call tomorrow, please give thoughts to agenda
15:01:53 <Ian> http://www.w3.org/Payments/
15:02:34 <Zakim> -ShaneM
15:02:48 <Ian> +1 I will do an update
15:03:00 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:04:50 <Zakim> -manu
15:04:53 <Zakim> -Ian
15:04:54 <Zakim> -AdrianHB
15:05:00 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-wpay-minutes.html manu
15:05:03 <Zakim> -ChaoDuan
15:05:04 <Zakim> T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_USE)10:00AM has ended
15:05:04 <Zakim> Attendees were AdrianHB, manu, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Ian, ShaneM, ChaoDuan
15:05:38 <manu> Present: Manu, Adrian, Ian, Shane, Katie, ChaoDuan
15:05:40 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-wpay-minutes.html manu
15:05:47 <manu> rrsagent, make logs public
15:05:57 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-wpay-minutes.html manu
15:06:11 <chaals> chaals has joined #wpay
15:06:11 <manu> Chair: Manu
15:06:14 <manu> Regrets: Pat
15:06:49 <manu> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-wpay-minutes.html manu
15:16:39 <schuki> schuki has joined #wpay
15:25:29 <chaals> chaals has joined #wpay