16:57:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
16:57:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/02-social-irc
16:57:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> elf-pavlik: what was that about curl?
16:57:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:57:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social
16:57:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
16:57:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
16:57:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
16:57:28 <trackbot> Date: 02 June 2015
16:58:03 <melvster1> elf-pavlik: FWIW I agree with that link
16:58:22 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
16:58:27 <Zakim> T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started
16:58:33 <Zakim> +Arnaud
16:58:52 <Zakim> + +1.401.305.aaaa
16:58:59 <elf-pavlik> rhiaro++ csarven++
16:59:02 <Loqi> rhiaro has 104 karma
16:59:02 <ben_thatmustbeme> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:59:02 <Zakim> +ben_thatmustbeme; got it
16:59:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:59:46 <Zakim> +Wendy
16:59:55 <Zakim> +aaronpk
17:00:01 <Zakim> + +1.773.614.aabb
17:00:02 <Loqi> Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84365&oldid=84362
17:00:11 <ben_thatmustbeme> Zakim, mute me
17:00:11 <Zakim> ben_thatmustbeme should now be muted
17:00:14 <cwebber2> hi *
17:00:19 <Zakim> +??P6
17:00:21 <tantek> Zakim, ??p6 is me
17:00:21 <Zakim> +tantek; got it
17:00:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> mute myself before the babies start screaming
17:00:32 <Zakim> + +1.514.554.aacc
17:00:37 <elf-pavlik> babies++
17:00:38 <tantek> zakim, mute me
17:00:38 <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
17:00:39 <evanpro> Zakim, aacc is me
17:00:40 <Loqi> babies has 5 karma
17:00:40 <Zakim> +evanpro; got it
17:00:48 <Loqi> evanpro: aaronpk left you a message on 4/20 at 7:18pm: oh no I found a broken link on your site! https://e14n.com/2010/07/21/federated-social-web-summit-wrapup http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-04-20/line/1429582692056
17:01:02 <Zakim> +dromasca
17:01:10 <evanpro> aaronpk: thanks!
17:01:20 <cwebber2> that's me
17:01:27 <cwebber2> Zakim, +aabb is me
17:01:27 <Zakim> sorry, cwebber2, I do not recognize a party named '+aabb'
17:01:32 <cwebber2> Zakim, aabb is me
17:01:32 <Zakim> +cwebber2; got it
17:01:40 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
17:01:56 <cwebber2> thx for keeping me on top of things wseltzer
17:02:09 <wseltzer> regrets+ harry, sandro, jasnell
17:02:11 <Zakim> +??P9
17:02:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:02:26 <wilkie> Zakim, IPcaller is me
17:02:26 <Zakim> +wilkie; got it
17:02:51 <Zakim> +Ann
17:03:00 <bblfish_> bblfish_ has joined #social
17:03:01 <elf-pavlik> I can scribe
17:03:03 <evanpro> I can scribe this time
17:03:12 <evanpro> Two volunteers!
17:03:12 <wilkie> :)
17:03:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> I'll try scribing
17:03:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> sure
17:03:26 <dromasca> dromasca has joined #social
17:03:36 <wseltzer> scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
17:03:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> scribe: ben_thatmustbeme
17:03:52 <tantek> ben_thatmustbeme, as scribe you have ultimate power to stop the meeting :)
17:04:00 <cwebber2> o/
17:04:09 <wilkie> rhiaro: um. yes. haha
17:04:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: minutes from previous minutes
17:04:26 <AdamB> AdamB has joined #social
17:04:30 <wilkie> oh, maybe I should have drafted the minutes on the wiki
17:04:36 <wilkie> sorry
17:04:36 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: minutes of last meeting were missing but have just been added
17:04:46 <AnnB> +1
17:04:50 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Approve 26 May telecon https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-26-minutes
17:04:51 <tantek> +1 looks good
17:04:52 <cwebber2> +1
17:04:53 <aaronpk> +1
17:04:54 <elf-pavlik> +1
17:04:56 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... proposes to approve minutes of may 26th
17:05:06 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Approve 26 May telecon https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-26-minutes
17:05:06 <evanpro> +1
17:05:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... Hering no objections
17:05:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> s/Hering/Hearing
17:05:28 <Zakim> + +1.314.777.aadd
17:05:40 <Zakim> +bblfish
17:05:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> Topic: Zakim being decomissioned
17:05:47 <tantek> Topic: Switch to WebEx Coming up
17:05:52 <aaronpk> countdown to Zakim end of life http://www.w3.org/2015/07/zakim.html
17:05:55 <tantek> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-06-02#Switch_to_WebEx_Coming_up
17:06:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: W3c is switching to WebEx and Zakim is being decomissioned.  All working groups will have to switch off.
17:06:44 <AnnB> W3C looking into WebRTC options, I think
17:06:48 <AnnB> future tho
17:07:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> ...  Audio part of the calls will use webex, at least for the forseeable future.  W3C is investigating alternatives. but for now we will be using WebEx.
17:07:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... By the end of the month we will have to switch over
17:07:30 <AdamB> Zakim, aadd is AdamB
17:07:30 <Zakim> +AdamB; got it
17:07:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... This is dependant on team contact to get the reservation set up.  Some people may find it better.  Some prefer the webex client sound quality / experience, etc.
17:08:07 <wseltzer> -> https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices WebEx Best Practices notes
17:08:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... The biggest loss is that there is no integration with any bots that we have.  We can still use Zakim for queue and trackbot, etc, but lose the ability to mute
17:08:42 <Guest83> Guest83 has joined #social
17:08:46 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... Most annoying is you do not have a list of participants.
17:09:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... some linux systems have issues, etc.  review link posted by wseltzer in chat.
17:09:45 <wseltzer> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2015AprJun/0039.html W3C email to chairs
17:09:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... We will follow up with team contact as to setting up reservation.  Another annoying part is the conference code will change every week.
17:10:01 <Loqi> Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-06-02]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=84366&oldid=84365
17:10:03 <wseltzer> q+
17:10:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> AnnB: Thats surprising, we use webex and have a standard code
17:10:12 <Arnaud> ack wseltzer
17:10:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: may be just lack of knowledge in setting it up thus far.
17:10:31 <Zakim> +??P14
17:10:33 <cwebber2> so wait, will there be a SIP option?
17:10:34 <tsyesika_> Zakim, ??P14 is me
17:10:34 <Zakim> +tsyesika_; got it
17:10:37 <tsyesika_> Zakim, mute me
17:10:37 <Zakim> tsyesika_ should now be muted
17:10:45 <cwebber2> will this require installing proprietary software?
17:10:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> wseltzer: W3C is still working with WebEx team and says that recurring meetings should be able to use the same code.
17:11:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> AnnB: I have a standing meeting but I never schedule it, but it gives the ability to use the same code all the time.
17:11:27 <wseltzer> q-
17:11:47 <AnnB> I use "my" code for when I want to schedule random meetings
17:11:52 <cwebber2> q+
17:12:11 <Arnaud> ack cwebber2
17:12:15 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: in any case, this is a heads up.  we are nearing the deadline.  We are free to switch whenever we are ready.  Some WG have already switched.
17:12:16 <Arnaud> ack cwebber
17:12:25 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber2: will there be a phone line or SIP option?
17:12:41 <cwebber2> ok thanks
17:12:44 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: you can call either way.  The client is fairly straight forward too.  Client can even call you
17:12:55 <cwebber2> I try to avoid installing any proprietary software
17:13:08 <cwebber2> so it could be pretty problematic for me if that's the only way to participate
17:13:20 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... The client also shows who is making noise too.
17:13:24 <cwebber2> but if there's a phone or SIP option that will work
17:13:26 <wilkie> that's great for scribing wow
17:13:28 <wseltzer> cwebber2, you can also join by phone
17:13:41 <cwebber2> (though hopefully there's a SIP option for international users who are also concerned about such things?)
17:14:02 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... In the meeting I had, the host was not in the meeting, but our team contact will be our host and will have more control over the call.
17:14:04 <AnnB> wseltzer, if you guys need help figuring out some of these questions, I could ask our WebEx SMEs to help
17:14:18 <AnnB> of course, I presume Cisco is helping you
17:14:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... There is still a lot of mystery in the setup.  As chair I wish I had more information.
17:14:43 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... Moving on
17:14:56 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: Review Actions
17:14:59 <elf-pavlik> action-58
17:14:59 <trackbot> action-58 -- Pavlik elf to Setup tracking of candidate demos which showcase User Stories implementations -- due 2015-06-02 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:14:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/58
17:15:05 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr#proposed-implementations
17:15:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: there is one activity marked as pending review by elf-pavlik
17:15:14 <elf-pavlik> close action-58
17:15:14 <trackbot> Closed action-58.
17:15:24 <tantek> elf-pavlik, was that part of your personal to-do items in Tracker?
17:15:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... elf just closed and has completed this action.
17:15:42 <elf-pavlik> i find it very relevant to the work here
17:15:46 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/open
17:16:07 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... Not going to go through open actions 1 by 1.  Does anyone want to declare victory on any of those?
17:16:09 <tantek> elf-pavlik, relevant to work here is insufficient, it must require involvement by the group, not just a personal action that's realted
17:16:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... Hearing none, lets move on.
17:16:16 <tantek> q+
17:16:24 <Arnaud> ack tantek
17:17:16 <elf-pavlik> how to encourage collaboration on actions among group participants?
17:17:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: one thing that was discussed in IRC relating to action items, I would like to bring up using tracker for personal items.  I suggest not cluttering tracker for personal items and only use it for actions that require the groups attention
17:17:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I wanted to raise that for clarification and to help minize time used
17:18:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: I totally support what tantek said. I realized a lot of the open actions are assigned to elf-pavlik.  These actions should be assigned during meetings and not be used for own personal todo list.
17:18:24 <elf-pavlik> roger!
17:18:35 <elf-pavlik> i'll move them by next week
17:18:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: I agree, actions in tracker are actions assigned by the group
17:18:48 <tantek> thanks elf-pavlik
17:18:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: lets move on to raised issues.
17:19:18 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I believe we discussed this issue (issue-43) last week, why is it still open?
17:19:24 <bblfish_> issue-43?
17:19:24 <trackbot> issue-43 -- What if anything should as2 say about i-json? per https://www.w3.org/wiki/socialwg/2015-05-26#i-json_discussion -- raised
17:19:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/43
17:19:31 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: lacking a consensus last week, we left it raised.
17:19:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: we had a short discussion last week.  Are we in any better position this week?
17:20:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: james was strongly against it and a group of us supported him as it is an editor issue
17:20:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: existing software may not be able to produce ijson but I wish in issues like this we were a lot more clear about how we raise issues.
17:21:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... someone should make a proposal that actually suggests a resolution, or a yes no answer
17:21:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i agree, if you want to raise an issue, it should be to point out a blocker or you are stuck
17:21:54 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: based on that criteria, we should reject this
17:22:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: if someone feels we should do something about ijson they should raise as a new issue
17:22:27 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i feel it should come with a use-case too
17:22:43 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Close ISSUE-43 as is, if anyone has a specific suggestion/proposal, they should raise a new issue explaining what it is, along with a use case
17:23:03 <tantek> +1
17:23:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:23:09 <cwebber2> +1
17:23:10 <aaronpk> +1
17:23:10 <elf-pavlik> +1
17:23:18 <evanpro> +1
17:23:23 <elf-pavlik> http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-05-26/line/1432665126058
17:23:24 <rhiaro> +1
17:23:26 <AnnB> abstains
17:23:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: who raised this issue? also annoying when tracker does not have that data
17:23:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I will call it resolved
17:23:48 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-43 as is, if anyone has a specific suggestion/proposal, they should raise a new issue explaining what it is, along with a use case
17:23:53 <AnnB> ben_thatmustbeme++
17:23:55 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme has 75 karma
17:23:56 <wseltzer> trackbot, close issue-43
17:23:56 <trackbot> Closed issue-43.
17:24:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: no other issues pending review
17:24:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... not going to tackle open issues now, i suggest moving forward for now
17:24:35 <ben_thatmustbeme> Topic: social syntax
17:25:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: James is not on the call but he has updated the draft and sent the link tot he working group and suggest we just republish a new working draft
17:25:13 <Zakim> +Sandro
17:25:33 <evanpro> q+
17:25:43 <tantek> q+ to raise issue about removed examples - I don't think that edit reflects group consensus
17:25:48 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... He thinks that we have made significant progress and should publish it.   It is just a way to communicate to the world what we are doing.  and try to get broader attention to the draft
17:25:57 <Zakim> -tsyesika_
17:26:08 <wseltzer> zakim, mute sandro
17:26:08 <Zakim> Sandro should now be muted
17:26:12 <Arnaud> ack evanpro
17:26:13 <tantek> zakim, who is noisy?
17:26:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... Either people are happy to make the decision now, we can proceed, or we can take a week to prcoeed
17:26:15 <wseltzer> zakim, unmute sandro
17:26:15 <Zakim> Sandro should no longer be muted
17:26:22 <Zakim> +??P14
17:26:25 <tsyesika_> Zakim, ??P14 is me
17:26:25 <Zakim> +tsyesika_; got it
17:26:29 <tsyesika_> Zakim, mute me
17:26:29 <Zakim> tsyesika_ should now be muted
17:26:39 <Zakim> tantek, listening for 20 seconds I heard sound from the following: evanpro (96%)
17:26:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> evanpro: I think it makes sense to take some time to review, but i think about a week is enough time to review
17:26:53 <Arnaud> ack tantek
17:26:53 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to raise issue about removed examples - I don't think that edit reflects group consensus
17:27:57 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/121
17:28:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: I agree, there has be a lot of substantial edits, and we should update but the one concern i have is that he made a pretty big edit removing a lot of examples in syntaxes and i object to that edit
17:28:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I think the more people have various ways of approaching it, the better.  He believes it is better to not have incorrect examples then to have some incorrect examples.
17:28:45 <rhiaro> but he removed the correct ones too
17:28:50 <elf-pavlik> action-26
17:28:50 <trackbot> action-26 -- Tantek Çelik to Review microformats examples in AS2.0 specs -- due 2015-03-17 -- OPEN
17:28:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/26
17:28:55 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: he doesn't know microformats enough that he could correct them
17:29:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: he could have easily put warning label that noted ones that have not been reviewed.  Perhaps a seperate document that shows all the exmples of various formats
17:29:47 <elf-pavlik> +1 sperate document for all non JSON(-LD) examples
17:29:56 <ben_thatmustbeme> what happened
17:30:07 <ben_thatmustbeme> nevermind
17:30:18 <elf-pavlik> action-38
17:30:18 <trackbot> action-38 -- Evan Prodromou to Convert social api requirements to 2-10 user stories of 3-5 sentences each -- due 2015-02-10 -- CLOSED
17:30:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/38
17:30:32 <tantek> q?
17:30:42 <rhiaro> I agree we shouldn't remove them altogether
17:30:43 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: the action for me on fixing the examples, they are getting incrementally getting completed. but i was hoping to continue and they have instead been all removed
17:30:57 <elf-pavlik> action-34
17:30:57 <trackbot> action-34 -- Pavlik elf to add explaination to the spec about multiple serializations used in examples -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
17:30:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/34
17:31:34 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: i do think removing them in the name of not having them be incorrect suggests an implicit decision that we are more likely to remove microformats, which we have not decided
17:32:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: anyone else? otherwise the plan is take some time to review and give everyone a week to review
17:32:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I was delighted to hear the w3c has come up with a tool to automate publishing
17:32:47 <wseltzer> -> https://github.com/w3c/echidna/wiki/How-to-use-Echidna Echidna, automatic publication system
17:33:09 <wseltzer> q+
17:33:10 <tantek> q+ to make a proposal to help move forward with AS2 publication
17:33:12 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... does all the validation, sends emails, etc.  but does require some preconfiguration.  We will need help of team contacts for this
17:33:18 <Arnaud> ack wseltzer
17:33:50 <Arnaud> ack tantek
17:33:50 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to make a proposal to help move forward with AS2 publication
17:33:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> wseltzer: i just put a link in the chat to the automatic publication process, but needs a group decision to migrate to it first
17:34:29 <tantek> PROPOSAL: revert change that removed microformats examples, and add a warning e.g. "This example needs review." to any microformats examples that have not been verified/fixed per action 26. Also others are welcome to help with action 26!
17:34:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i wanted to raise the concern forward to revert the change that removed the examples and put in a warning on nonreviewed parts
17:34:56 <rhiaro> +1
17:34:56 <aaronpk> +1
17:34:58 <wilkie> +1
17:35:00 <tsyesika_> +1
17:35:01 <elf-pavlik> 0
17:35:04 <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:35:05 <evanpro> +1
17:35:28 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: revert change that removed microformats examples, and add a warning e.g. "This example needs review." to any microformats examples that have not been verified/fixed per action 26. Also others are welcome to help with action 26!
17:35:46 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: of course james is not here and he has to do the work
17:35:49 <elf-pavlik> tantek, can you make PR with rever and adding those warnings?
17:36:06 <tantek> elf-pavlik: no, don't have time for that - jasnell can do a revert
17:36:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... this is why we have the approve the minutes from the last week, to allow people to object to the previous weeks proposals that they were not there for
17:36:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: I agree if he were here I do believe he would -1 this, but it should fall the the chairs to compell the editor to make the change needed
17:37:04 <cwebber2> 0
17:37:08 <cwebber2> I vote late ;)
17:37:20 <cwebber2> I think jasnell's feedback is valuable on this
17:37:53 <tantek> cwebber2: agreed - hence why I discussed with him first
17:38:10 <tantek> but I think we came to understand and agree to disagree :/
17:38:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: there was an email thread started after F2F in paris.  Sandro raised a question on correcting vocabulary of Activity streams.
17:39:01 <aaronpk> i liked sandro's suggestion!
17:39:07 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... James is not here, I was hoping to make progress on this.  I just want to make sure this issue doesn't go away
17:39:25 <elf-pavlik> some toughts on API Operations vs. Social Activities https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/issues/12
17:39:47 <tantek> zakim, mute me
17:39:47 <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
17:39:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I have asked sandro to raise this issue sooner rather than later.  There was one question from james of what this has to do with activity streams, and not the protocol?
17:40:56 <tantek> but is IoT actually "social web"?
17:41:03 <tantek> I think this may go beyond our charter scope
17:41:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: activity streams becomes the protocol with activitypump, which is what brought it to my attention, but even without that, its framed in terms of things having happened.  which makes perfect sense in terms of news, but odd when moving to other applications like internet of things.  You can either it as the light turned on, or there is a state change and the light is now on.   The model of "the state changed to this" becomes messy when dealing
17:41:33 <ben_thatmustbeme>  with a thermometer for example
17:41:33 <tantek> thermometers aren't "social" :P
17:41:46 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: we'll have to take this back on when james is back on.
17:41:46 <Zakim> -tsyesika_
17:41:48 <tantek> q+ could we base this discussion on people and not things?
17:41:55 <tantek> q+ to say could we base this discussion on people and not things?
17:42:00 <Arnaud> ack tantek
17:42:02 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to say could we base this discussion on people and not things?
17:42:27 <Zakim> +??P14
17:42:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... that was just one specific example, though not social, i could come up with one.
17:42:30 <AnnB> I agree @tantek that IOT is not 'social'. But I wonder if these concepts apply to how we (enterprise) want to use social for workflow management
17:42:37 <tsyesika_> Zakim, ??P14 is me
17:42:37 <Zakim> +tsyesika_; got it
17:42:39 <tsyesika_> Zakim, mute me
17:42:39 <Zakim> tsyesika_ should now be muted
17:43:02 <Guest83> Guest83 has joined #social
17:43:15 <tsyesika_> AnnB: indeed
17:43:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: i think there is some merit to seperating it to "here is a list of posts" vs "here is how to CRUD posts"
17:43:47 <bengo> :)
17:44:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: do you check in at a location then check out? or just withdraw a check in? AS2 isn't clear on modeling these things.
17:44:15 <elf-pavlik> sandro, could you add it to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/More_user_stories ?
17:44:29 <aaronpk> i would "check out" of a location by updating my checkin post with an end date
17:44:50 <elf-pavlik> or use for illustrating this topic one of existing stories https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Sorting_user_stories
17:44:53 <AnnB> q+
17:45:40 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: is that really social web or are you just treating that phone as a stream of information.  My general request is that we try to avoid scope-creep in to internet of things.  There are cases where it does occur like "listens" or "scrobbles"  and I'd like to stick to examples like that and showing off exmples on sites like "last.fm has this"
17:45:59 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro: for example what about deleting a post? is that a new post or just removing the existing post?
17:46:13 <sandro> elf-pavlik, no this doesn;'t need any new user stories
17:46:14 <Arnaud> ack AnnB
17:46:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: i think we should stop here, but this is a significant issue that we should look in to quickly before we move on too far
17:46:34 <elf-pavlik> sandro, "or use for illustrating this topic one of existing stories https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Sorting_user_stories"
17:46:44 <tantek> re: deleting a post - it's both a protocol for doing so (part of CRUD), but can and should also be indicated at the permalink of that post. see http://indiewebcamp.com/deleted for current thinking/solutions for that
17:46:57 <elf-pavlik> sandro, FYI https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr#proposed-implementations
17:47:25 <ben_thatmustbeme> AnnB: i agree with tantek on the scope-creep issue, but we in industry are interested in the activity management. is that outside of the scope?
17:47:40 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: I think as long as a person is doing it, its within our scope?
17:47:59 <bengo> I don't know how q+ works or the rules of teleconf, but if there are more folks than usual on here this may be a good time to share something I've been working on: http://livefyre.github.io/activity-vocabulary/ for the purposes of using like https://github.com/gobengo/dom-activity
17:48:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: its really just a matter of how we represent, its not a question of it being not able to be represented, just how
17:48:02 <tantek> now whether it should be in v1 or not - that's a different question - hence the user-stories focus
17:48:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: Social Syntax test suite
17:49:05 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: not going to say much, just wanted to point out we have a repo set up and I noticed there has not been any activity at all.  IBM put a lot of time in to it, so I would like to encourage WG members to step up and getting involved with it.
17:49:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... I don't know if anyone has anything else to say on this
17:49:34 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: social API
17:49:53 <wseltzer> q+ ben_thatmustbeme
17:49:58 <tantek> Zakim, mute me
17:49:58 <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
17:50:01 <tantek> q?
17:50:27 <Arnaud> https://github.com/w3c/activitystreams-testing
17:50:31 <AnnB> q+
17:50:34 <wseltzer> q- ben_thatmustbeme
17:50:47 <Loqi> it'll be ok
17:50:53 <Arnaud> ack AnnB
17:51:19 <elf-pavlik> lets take Follow a Person vs. Subscribe to a Feed to async (github)
17:51:26 <elf-pavlik> sorry, trying skype today but it doesn't help :(
17:51:27 <evanpro> elf-pavlik++
17:51:29 <Loqi> elf-pavlik has 27 karma
17:51:30 <Loqi> it'll be ok
17:51:32 <evanpro> Seems fair here
17:51:48 <tantek> no objection
17:51:48 <evanpro> q+
17:51:53 <tantek> q?
17:51:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: does anyone have anything to say about the social API point
17:51:54 <Arnaud> ack evanpro
17:51:58 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Subscribe
17:52:48 <ben_thatmustbeme> evanpro: I think elf is trying to clarify establishing a relationship of say "following a person" vs "following a feed"  but perhaps we can take this issue to github repo for activity streams
17:53:06 <ben_thatmustbeme> TOPIC: coordination with IG
17:53:30 <melvster1> in implementing SWAT0 it was confusing what following meant, it would be good to have that clarified
17:53:41 <elf-pavlik> melvster1++
17:53:43 <Loqi> melvster1 has 2 karma
17:53:44 <tantek> +1 on merging IRC channels. Telcon topics take precedence in the channel.
17:53:48 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: AnnB asked about merging IRC channels, the concern is congestion during meetings
17:54:04 <elf-pavlik> +1 merge IRC channels
17:54:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> AnnB: It has come up informally here and there, but not everyone has weighed in on this issue
17:54:14 <tantek> q+ to note we already had a resolution ages ago to use #social for both, but then somehow that got reverted due to Zakim limitations or something.
17:54:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... it does seem to me and the IG that it would be valueable to merge the channels.  during IG meetings it inhibits the WG from chatting at that time
17:55:03 <AdamB> were there issues with patent policy and also tracking of actions, meetings etc?
17:55:21 <tantek> no
17:55:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... my alternative suggesting was to keep the IG channel for only meetings, but didn't want to just move everyone over here without WG approval
17:55:34 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: was there an issue with trackbot?
17:55:36 <elf-pavlik> we can try just moving and if people find 1h weekly call an issue we can move calls to #socialig as needed
17:55:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> AnnB: this becomes moot if we are moving tracking to github
17:56:03 <tantek> is there a list of all resolutions?
17:56:17 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: not sure I agree, but if the IG keeps meeting on their own channel that isn't an issue.
17:56:32 <tantek> zakim, unmute me
17:56:32 <Zakim> tantek should no longer be muted
17:56:36 <cwebber2> I'm fine with it
17:56:37 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... How do people feel on this
17:56:47 <wseltzer> q+ to note IP issues on "contribution"
17:56:47 <elf-pavlik> +1 merge IRC channels (adjust use of two as needed if problems appear)
17:56:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: we had this conversation already and why is it coming up again?
17:57:02 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:57:15 <tantek> q-
17:57:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... we hit issues and they hit an issue and just stayed on their own channel
17:57:33 <Arnaud> ack wseltzer
17:57:33 <Zakim> wseltzer, you wanted to note IP issues on "contribution"
17:57:46 <evanpro> "As they say in Portland..." ha!
17:57:54 <Zakim> -tsyesika_
17:57:59 <wilkie> I'm going to be in portland for a week in June! I've never been there before :)
17:58:09 <AnnB> q+
17:58:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> wseltzer: just a reminder that the question of who can participate in discussions is seperate from the need to keep the patent commitments clear.  Contributions to the spec need to be limited to those who are members or invited experts.
17:59:00 <Arnaud> ack AnnB
17:59:02 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: I believe this is no different than contributions from the mailing list
17:59:25 <tantek> isn't this orthogonal becauase anyone can be on IRC on any channel?
17:59:32 <AnnB> PROPOSE: let IG members hang out in WG #social channel; but scribe the IG meetings in #socialig
17:59:41 <cwebber2> no objection
17:59:44 <ben_thatmustbeme> AnnB: wseltzer, we thought that might be fine since all of our member in the IG are invited experts, but that is different
17:59:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: does anyone object
18:00:06 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: let IG members hang out in WG #social channel; but scribe the IG meetings in #socialig
18:00:20 <tantek> but ok
18:00:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> Arnaud: this is consistent with previous issue on it
18:00:32 <Zakim> -dromasca
18:00:38 <Zakim> -bblfish
18:00:39 <Zakim> -AdamB
18:00:40 <Zakim> -aaronpk
18:00:41 <Zakim> -rhiaro
18:00:43 <Zakim> -ben_thatmustbeme
18:00:45 <Zakim> -elf-pavlik
18:00:48 <evanpro> Thanks Arnaud !
18:00:48 <Zakim> -Arnaud
18:00:50 <wilkie> thanks
18:00:50 <Zakim> -Wendy
18:00:53 <Zakim> -evanpro
18:00:58 <cwebber2> ben_thatmustbeme++
18:01:01 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme has 76 karma
18:01:03 <cwebber2> thanks for scribing
18:01:10 <Zakim> -cwebber2
18:01:10 <aaronpk> ben_thatmustbeme: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Scribes
18:01:10 <wilkie> ben_thatmustbeme++
18:01:13 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme has 77 karma
18:01:18 <ben_thatmustbeme> :) just glad my audio didn't cut out this time, it has in the past
18:01:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> which is why i hesitate to scribe
18:02:23 <Arnaud> it's too bad because you're a great scribe :)
18:02:58 <ben_thatmustbeme> I used to practice speed typing by trying to transcribe songs in real time
18:03:00 <Zakim> -Sandro
18:03:04 <Zakim> -tantek
18:03:06 <Zakim> -Ann
18:03:10 <tantek> ben_thatmustbeme++ for scribing!
18:03:12 <Loqi> ben_thatmustbeme has 78 karma
18:03:13 <bengo> if there are more folks than usual on here this may be a good time to share something I've been working on: http://livefyre.github.io/activity-vocabulary/ for the purposes of using like https://github.com/gobengo/dom-activity.
18:03:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> I believe you need to end the meeting before i get notes
18:03:17 <Zakim> -wilkie
18:03:18 <Zakim> T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
18:03:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, +1.401.305.aaaa, ben_thatmustbeme, Wendy, elf-pavlik, aaronpk, +1.773.614.aabb, tantek, +1.514.554.aacc, evanpro, dromasca, cwebber2, rhiaro, wilkie, Ann,
18:03:18 <Zakim> ... +1.314.777.aadd, bblfish, AdamB, tsyesika_, Sandro
18:03:19 <AnnB> wow, Ben .. cool
18:03:23 <bengo> It's real-world extension of current draft of AS Vocabulary
18:03:38 <ben_thatmustbeme> s/notes/minutes
18:03:39 <Arnaud> songs in real time? that sounds like a challenge indeed!
18:04:08 <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
18:04:08 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:04:08 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
18:04:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:04:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/02-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:04:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:04:17 <RRSAgent> I see no action items