IRC log of aria-apg on 2015-06-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:05:03 [RRSAgent]
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17:05:03 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-aria-apg-irc
17:05:05 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:05:05 [Zakim]
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17:05:07 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:05:07 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
17:05:08 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:05:08 [trackbot]
Date: 01 June 2015
17:05:41 [jamesn]
s/Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: APG TF/
17:05:45 [jamesn]
regrets+ Leonie
17:07:30 [annabbott]
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17:08:06 [jamesn]
present+ Ian
17:08:11 [jamesn]
present+ James
17:08:16 [jamesn]
present+ Matt
17:08:20 [jamesn]
present+ Ann
17:08:39 [mattking]
Agenda+ New example development planning wiki page (James)
17:08:41 [mattking]
Agenda+ Listbox pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#Listbox
17:08:42 [mattking]
Agenda+ menubutton pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#menubutton
17:09:14 [jamesn]
scribe: jamesn
17:09:23 [jamesn]
zakim, take up item 1
17:09:23 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "New example development planning wiki page (James)" taken up [from mattking]
17:09:26 [jamesn]
zakim, take up item 2
17:09:26 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Listbox pattern review https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#Listbox" taken up [from mattking]
17:14:34 [bgaraventa1979]
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present+ Bryan_Garaventa
17:15:24 [mattking]
Listbox pattern bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28085
17:16:41 [jamesn]
JN: we looked at some of it
17:16:50 [jamesn]
MK: Did something with the checkboxes section
17:17:23 [jamesn]
MK: It was worded very differently before.
17:17:35 [jamesn]
MK": was very different before and wanted people to take a look atg it
17:18:06 [jamesn]
MK: there was previosuly a bunch of text explaining the selection style in listboxes where you see a check next to list items
17:18:41 [jamesn]
MK: It was written in such a way that it was confusing in that it made it sound like theyu were checkboxes not options
17:21:52 [jamesn]
http://www.jqueryrain.com/?Bxwy2bPt
17:25:33 [jamesn]
JN: I guess this is a combobox not a listbox
17:25:47 [jamesn]
JN: sorry for derailing the topic...
17:28:08 [jamesn]
MK: Is the description ok? and is the structure ok?
17:30:21 [jamesn]
AA: should we state what to do if you need interactive elements in a listbox
17:30:32 [jamesn]
MK: don't have a widget
17:31:27 [jamesn]
JN: we use F2 to switch to an interactive mode for the option
17:32:20 [jamesn]
BG: doesn't talk about aria-activedescendent working for focus on listboxes
17:40:10 [mattking]
If focus is set to the container with role listbox then aria-activedescendant must be used to refer to the option that has the visual focus indicator.
17:43:33 [jamesn]
MK: I think we need a section on navigation between widgets like we have on navigation within widgets
17:50:43 [jamesn]
BG: in the case where you havea single select list of options which have checkable states such as in settings dialogs. Same concept as in tree
17:53:26 [jamesn]
so aria-checked is simply a state of an option but doesn't indicate anything about the selection of the listbox
17:55:27 [jamesn]
MK: In a multi-select if you use selection model 1 then we should stick to aria-selected to mean selected
17:55:41 [jamesn]
BG: yes i think they should be kept seperate
17:56:08 [jamesn]
MK: If you are displaying a checkbox then perhaps a dev would think you should just set aria-checked
17:56:34 [jamesn]
BG: actually works better in IE. Wouldn't necessarially have the same functionality as in the design pattern
17:56:49 [jamesn]
BG: they should be treated seperately
17:57:19 [jamesn]
MK: I don't think there are very many people who get hung up on a screen reader saying checked or selected
17:57:59 [jamesn]
BG: if it conveys that muliple items are checked or selected. The weird thing for developers will be the implementation details.
17:58:05 [jamesn]
MK: on the same page there
17:58:27 [jamesn]
MK: what i am wondering is whether there should be any mention of aria-checked here
17:59:25 [jamesn]
JN: what we are saying is that it is good as it is
17:59:47 [jamesn]
MK: avoiding aria-checked is a good thing as it adds to confusion
18:00:01 [jamesn]
BG: the reason I bring it up is that i have seen devs do this
18:00:16 [jamesn]
BG: I have seen themm stuickl a real checkbox inside the option element
18:04:55 [jamesn]
JN: perhaps worry more about ahving a good exmaple with checkboxes that does it correctly
18:31:12 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:31:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:31:17 [jamesn]
zakim, please part
18:31:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:31:22 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:31:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/01-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn