15:57:14 RRSAgent has joined #auto 15:57:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-auto-irc 15:57:16 RRSAgent, make logs ab 15:57:16 Zakim has joined #auto 15:57:18 Zakim, this will be 15:57:18 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 15:57:19 Meeting: Automotive Working Group Teleconference 15:57:19 Date: 19 May 2015 15:58:36 QingAn has joined #Auto 16:04:19 zakim, who is here? 16:04:19 sorry, kaz, I don't know what conference this is 16:04:21 Present+ Paul Boyes, Greg Brannon, Kaz Ashimura, Peter Wenzell, Wonsuk Lee, Qing An, Ted Guild, Adam Crofts 16:04:21 On IRC I see QingAn, Zakim, RRSAgent, wonsuk, kaz, ted, trackbot 16:05:08 Present+ Kevin Gavigan 16:05:40 Present+ Dave Jensen 16:05:42 rrsagent, who is here? 16:05:42 I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'who is here' 16:05:48 zakim, who is here? 16:05:48 sorry, kaz, I don't know what conference this is 16:05:50 On IRC I see QingAn, Zakim, RRSAgent, wonsuk, kaz, ted, trackbot 16:06:01 rrsagent, make log public 16:06:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:06:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-auto-minutes.html kaz 16:06:10 -> http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-auto-minutes.html Raw minutes from previous meeting 16:06:14 Present+ Wonsuk_Lee 16:07:03 present - paul, adam, greg, dave, kevin, kaz, peter, qing, ted, wonsuk 16:07:05 paul: for agenda we have recap of Stuttgart, test framework, security TF 16:07:25 Paul has joined #auto 16:07:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:07:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-auto-minutes.html kaz 16:07:38 abramski has joined #auto 16:07:46 AdamCrofts has joined #auto 16:08:16 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015May/0022.html 16:08:30 paul: please fill in the survey regarding f2f 16:08:34 gbrannon has joined #auto 16:08:40 ... github repo has been cleaned up 16:08:46 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015May/0022.html 16:08:51 KevG has joined #auto 16:08:52 ... we had a call for editors and it has been answered 16:08:59 Chair: Paul 16:09:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:09:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-auto-minutes.html kaz 16:09:49 djensen47 has joined #auto 16:10:16 ... editors: wonsuk lee, qing an, adam crofts, kevin gavigan, and pending is justin 16:11:14 ... we also discussed forming a security tf which ted reported previously was being held up 16:11:45 topic: testing update 16:11:47 ted: resolved internal concern and hoped to have a draft cfp for today but do not have it yet. i will produce by eob tomorrow 16:11:47 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015May/0022.html 16:12:03 paul: kaz, you wanted to report on testing 16:12:54 kaz: i got some feedback on webplatform testing from others like html5 wg practices 16:13:24 New approach: Implementation Report based onWeb Platform Testing, e.g., HTML5 http://w3c.github.io/test-results/html/details.html https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IKpt626qpPnMpiFP9kbkTZaQPj9LST6Awa8d9zK7WCU/edit#slide=id.p Conventional approach: Implementation Report by hand, e.g., SCXML http://www.w3.org/Voice/2013/scxml-irp/ 16:13:33 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015May/0024.html kaz's write up 16:13:46 ... we should follow html5's practices 16:14:53 ... as we approach candidate recommendation phase we'll need reference implementations and being able to produce such a report based on test suite would be desireable 16:14:54 -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IKpt626qpPnMpiFP9kbkTZaQPj9LST6Awa8d9zK7WCU/edit#slide=id.p 16:15:14 ... please see mike's slide deck, starting from page 4 16:16:17 ... page 8, web-platform-tests testsuite covers 60 specs and includes 3700 test files and we have 210,000 test results captured 16:16:31 ... it is github based, uses testharness.js 16:17:04 ... it runs on w3c-test.org site directly and one can also choose to use a local runner 16:17:22 ... page 12 gives a sample js of calling testharness 16:17:36 ... page 13 showing results 16:18:18 ... one can run wptserve to run tests locally on a python web server 16:18:49 ... it can run fully on the server if people prefer 16:19:13 s/security tf/security and privacy tf/ 16:20:14 kaz: in summary, w3c provides an online testing framework and provides people the ability to run their own locally as well 16:20:28 ... my recommendation is to go this direction 16:20:49 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015May/0024.html 16:21:11 -> http://www.w3.org/Voice/2013/scxml-irp/#tests Sample implementation report 16:21:50 kaz: we can generate this document manually from the information produced by running the framework 16:22:07 ... we need to clarify all the features based on the spec and define them as assertions 16:23:02 paul: thank you, any comments or questions? 16:23:59 -> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests other specs' tests 16:24:37 Couldn't get to "unmute" fast enough. No comments yet. 16:24:53 paul: i want people to look at this further 16:26:03 adam: this looks reasonable to me but wonder how people will run this themselves on their platforms 16:26:15 kaz: we'll need to clarify what should be checked 16:27:11 adam: if we're just testing the interface. that might be the minimum needed for w3c rec track but group might want to check data coming back out 16:27:33 paul: you can't test an interface without testing the returns 16:28:11 q+ 16:28:39 q- 16:28:49 kaz: it is more for testing the specification not implementations 16:29:16 ... there are people looking to extend this for product conformance as well 16:30:01 dave: w3c doesn't currently have any framework for testing the api itself? 16:31:04 [kaz, should i see if denis or mike is available? he helped code this and may be able to give more details about extensibility] 16:31:06 mocha and jasmine 16:32:17 wonsuk: device api wg made a sensor api. do we need to check how they made their test cases using this platform? 16:32:49 ... it would be good to see how they are doing it given the similarities 16:33:16 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/ 16:33:34 ... i can take an action item to look into how they tested their api 16:34:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:34:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-auto-minutes.html kaz 16:34:44 denis ah-kang, mike smith and robin berjeron from w3c 16:35:00 s/berjeron/berjon/ 16:36:08 dominique hazel-massieux - re device api tests 16:37:42 action: ted to work with Kaz and other W3C Team mates, e.g., Denis, Mike, robin and Dom, on how to use the Web Testing Platform 16:37:42 Created ACTION-7 - Work with kaz and other w3c team mates, e.g., denis, mike, robin and dom, on how to use the web testing platform [on Ted Guild - due 2015-05-26]. 16:38:15 trackbot, status 16:39:53 action wonsuk to find out how Device API WG is handling testing of sensors API 16:39:53 Created ACTION-8 - Find out how device api wg is handling testing of sensors api [on WonSuk Lee - due 2015-05-26]. 16:40:13 action-8 due 2015-07-01 16:40:13 Set action-8 Find out how device api wg is handling testing of sensors api due date to 2015-07-01. 16:40:54 present+ Adam Abramski 16:41:15 paul: we have been collecting some comments in github repo on the spec 16:41:23 ... some today from peter 16:41:48 https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues 16:42:59 paul: as luck would have it we have all the people who raised comments on the call 16:43:17 dave: for-in is used incorrectly 16:43:18 https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/1 16:43:50 dave: it can be fixed easily, see sample code 16:44:34 Present now - Paul_Boyes, Adam_Abramski, Greg_Brannon, Dave_Jensen, Kevin_Gavigan, Kaz, Peter_Winzell, Qing_An, Ted_Guild, Wonsu_Lee 16:47:57 paul: as an administrative question should people submit pull requests? 16:48:23 ted: sure, first editors should add themselves as editors on the specs themselves. group created so they can handle pr 16:48:57 dave: the other i started discussion on ml, pointing back to old issue on bg repo about api design 16:49:28 ... the readme doesn't have much content and pointers on how to get people more involved 16:49:42 ... code guidelines, tools used, participation guidelines 16:50:04 ... not sure where we want to organize all that, perhaps just a link to a wiki 16:50:19 wonsuk: it is a good idea 16:50:38 paul: qing an can you go over your comments? 16:51:38 qing: @@@ 16:51:44 ... another is for the discovery api 16:51:45 https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/6 16:54:00 qing: we need to modify the current use case section for @@@ 16:54:22 ... i think there are some problems in the zoneposition interface 16:54:23 https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/9 16:57:22 @@@: we need to be clearer in various areas, is there subscribe/unsubscribe features for callbacks for instance? 16:58:41 ... should we specify the data return values as well? 16:58:50 dave: yes and also how the data is specified 16:59:14 ... on the auto bg (issues list) there were two comments made on the api 17:00:16 ... one was about specifying the data returned. how is the data specified? is it suppose to be an interface or a dictionary? 17:00:52 https://github.com/w3c/automotive-bg/issues/49 17:01:04 https://github.com/w3c/automotive-bg/issues/49 17:02:48 ted: iirc the reaction kevron had is the various oem data points are going to vary too widely 17:03:11 ... we had a call with them but not sure it was minuted 17:03:45 paul: i will need to swap back in on that. we are running out of time on this call 17:04:05 ... it might be worth having a breakout call on issues alone 17:10:29 [scheduling discussion] 17:13:33 paul: i'll send something on timing for a semi-regular friday call, early my time since that is good for other 17:18:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:18:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-auto-minutes.html ted 17:18:57 rrsagent, make log public 17:18:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:18:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-auto-minutes.html ted 17:20:17 wonsuk has joined #auto 17:24:15 QingAn, i had trouble hearing you earlier. can you scroll up and let me know what you said when i only captured @@? 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