15:00:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
15:00:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/06-hcls-irc
15:00:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcls
15:00:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HCLS
15:00:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
15:00:38 <trackbot> Date: 06 May 2015
15:00:59 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started
15:01:06 <Zakim> +DBooth
15:03:12 <Lloyd> Lloyd has joined #HCLS
15:03:40 <Lloyd> Call running long.  Should be on in ~2min
15:03:44 <dbooth> ok
15:03:54 <rhausam> rhausam has joined #HCLS
15:05:16 <Zakim> + +1.801.810.aaaa
15:05:29 <dbooth> zakim, aaaa is rhausam
15:05:29 <Zakim> +rhausam; got it
15:06:29 <Zakim> +ericP
15:08:16 <dbooth> Topic: Blank nodes and OWL reasoning: inherent problem or tool limitation?
15:08:36 <dbooth> My followup with Bijan Parsia: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2015May/0001.html
15:10:11 <dbooth> dbooth: Could also leave the blank nodes in, and blindly skolemize *all* blank nodes.
15:10:41 <dbooth> ... Grahame is concerned about the burden that turning these into URIs would place on RDF generation.
15:12:03 <rhausam> can you state again what Bijan's proposal was?  where the functional property was to be used?
15:12:26 <dbooth> Rob, Bijan's reply: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2015May/0001.html
15:16:21 <dbooth> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/rdf.html
15:16:42 <dbooth> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/rdf.html#1.17.3.3.5
15:18:58 <dbooth> dbooth: We want to be able to infer that the blank node instance of fhir:Observation.code is  a loinc:54411-4;
15:19:27 <dbooth> ... based on fhir:Coding.system [ fhir:uri.value <http://loinc.org>] ; and fhir:Coding.code [ fhir:code.value "54411-4" ];
15:19:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:19:59 <Lloyd> zakim, ipcaller is lloyd
15:20:00 <Zakim> +lloyd; got it
15:22:23 <dbooth> lloyd: Linkage to a concept is a combination of fhir:Coding.system and fhir:Coding.code and sometimes fhir:Coding.version
15:23:12 <dbooth> lloyd: The version may or may not be indicated and may or may not be relevant.  Orthogonal issues.
15:23:22 <dbooth> ... Some say what the version is, some don't.
15:23:44 <dbooth> ... Plus version is a string, and there is not consistency in the string representation.
15:24:15 <dbooth> ... In some code systems the meaning can change between versions, and it is subjective whether you care about the meaning change between versions.
15:25:09 <dbooth> ... Ideally you would have the concept inferred from system, version and code.
15:25:36 <dbooth> ... And you'd have relationships between the concepts, and the version would have a fixed set of values.
15:26:33 <dbooth> ... If you have code x and version y, the version must be one of ten possibilities, so that if the concept is equivalent in all 10 versions, then you know what it is.
15:27:19 <dbooth> ... Some will assert LOINC changes meaning between versions; others say no.  Depends on how much you care about the details.
15:27:33 <dbooth> Rob: SNOMED is pretty well behaved.  ICD is not.
15:30:46 <dbooth> dbooth: Postpone deciding how to handle these blank nodes until eric has tried function and inverse function a bit more.
15:31:16 <dbooth> ACTION: Eric to try functional and inverse functional properties to see if they fix the blank node problem.
15:31:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Try functional and inverse functional properties to see if they fix the blank node problem. [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2015-05-13].
15:32:41 <dbooth> Topic: ISSUE-10: How to represent codeableconcept, coding and code? should all three be constraints on a common rdf type?
15:34:40 <dbooth> lloyd: Define a common concept for the three, then define three constraints.
15:35:04 <dbooth> dbooth: Need something in the instance for round tripping.
15:35:12 <dbooth> lloyd: Could be indicated in the type.
15:37:03 <dbooth> dbooth: We need to see three FHIR XML examples, with their corresponding RDF.
15:39:11 <dbooth> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/datatypes-examples.html#1.18.1.6
15:40:00 <dbooth>   <diagnosis>
15:40:00 <dbooth>     <coding>
15:40:00 <dbooth>       <system value="http://snomed.info/sct" />
15:40:00 <dbooth>       <code value="128045006:{363698007=56459004}" />
15:40:01 <dbooth>     </coding>
15:40:01 <dbooth>     <text value="Cellulitis of the foot" />
15:40:03 <dbooth>   </diagnosis>
15:41:28 <Lloyd> http://hl7.org/fhir/2015May/auditevent.html
15:43:18 <dbooth> lloyd: click UML and look at Event.  It has type CodeableConcept, subtype CodeableConcept, outcome code, and purposeOfEvent Coding.
15:43:53 <dbooth> ... When the type is only code, the system is already fixed.
15:44:54 <dbooth> http://hl7.org/fhir/2015May/auditevent-example.xml.html
15:45:10 <dbooth> that example always seeems to use system and code.
15:46:30 <ericP> AuditEvent/event/type is a codable concept
15:46:32 <dbooth> lloyd: starting with AuditEvent go to AuditEvent / event / type (CodeableConcept)
15:46:42 <ericP> AuditEvent/event/outcome is a code
15:46:54 <ericP> AuditEvent/source/type is a concept
15:47:51 <ericP> s/type is a concept/type is a coding/
15:47:52 <dbooth> s/concept/coding/
15:48:48 <dbooth> Topic: FHIR XML to RDF transformation
15:49:06 <ericP> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/FHIR#OWL_representation_of_FHIR_Schema fhir-rdf pipeline
15:49:48 <dbooth> ACTION: Lloyd to propose RDF versions of the above 3 FHIR XML examples
15:49:48 <trackbot> Error finding 'Lloyd'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>.
15:52:40 <ericP> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/C-CDA#Mapping_to_FHIR example of ShEx extension
15:52:43 <dbooth> eric: This page is about tooling that reads FHIR spec and writes XSLT, which translates FHIR XML to FHIR RDF.
15:53:21 <dbooth> ... And it generates ShEx also, for going back to FHIR XML.
15:54:46 <dbooth> ... The teal colored material in the last link is the ShEx extension
15:54:56 <ericP> -> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/blob/master/generic/fhir-shapes.shex#L2274 GenX for FHIR/RDF -> FHIR/XML
15:55:25 <dbooth> ... that converts ORIM RDF to FHIR RDF.
15:56:00 <dbooth> eric: Here's what it looks like in ShEx for FHIR RDF.
15:57:02 <dbooth> ... GenX instructions generate FHIR XML.
15:57:38 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2013/ShEx/FancyShExDemo?schemaURL=test/GenX/schema.shex&dataURL=test/Issue-pass-date.ttl demo of GenX
15:57:40 <dbooth> ... I've tried it on small pieces and it works.
15:57:55 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2013/ShEx/FancyShExDemo?schemaURL=test%2FGenX%2Fschema.shex&dataURL=test%2FIssue-pass-date.ttl&starting-nodes=%3CIssue1%3E&colorize=true
15:58:35 <dbooth> eric: in this example you have the schema with GenX instructions for creating DOM tree.
15:58:51 <dbooth> ... Then RDF in the middle.  Then validation info on the right.
15:59:08 <dbooth> ... Click popup there, under Validation messages.
16:00:44 <dbooth> ... ShEx approach is concise, though we might use the reference library instead of ShEx.
16:00:50 <dbooth> q+
16:01:23 <dbooth> lloyd: Reference libraries will end up being used by most supporters.  If we include anything else other than the ref libraries then implementers won't touch it.
16:01:43 <dbooth> ... We also want a single authoritative implementation that we've tested the hell out of.
16:02:06 <dbooth> ... But we could also have this out there.
16:02:52 <dbooth> ... Fine to let many flowers bloom, though we may not maintain them all, depending on bandwidth.
16:03:12 <dbooth> ack dbooth
16:03:58 <dbooth> dbooth: May be value in using ShEx initially to enable quicker trials and iteration.
16:04:25 <Zakim> -rhausam
16:05:09 <dbooth> dbooth: The quickest way to try it the better.
16:06:04 <dbooth> lloyd: I suspect that grahame has done some work on the ref impl, but not sure what.
16:06:33 <dbooth> ... Once we're comfortable that the conversions work and we like them, we can push it into the ref impls.
16:07:27 <dbooth> dbooth: should we start looking at a test suite?
16:08:00 <dbooth> eric: I'd like others to help on ShEx also, because it would give me more feedback on how useful it is.
16:08:46 <dbooth> dbooth: I'd like to help on ShEx approach.
16:08:52 <dbooth> my github: dbooth-boston
16:09:35 <dbooth> eric: Send me your github ID if you want to hack on the ShEx approach.
16:10:28 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
16:10:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see DBooth, ericP, lloyd
16:10:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see rhausam, Lloyd, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, TallTed, cloudcell_, trackbot, ericP
16:10:55 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
16:12:22 <Zakim> -ericP
16:12:23 <Zakim> -DBooth
16:12:34 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:12:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/06-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
16:14:50 <Zakim> -lloyd
16:14:51 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
16:14:51 <Zakim> Attendees were DBooth, +1.801.810.aaaa, rhausam, ericP, lloyd
16:15:03 <dbooth> Present: dbooth ericP lloyd rhausam
16:15:08 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:15:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/06-hcls-minutes.html dbooth